[Spoilers inclluding 7.0] My "True" Main Character Theory

I guess it's noticable that our Character is just there to play the role to take care of the dirty work and that's fine but who is the Main Character besides us? I theorized and came to a Conclusion, that I would like to share:

1.0: Louisoix Leveilleur (The Predecessor)
He came to Eorzea, founded the Circle of Knowing (later known as Scions of the 7th Dawn) and saved Eorzea

2.0 A Realm Reborn: The Twins (A New Dawn)
They came to Eorzea alongside the Player Character joined as active Members of the Scions of the 7th Dawn. Alphinaud takes part in the Adventures of the Scions (Main Story) and Alisaie discovers the Binding Coils of Bahamut (Raid)

3.0 Heavensward: Alphinaud Leveilleur (Blue Sky)
After the events of ARR Alphinaud had to grow as a Character and earn more Experience in Diplomatics and Politics

4.0 Stormblood: Alisaie Leveilleur (Red Sun)
Everytime when it came to take the Initiative Alisaie jumped into action and took the lead, she also was the last one who got pulled into our next Adventure.

5.0 Shadowbringers: Emet Selch (Dark Night)
That might be a surprise for many but Shadowbringers is full of surprises so let me explain: He was always true to us, he explained everything that matters to his mission and even offered cooperation if we pass his test. Now isn't the Crystal Exarch the main character? the thing is he lied to us and was making a mystery without any explaination(which funnily enough makes the Crystal Exarch the perfect character for FFXIII), meanwhile even Emet questioned that behavior and explained us things we didn't even knew about the Ascians goals and the best part is that Emet Selch's Explainations don't even contradict other Ascian's previous statements, but in the end we failed his test and his final message towards us is to remember

6.0 Endwalker: Venat (Full Moon)
coming back form our previous adventures we had alot of questions and many of our perceptions have been put into Question what we need are Answers, her Answers and it turns out that it was her Path all along to walk towards the end to bring hope.

7.0 Dawnsinger: Meteion (Dawn Encore)
This is just my Theory here since 7.0 will come out in 2024 and the time of this post is Friday the 13th, January 2023, which doesn't mean that I can't see the pattern, at the end Meteion said she wants to sing a new song.

While i agree that each expac has a deuteragonist and 1.0 the wol wasnt the most important I think youre somewhat downplaying the wols role as a protagonist.

My reading was always that the WoL was The One Main Character of ARR, and after that he starts playing the 'protagonist but not the hero' role for a while. Kinda like how Tidus might be the protagonist of FFX, but it's Yuna's story. Heavensward is Estinien's story, he's the guy that has all the development and goes through the personal journey and is the main crux of everything that goes on. Similarly, Stormblood is Lyse's story no matter how much people complain about her; she's the one that goes through the journey.

It stops being a plausible approach with Shadowbringers and Endwalker, which are much more ensemble pieces than anything.

They were - even in 1.0, it was clear the player's character was the main protagonist and that they were 'special'... but 1.0's original story was abruptly ended without resolution in favour of the '7th Umbral Era' story that concerned the formation of the Grand Companies and the fight against Nael to stop Dalamud's fall (Louisoix incidentally did not appear until this storyline), and ended up being cannibalized for ideas and concepts in ARR and beyond, but ARR continued having the player's character in the limelight, now eventually given the 'Warrior of Light' moniker. So 1.0 even the WoL/player's character was the true protagonist, symbolized by 'Derplander' in the FMV openings.

And as ShB showed and EW confirmed, the player's character really is 'special' in more ways than one, being not only Hydaelyn's champion and chosen defender of the world, they're the literal reincarnation of the Ancient Etheirysian Azem the Wanderer.. whose hat was pretty much exactly the same (travelling the world, meeting people, helping them with their problems and pretty much being amazing while they do it ;)).

So that fully underlines the player's character as being FFXIV's actual protagonist, despite the importance of others, the story revolves around them, and that is continuing even beyond the winding up of 'season 1'.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

While i agree that each expac has a deuteragonist and 1.0 the wol wasnt the most important I think youre somewhat downplaying the wols role as a protagonist.

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well I kinda looked at 1.0 surface level, I admit though again, what are really doing in the MSQ outside of killing bosses and going through dungeons? sometimes the MSQ nods to tomestones in some cutscenes but that's kinda it

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

My reading was always that the WoL was The One Main Character of ARR, and after that he starts playing the 'protagonist but not the hero' role for a while. Kinda like how Tidus might be the protagonist of FFX, but it's Yuna's story. Heavensward is Estinien's story, he's the guy that has all the development and goes through the personal journey and is the main crux of everything that goes on. Similarly, Stormblood is Lyse's story no matter how much people complain about her; she's the one that goes through the journey.

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but.. FFX was Tidus' Story ^^ it was Yuna's Pilgrimage, that's true. About ARR I also thought a long time that we were the Main Character but then I noticed who else was on the Ship/Chocobo Carriage.
Estinien wanted to kill himself in 5.3 and who stopped him aside of the Player? Alphinaud. Lyse is supposed to be the Crimson Liberator, that's true, but who had the Idea of crushing the Redshells and carried on after Ala Mhigo's Liberation? Alisaie. Lyse stayed in Ala Mhigo after the liberation and only came in the story for political reasons but she left the Scions and the Story carried on without her.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

It stops being a plausible approach with Shadowbringers and Endwalker, which are much more ensemble pieces than anything.

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I can refute the ensemble arguement with 2 facts: In Shadowbringers the Crystal Exarch planned only to bring us to the First, the Scions were only there because the Crystal Exarch was skilled enough to handle the magic properly and in Endwalker when we travelled to Elpis, we were alone.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

They were - even in 1.0, it was clear the player's character was the main protagonist and that they were 'special'... but 1.0's original story was abruptly ended without resolution in favour of the '7th Umbral Era' story that concerned the formation of the Grand Companies and the fight against Nael to stop Dalamud's fall (Louisoix incidentally did not appear until this storyline), and ended up being cannibalized for ideas and concepts in ARR and beyond, but ARR continued having the player's character in the limelight, now eventually given the 'Warrior of Light' moniker. So 1.0 even the WoL/player's character was the true protagonist, symbolized by 'Derplander' in the FMV openings.

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well the 1.0 Trailer kinda captured that early MMO feel, just some friends going to have an Adventure and then lights and story happens with no explaination, kinda like that it's big but really doesn't matter. I'd say Louisoix came a bit late to the Party but he was the one who saved us and saved the world as best as he could. though I wouldn't call it cannibalized looking 1.0 as a product it's rather more to say improved. and well to look at the player character as the main character of the story is really surface level.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

And as ShB showed and EW confirmed, the player's character really is 'special' in more ways than one, being not only Hydaelyn's champion and chosen defender of the world, they're the literal reincarnation of the Ancient Etheirysian Azem the Wanderer.. whose hat was pretty much exactly the same (travelling the world, meeting people, helping them with their problems and pretty much being amazing while they do it ;)).

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Well in ShB we failed Emet Selch's Test because Ardbert united with us too late, which got Emet Selch killed and in EW we witnessed Hydaelyn's Plan for the Planet to carry her hope towards the end with every step.
And about Azem, one could critique it as another player stand-in analog to write the Player in the Story and put the Player in some relation to another character. While True it's hard to pull off and how it is now it's well-ish done but when they show the unsundered Azem some people may be pissed off by the idea of being related to that Character. Or do you really wanna tell me that everyone will be related to some crazy @5$µ0/€ from an unsundered time? hmm I do not think so.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

So that fully underlines the player's character as being FFXIV's actual protagonist, despite the importance of others, the story revolves around them, and that is continuing even beyond the winding up of 'season 1'.

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well again.. what we do is to kill bosses, walk dungeons, watch cutscenes, finish questlines. That's all we do, Papalymo even commented on that, that we shouldn't get anymore involved with that kind of stuff because those responsibilities would get in the way of our adventuring

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

Well in ShB we failed Emet Selch's Test because Ardbert united with us too late, which got Emet Selch killed and in EW we witnessed Hydaelyn's Plan for the Planet to carry her hope towards the end with every step.

well again.. what we do is to kill bosses, walk dungeons, watch cutscenes, finish questlines. That's all we do, Papalymo even commented on that, that we shouldn't get anymore involved with that kind of stuff because those responsibilities would get in the way of our adventuring

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That is all vastly understating what we do. We-the-players watch cutscenes and finish questlines in a videogame; the Warrior of Light lives and experiences those events, going through great effort to save the world on multiple occasions. That isn't something to be dismissed as "all we do". And I doubt Papalymo remarked on us watching cutscenes - perhaps you could quote that?

Also, we failed Emet-Selch's test because Emet-Selch kept moving the goalposts, and in any case I don't see how failing an antagonist's so-called test makes them the main character and us irrelevant. If we weren't the main character, there wouldn't be a test in the first place.

And we don't just "witness" Hydaelyn's plan and hope, we ARE her plan and hope.


Edit to add: It's also misleading to say that we "got Emet-Selch killed" as if we made some kind of mistake that led to an ally's death. He attacked us and we fought him.

1.0 Did not play, have no opinion.
2.0 Cid. If only because it focused so god damn much on him in the climax of ARR.
3.0 Estinien for reasons explained by Cleretic
4.0 Lyse for reasons explained by Cleretic
5.0 Minfilia/Ryne. Both forms really. I mean she even has a story book devoted to her in the beginning.
6.0 Venat because it was the end of the war between Zodiark and Hydaelyn and Zodiark was lobotomized at this point.
7.0 Yshtola. And this is because she NEEDS some kind of character arc. Girl has been the same since day 1 despite all that has happened.

WoL isn't even a real character lmao. They're just a device, and they might as well be a tool for people who actually have motivations, plans, and directives. All the WoL does is copy whatever the good guys are carrying onto themselves and carry out difficult deeds and feats that an MMO story that requires the player be in the center of it all carries out. In definition the WoL is the protagonist, but it's nowhere near other FF games where the main character is actually a character with their own personality, past, relationships, and characteristics.

Emet asked, who are you? WoL is no one, nothing.

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Originally Posted by ShinyChariot

WoL isn't even a real character lmao. They're just a device, and they might as well be a tool for people who actually have motivations, plans, and directives. All the WoL does is copy whatever the good guys are carrying onto themselves and carry out difficult deeds and feats that an MMO story that requires the player be in the center of it all carries out. In definition the WoL is the protagonist, but it's nowhere near other FF games where the main character is actually a character with their own personality, past, relationships, and characteristics.

Emet asked, who are you? WoL is no one, nothing.

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Actually, you're mistaken there on multiple fronts - the WoL is a character in so much as the story revolves around them. While it's certainly true they are also a narrative device to move the story forward, they are also the central protagonist in that the story literally could not exist without them and that their story is the main story (this is unlike FFXI where the player's character literally is just a sidekick along for the ride while the story NPCs like Zeid and Lion who are the real protagonists that get all the credit for your efforts). And with the revelation in ShB that they are the reincarnation of Azem the Wanderer, stating that they are 'no one and nothing' is completely wrong and missing the point entirelly.

And not every FF game has a dedicated protagonist with a fully fleshed out story or even identity anyway - some FF games they are just blank slates left to the player to create an identity for them, dating right back to 1987 and the very first FF game especially which FFXIV actually has a lot in common with. In FFI, the party was literally a party of nameless generics also called the Warriors of Light who were literally only identified by their Job class - there was literally no backstory for any of them other than they were young and each bore a dulled Crystal. FFIII was very similar (although the DS remake altered it and gave them names and identities, the original Famicom version they were just generic adventurers nicknamed 'Onion Kids' due to starting with the Onion Knight Job.).

Although FFII was the first FF game to feature named protagonists, party members, it was only with FFIV did each successive game have actual named protagonists (and FF Tactics kind of did both, with a main protagonist (Ramza) and guest named characters, with a bunch of generic adventurers that could be fired, end up killed or rehired with impunity). And it should go without saying FFXIV's MMO predecessor FFXI also had a generic player character who had zero backstory other than "they're a new adventurer from a foreign land".

So FFXIV's "your character is a blank slate" concept is hardly unusual for the series.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Actually, you're mistaken there on multiple fronts - the WoL is a character in so much as the story revolves around them. While it's certainly true they are also a narrative device to move the story forward, they are also the central protagonist in that the story literally could not exist without them.

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You really took my "other FF games" example quite literally. I said "Other", not all of them. Of course there are games in the series the series that don't have a defined fleshed out "character" as the protagonist. As far as the story literally not being able to exist without them, that's the same for the games without a fleshed out protagonist like 1~3, 11, and all the examples you mentioned. They all have basic lore on what they are and what their purpose is, but it's not so far off from what the WoL is. The WoL just has more complicated titles and statuses attatched to them that comes along with an MMO story that's been going on for years. If there's a box where Terra, Squall, Cloud, Noctus, and whomever else, and another box with generic blank slate heroes, I'm putting FFXIV's WoL in the latter because the FFXIV WoL in portrayed in the same spirit as them.

I never argued against the existence of blank slate characters in the FF series to begin with. That's just a strawman you made up.

You can mention WoL being Azem's reincarnation and all that, but those are just more details about what the WoL is, not who they are and it doesn't make them any less of a blank slate than they were before this information. The developers even allow you an extraordinary amount of freedom regarding Azem's actual personality and values, as they let you decide what they were doing during the final days, so you saying the Blank Slate WoL is a reincarnation of a Blank Slate ancient isn't saying much.

They are literally a character, but narratively they're empty.

And then you have Vaan who is only the lead for a short while and wouldn't even matter much of taken out.

7.0 could be Zero and restoring the 13th with the Twelve (a person can dream)...and they could make a sidequest for Y'shtola development just like they did with Tataru.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

And then you have Vaan who is only the lead for a short while and wouldn't even matter much of taken out.

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Between Vaan, Tidus, Raiden in MGS2 and I know a couple more I'm forgetting, the PS2 was a weird renaissance in 'stories where the character you play as is not the main character of the story itself'.

I think it is important to only consider the x.0 level storyline to discuss things like this, because anything after that (such as 4.2, 5.3, etc) includes epilogue-esque plot elements that are there to tie loose ends and basically to "give players something to grind on for the next 2 years."

This, my thought would be:
1.0: This was a failed experiment, so no comment.
2.0: I really didn't see anybody getting any character development during 2.0. Everyone basically remained the same person, so the WoL might be the best contender as s/he transforms from a regular adventurer into realizing he is special and ends up with the archons.
3.0 Estinien & Alphinaud: Both of these characters interact and grow during Heavensward, but I think Estinien has more of the heroic aspect compared to Alphinaud.
4.0 Lyse & Hien: Ryne was definitely more of the "intended" heroine of Stromblood where she was "supposed" to learn by looking at Hien, who already has all of the qualities of a perfect hero. I think the story-telling sort of didn't do a good job with making Lyse really convincing. The after-stories doesn't help because I see more Raubahn than Lyse for anything Ala Mhigho-related.
5.0 Ryne, Thancred & Albert: Ryne had to face herself and get rid of her "Minfilia" role, while Thancred had to resolve his mental attachment to Minflilia which he was projecting on Ryne. Albert was basically a ghost during the entire 5.0 plot, but he had to struggle with the purpose of his existence and constant self-doubt of whether his past battles had any meaning or not -- but in the end he becomes the final straw that saves the world.
6.0 Zenos: As much as I hate the guy, 6.0 really keeps bringing him into scenes to make it look like he is gradually changing from a genocidal psychopath into being on the scion's side at the end. It feels like the intent is to say "he learned and grew up as a character." He is even shown in a poster standing with the scions.

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Originally Posted by Ghost_of_Ebina

I think it is important to only consider the x.0 level storyline to discuss things like this, because anything after that (such as 4.2, 5.3, etc) includes epilogue-esque plot elements that are there to tie loose ends and basically to "give players something to grind on for the next 2 years."

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The post-credits MSQ is still MSQ, and includes some of the WoL's biggest victories amid a huge lot of plot continuation.

Saying it doesn't count is rejecting a huge chunk of the game.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The post-credits MSQ is still MSQ, and includes some of the WoL's biggest victories amid a huge lot of plot continuation.

Saying it doesn't count is rejecting a huge chunk of the game.

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Yes, I would count it separate. If we are to include it it would be too early to say who can possibly be the main protagonist for 6.x as we haven't seen the entire plot.
It may as well be Zero, or it can even be Golbez. To me the plot in each post-credit is quite disconnected from the pre-credit.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

While it's certainly true they are also a narrative device to move the story forward, they are also the central protagonist in that the story literally could not exist without them and that their story is the main story (this is unlike FFXI where the player's character literally is just a sidekick along for the ride while the story NPCs like Zeid and Lion who are the real protagonists that get all the credit for your efforts).

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. That is a grave misreading of FFXI's storylines. Full stop. The adventurer in FFXI is a big, pivotal deal in every storyline in that game (Especially Rhapsodies), though they aren't always treated with the respect they deserve.


They don't get full credit from the world like the WoL does in FFXIV, but they get full credit from the NPCs directly related to each storyline they participate in at the time of going through it.

I mean, there is a mild disconnect with its presentation in that NPCs don't recognize you from prior encounters because the timeline for the game has the consistency of silly puddy. But I'll go through it storyline by storyline except for the Voracious Resurgence( 1. it's not finish and 2. I haven't touched it yet).

Nation Missions up to Rank 6: The first storyline for the game. The adventurer winds up being the responsible for stopping the rebirth of The Shadowlord, and does defeat the Shadowlord in combat. They are lauded and promoted by whatever nation they do it for.

Rise of the Zilart: It begins with Lion rescuing you from the Zilartian Princes / Ark Angels after you defeat the Shadowlord as a, "Hey this is actually what happened when The Shadowlord blew himself up." But it ends with Lion, Zeid, and Aldo being unable to match the power of Eald'narche. So the adventurer steps up and takes him down. Lion then sacrifices herself to stop his final attempt at activating the Crystal Line as Yve'noile ferries his soul off to the afterlife. Zeid and Aldo part ways with the adventurer, Zeid telling them, "I speak for all of Vana'diel when I say thank you <Adventurer's Name>."

Chains of Promathia: More important than ever before, the Adventurer becomes the vessel for the Mothercrystals' lights, unwittingly aiding in Selh'teus's plan to restore light to Al'taieu's crystal and prevent the advent of the Keeper of the Apocalypse. Other characters slowly unfold this truth over the course of a convoluted 8 chapter(43 or so missions) tale. By the end of the storyline it's implied that Prishe and the adventurer are beyond mortality, and this is what allows them to aid Selh'teus in fighting the Twilight God. It is also explicitly why they can deny/ignore his mind enslaving telepathy.

Treasures of Aht Urhgan: The adventurer becomes a double agent. A spy for the middle lands, and a mercenary for Salaheem's Sentinels. With the Empress Nashmeira II personally growing attached to them, and claiming them to be her mercenary for all eternity. This is offset somewhat by Naja Salaheem treating the adventurer like dirt, but even she knows deep down and admits by the end that they are her most powerful and valuable merc.

Wings of the Goddess: Stumbling into a derelict Atomos maw, the adventurer is flung back in time to the Crystal War era where they become pivotal in the war effort. In addition to this, they find out that they have actually been sent back to a point where timelines diverge, and encounter the Walk of Echoes, as well as Cait Sith, an avatar born of Altana's Tears. They quickly become tasked with stopping their own timeline from being doomed to the actual Atomos's maw, and go on to fight the compelling Lady Lilith for the right to exist. There's a bit more to it than that, but they more or less get acknowledged as the world's savior by Cait Sith, a divinity's familiar. (Not too mention by Lilisette who would have been condemned to non-existence without their aid).

A Crystalline Prophecy: Without the adventurer, Aldo could not have stopped the Seed Crystal, so the Antiphon wouldn't have nipped its song of oblivion in the bud by being able to marshal the lifeforce response from the denizens of Vana'diel.

Moogle Kupo D'etat: Rent a Rooms would be Pay to Stay, the horror! This one revolves specifically around the adventurer and their rent a room moogle.

Shantotto Ascension: Adventurer and Shantotto rack up another funny world endangering story that only the adventurer could stop.

Abyssea: Joachim makes it explicitly clear that only the Adventurer is up to the task of crossing into the world of Abyssea, a twisted apocalyptic Vana'diel, and stopping it from ending.

Voidwatch: Similar to Abyssea with less story.

Seekers of Adoulin: The adventurer gets a leg in with Arciela, who's basically royalty. Becomes the most pivotal pioneer in all of Adoulin. Gets compared to August, the founder of Adoulin from hundreds of years ago. Literally fights with and defeats monsters whos family monster name in the data is, "Super Beings."

Rhapsodies of Vana'diel: Altana literally hands down responsibility of pushing back the Cloud of Darkness to the adventurer in a face to face meeting in Lumoria. The player character is implied to have achieved divinity.

So, I mean, it's just patently false to claim that the adventurer in XI just remains some nobody and everyone around them gets all the credit. There's just not an entire side cast cooing in awe of them at every other cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Ghost_of_Ebina

Yes, I would count it separate. If we are to include it it would be too early to say who can possibly be the main protagonist for 6.x as we haven't seen the entire plot.
It may as well be Zero, or it can even be Golbez. To me the plot in each post-credit is quite disconnected from the pre-credit.

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Oh, no.
Previous expansions each story started before the expansion actually came out, and ended half-way through the post-credit patches.
The Heavensward story started in patch 2.4 (when we start looking for Lady Iceheart) and ended in patch 3.3 (Final Steps of Faith)
Stormblood story started no later than patch 3.5 (meeting the Griffin, and Baelsar's Wall), and ended in patch 4.3 (Castrum Fluminis)

Endwalker is a bit different in that the main story (and the whole Ascian/Zodiark overarching plot) ended with patch 6.0, with patch 6.1 and onwards (probably) serving as setup for 7.0

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Oh, no.
Previous expansions each story started before the expansion actually came out, and ended half-way through the post-credit patches.
The Heavensward story started in patch 2.4 (when we start looking for Lady Iceheart) and ended in patch 3.3 (Final Steps of Faith)
Stormblood story started no later than patch 3.5 (meeting the Griffin, and Baelsar's Wall), and ended in patch 4.3 (Castrum Fluminis)

Endwalker is a bit different in that the main story (and the whole Ascian/Zodiark overarching plot) ended with patch 6.0, with patch 6.1 and onwards (probably) serving as setup for 7.0

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Truth: it genuinely took until someone told me sometime when I was playing Stormblood that Heavensward ended at Thordan, not Nidhogg.

Admittedly I was basically alone as far as any community goes until about the time I finished 5.0; I had a couple of disconnected friends but was mostly going solo. (I remember it was 5.0 because I had a very weird, rude awakening when bringing out my general take of 'finished Shadowbringers, shame the ending dropped the ball because I loved all the rest'.) I admit I'm far from the usual example, but it means I can attest: if you don't have some form of external or metatextual confirmation that this is where 'the expansion' ends, it's genuinely hard to tell. Especially if you're like me and both skip the credits and swiftly forget that you did.

Heavensward's credits felt unearned when they rolled after beating Thordan. The story absolutely ends with defeating Nidhogg and saving Estinien; Thordan is a fake final boss like Innocence – looks like the end of the quest but things go wrong afterwards and there's a whole extra act to go.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Heavensward's credits felt unearned when they rolled after beating Thordan. The story absolutely ends with defeating Nidhogg and saving Estinien; Thordan is a fake final boss like Innocence – looks like the end of the quest but things go wrong afterwards and there's a whole extra act to go.

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Yeah, IMO there's a different ending for most of the expansions than what is presented.

ARR: When you finish T13 of Coil, because at that point you've just defeated the greatest threat to the realm, and have basically avenged all who died during the 7th Calamity.
HW: Killing Nidhogg is the finale of HW. Hell, the cutscenes after even show Lord Fortemps closing a book titled, "Heavensward," just to make it a visual end.
SB: This is the exception here, it literally ended with Shinryu.
ShB: Defeating Elidibus and returning from the First at the end of 5.3 is where I call this expansion done, as you've defeated the "light" with shadow. You were the shadowbringer.
EW: 6.0's end was the finale, I don't think anybody can deny this.

I think this is really only true for Heavensward, simply because the story was a bit meandering and Thordan was a fairly insipid villain. Nidhogg by contrast was a genuine force of hatred who kept the cycle of warfare going. Coil provides some very interesting insights, but it's not at all necessary to the dramatic conclusion at the end of Praetorium. Bahamut Prime is less of a villain than he is a force of nature.

Likewise, it's really hard not to see the final showdown against Emet in Amaurot as the real climax of Shadowbringers. The fight against Elidibus was tragic, but his attempt to continue the fight also was completely pathetic on a lot of levels, so much so that even Emet saw the need to put down the last broken member of the Unsundered. Their fight really ended when Emet died, simply because he was only one of them who was ever actually compos mentis.

I was always convinced that, were FFXIV a single player experience, Alphinaud would very much have been the player character. A large percent of the drama happens to him directly or those traveling with hiim. He doesn’t necessary have the most focus (like said, Heavansward is arguably Estenien’s story), but Alphi is there in the thick of it.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I was always convinced that, were FFXIV a single player experience, Alphinaud would very much have been the player character. A large percent of the drama happens to him directly or those traveling with hiim. He doesn’t necessary have the most focus (like said, Heavansward is arguably Estenien’s story), but Alphi is there in the thick of it.

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Alphi's definitely the deuteragonist of the entire storyline, that's for sure. The Al to our Ed, the Nashu to our Hildibrand, the Shield to our Sword.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Alphi's definitely the deuteragonist of the entire storyline, that's for sure. The Al to our Ed, the Nashu to our Hildibrand, the Shield to our Sword.

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The ass to my foot.... im so sorry I couldn't resist

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That is all vastly understating what we do. We-the-players watch cutscenes and finish questlines in a videogame; the Warrior of Light lives and experiences those events, going through great effort to save the world on multiple occasions. That isn't something to be dismissed as "all we do". And I doubt Papalymo remarked on us watching cutscenes - perhaps you could quote that?

Also, we failed Emet-Selch's test because Emet-Selch kept moving the goalposts, and in any case I don't see how failing an antagonist's so-called test makes them the main character and us irrelevant. If we weren't the main character, there wouldn't be a test in the first place.

And we don't just "witness" Hydaelyn's plan and hope, we ARE her plan and hope.


Edit to add: It's also misleading to say that we "got Emet-Selch killed" as if we made some kind of mistake that led to an ally's death. He attacked us and we fought him.

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You kinda make me question the output of the translation teams.. well for my Understanding Emet-Selch offered alliance under the condition that we pass his test, his test was that we be able to bear the light of the First Shard, at the Gulg was last Lightwarden and were we able to bear the light? No. we relied on others to survive, we failed Emet Selch's Test, after that we had to go to Emet Selch's Lair to bring back the Crystal Exarch. Emet Selch only showed up because he was tired of us, all the explaining, walking and the only stipulation he had towards us we failed? of course he was like "GTFOH!", only after Ryne's Help and Ardberd's Decision for Reunion we were able to stand and fight, we're not able to do our mission on our own.

and Papalymo was mentioning that if we would take more responsibility in the endeavors of the Scions that we wouldn't have time for our own Adventures. I never said anything about Papalymo remarking on us watching cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

You kinda make me question the output of the translation teams.. well for my Understanding Emet-Selch offered alliance under the condition that we pass his test, his test was that we be able to bear the light of the First Shard, at the Gulg was last Lightwarden and were we able to bear the light? No. we relied on others to survive, we failed Emet Selch's Test, after that we had to go to Emet Selch's Lair to bring back the Crystal Exarch. Emet Selch only showed up because he was tired of us, all the explaining, walking and the only stipulation he had towards us we failed? of course he was like "GTFOH!", only after Ryne's Help and Ardberd's Decision for Reunion we were able to stand and fight, we're not able to do our mission on our own.

and Papalymo was mentioning that if we would take more responsibility in the endeavors of the Scions that we wouldn't have time for our own Adventures. I never said anything about Papalymo remarking on us watching cutscenes.

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This is definitely a misunderstanding.
Emet-Selch never intended to from an 'alliance', he never had any intention of abandoning his plans to rejoin the First. His 'test' was purely out of curiosity, to see if half the worlds now being rejoined made us closer to the unsundered than to the 1/14th wretches he despised. If we were capable of keeping the light at bay, then he believed there would be potential for us to stand beside him, to see his side and join him. He wanted to recruit us as a pseudo-Ascian to destroy the first for yet another rejoining, nothing more.
And as far as I'm concerned, we did prove his theory right. With one more soul-rejoining, namely Ardbert, we were able to harness the light as a weapon against him. This proved to him in his last moment that, while we were still diametrically opposed to his ideals, we were capable of opposing them, not merely the fragmented 1/14th excuse for a sentient being he originally took us for, and thus worthy of living in his eyes.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

his test was that we be able to bear the light of the First Shard, at the Gulg was last Lightwarden and were we able to bear the light? No. we relied on others to survive, we failed Emet Selch's Test

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Even assuming he was totally honest that he wanted to form an "alliance" with us... what sort of alliance, and with what goals? Why should we care that we failed to pass a test he inflicted upon us and which we made no active effort to engage with (seeing as it was what we planned to do anyway), and why should we have wanted to pass?

Charming or not, sympathetic or not, his goals were never going to align with ours unless he somehow convinced us to join his side and turn our backs on our friends and everyone we've ever known for some alleged glorious past we don't even remember.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

You kinda make me question the output of the translation teams.. well for my Understanding Emet-Selch offered alliance under the condition that we pass his test, his test was that we be able to bear the light of the First Shard, at the Gulg was last Lightwarden and were we able to bear the light? .

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When we all went to Amaurot he gave the whole group the final test which was the Amaurot dungeon. Afterwards he is like "well you prevailed but..." and bascially moved the goalpost again because we still did not live up to his standards. Next to all of that he was still tempered by Zodiark. What would he have done if we could contain the light? The only thing that would make sense is to try to get us on his side which we would never do. Heck we do find out that Azem themselves went against the Zodiark plan so why should we, the ones that grew up in this sundered world with their own loved ones agree to take it down?

No in the end it would always end up in a fight to the death. Its either we let us be killed and the world with all its people be destroyed or stop someone that has gone so mad with grief (and tempering) that he would destroy it all for a chance to get the past back.

About this topic itself: Why should our character not be the true main character? Yes we have important NPCs on our side and each expansion there is a another one that has a big role to play but in the end all of the victories are only possible because of us. Not only that even in story you notice us being the main character by having so many NPCs loving us or wanting something from us. We are the star of it.

I also disagree with the notion that the WoL is purely a blank slate. Yes you can still form some part of the person who is behind the name but a big part of the story is still written by SE. If you dislike Emet your character still reaches out to him or look sad at the end of Endwalker. Likewise if you dont like the Scions your character is still acting as if they are friends with them. You cant choose your own path or even make decisions. You are mostly just in it for the ride.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

3.0 Estinien for reasons explained by Cleretic

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One Question: Who had the Idea to End the DRagon Song on a diplomatic Path?

without that why would Estinien at that time show Hresvaelgr any mercy?

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

One Question: Who had the Idea to End the DRagon Song on a diplomatic Path?

without that why would Estinien at that time show Hresvaelgr any mercy?

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...are you asking this in-story? Because the answer is 'Alphinaud, specifically and exactly', he's the one that gets that idea. And Estinien sort of just... invites himself; he's not really the kind of guy you can refuse when he does that sort of thing, he's too spiky. But 'main character' of a story like this doesn't mean 'person who makes the initial events happen', or else we might as well call Ilberd the protagonist of Stormblood.

Hraesvelgr survives their meeting mostly by way of there being a much bigger, louder, angrier dragon for Estinien to aim at instead. If Nidhogg wasn't around, yeah, Estinien might've took violent ire with him instead, but Nidhogg was the very specific public enemy number one and root of problems. However, remember that this came down to Estinien's choices at the time, and the fact he made the choices he did was a big part of his character arc, which in turn was emblematic of the arc of Ishgard as a whole. Alphinaud being--let's be honest--WAY too idealistic might've set some parts in motion, but it's Estinien's story through and through.


If you're asking in terms of the developers... I dunno, there's like, five potential people who could've come up with that part, possibly more if the idea started back in 1.0, we don't have a great grasp of the specific environment and context in which HW was written. If I were to narrow down my guess it'd probably be either Yoshi-P or Kazutoyo Maehiro, but even that's just a guess.

I would say that Dawntrail didn't make the Playerbase Happy..
as for my Point of View of who the Real Main Character is:
Erenville. I just looked up his Name and funnily, he is also the Narrator of Dawntrail.. you could say my Main Character Theory decides the Narrator (most of the Time) also to be the True Main Character of the Story. But why Erenville? Well, he had the same Goal as Wuk Lamat, finding the Golden City. And No, it isn't Wuk Lamat because her task was concluded at the mid-point of the MSQ of Dawntrail. Yes, she also wanted to find the Golden City, but was verified as victor of the succession to the Throne of Tuliyollal. But Erenville's Story wasn't done yet. I'd say his story was concluded with the Finale of the 7.0

We do not know they'll build up to 8.0 yet.

But! I'm in the Mood to Yap! I mean.. you will tell me that I save the Entirety of Existence at lvl90 only go get lvl100 at a Summer Vacation!? I'm sorry but the Writing of Dawntrail Squandered the Potencial for a New Beginning. imo the Second Half of Dawntrail ruined it all, only to have some sorta graceful moments at the end..

So let me elaborate on my Dawnsinger Prediction:
Coming off from the FF4 Remake that was the Endwalker Patch Story, it would've been the Perfect Opportunity for Meteion to show the Positive Energies that Dynamis can mobilize!
Rebuilding the Thirteenth Shard by inbuing Hopeful Dynamis with the Light of the First Shard, Helping to save 2 Worlds as the Dawnsinger. I would picture the Dawnsinger Expansion more like FF4 The After Years.. thing is I haven't played that but I'd say it would be a Good Reference Point for the Story Writer. And after Saving the Thirteenth Shard we still can join Wuk Lamat on her Rite to Succession of the Throne of Tuliyollal, since the Follow of Time across the Shards is uncertain.

Yet knowing that this isn't happening anymore, I at least hope that we travel to Meracidia in 8.0 and that it will be like Breath of the Wild.