One of the topics that interest me the most in the story are the Imperial legions, especially the ones we haven't heard anything about. I'll try to make a quick reminder of what we do know and please make sure to correct me if I'm wrong or if I missed something!
Ist - Led by Quintus van Cinna, who took his own life after realizing the Xth wasn't joining them. Fought against the IIIrd for the throne after the death of Varis.
IInd - Responsible for conquering Corvos. Were eventually overwhelmed by the beasts during the Final Days and some of the survivors fled to Garlemald.
IIIrd - Fought in the civil war with the Ist. Formerly led by Nerva yae Galvus, who was turned into a blasphemy after the defeat of Anima. Currently led by Virgillia Corculum.
IVth - Led by now deceased Basch van Gabranth*. Responsible for the conquest of the regions of Bozja, Zadnor and Dalmasca.
*Some people believe Gabranth might still be alive
Vth - Unknown, but it seems they were to join the Xth when aiding the Ist in Garlmeald during the events of Endwalker.
VIth - Led by now deceased Regula van Hydrus. They were responsible for exploring Azys Lla and finding the secrets to bind primals. In theory the rest of the VIth is still trapped in Azys Lla.
VIIth - Originally led by now deceased Nael van Darnus. Responsible for the meteor project and the seventh calamity. Later Valens van Varro resumes the weapons project during the Sorrow of Werlyt, but is ultimately defeated by Gaius.
VIIIth - Unknown
IXth - Unknown
Xth - Briefly mentioned as the main legion that would come to aid the Ist during the events of Endwalker.
XIth - Responsible for invading Nagxia, where they commited brutal atrocities and slaughtered many towns. The massacre of Dagluk, in Nagxia, was particularly brutal and denounced by Varis.
XIIth - Led by now deceased Zenos yae Galvus. Responsible for the dominion in the far East such as Doma, and also in Ala Mhigo.
XIIIth - Unknown
XIVth - Originally led by Gaius van Baelsar. Responsible for the Ultima weapon project and the dominion over Eorzea.
So, do you think we'll see one of the unknown legions in 7.0? Assuming we go to the New World or Meracydia I think it could happen. What could have happened to them after the defeat of Varis? Are there some rogue legions still?
The Imperial Legions
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01-13-2023, 10:13 AMCassarThe Imperial Legions
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01-13-2023, 10:20 AMKageTokage
The second legion is mentioned in the final EW role quest as having been decimated by the Final Days due to occupying Corvos at the time.
The only thing that's really been said about the remainder is that they're still ruling over some of the provinces but simply waiting to see what happens before they commit to any greater course of action. -
01-13-2023, 11:04 AMNecrotica
I guarantee you care more about the Garleans than the developers do.
They are the BAD GUYS! Stop caring about them!
To be clear, I am on your side. Garleans are the most interesting group in this game and I would sunder an entire planet to be able to play as them. -
01-13-2023, 11:46 AMCleretic
While I'm not as against the Legions getting more spotlight as I am the Ascians, because there's a lot of new and interesting ground to cover in an 'empire's dead, now what' situation--Gabranth's and Quintus' angles are far from the only ones--I don't think we'll see them take center stage soon. Or at least, I think it's a bad idea for them to.
7.0's got that ugly challenge where it has to define what FFXIV looks like after its whole defining story is done. It's like where the MCU was right after Endgame, or where Kingdom Hearts goes... well, right now, actually. I think 7.0 needs to stake a bold claim somewhere the game's never gone at length before, just to show that it can. I think if any of the Legions turn up anytime soon, it'll be at about the level of the VIth back in Heavensward, possibly even smaller.
It's hard to judge where the Legions are in the devs' minds right now, because we're only really looking at their homeland. Where I think they do have a genuine and earnest interest in where the Garleans go now, and a love and respect for them as 'not the bad guys', but for understandable reasons aren't going too hard on it. That's just not really a story that suits being right in the middle of a game like this. -
01-13-2023, 12:43 PMMikkoAkure
About the Xth legion, the wiki claims:
I don't remember that and hope someone here may have some insight if this was actually stated in the game or not. I've seen suspiciously canon entries in it before...Quote:
they banded together with the IVth Imperial Legion, Vth Legion, VIIIth Legion and the remnants of the XIIth Imperial Legion in an effort to reclaim the city.
If true, that may knock out a bunch of legions because the Xth's legatus surrendered to Eorzea and gave us the code phrase to have the Ist legion stand down. If all the other legions were with them at the same time then there's basically no Garlean military power left and Eorzea is left as the most powerful bloc in the world.
If there is still a legion out there, what kind of story would be told with them that hasn't been done already? We've already fought multiple loyal legions directly, fought another that had rebelled and were doing their own thing separate from the Empire, and another two we fought at first and then teamed up against a bigger threat.
I guess if we go further afield to a different continent it would be neat if we meet up with a Garlean legion who doesn't care we're Eorzean or that the Empire has fallen and we work with them from the very beginning. -
01-13-2023, 01:11 PMCleretic...that's literally the exact thing that doesn't happen. Those Legions are the ones that contacted the Alliance to say 'we give up' that led to Quintus' suicide because he was convinced they were coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkoAkure
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01-13-2023, 02:48 PMSaitoHikariI'd at least be willing to bet that there has to be at least one Legion that left to explore the world beyond the Three Great Continents, and they'll provide us a means to travel to one of the other major landmasses in the world. Considering their technological superiority, I can't imagine the Garleans wouldn't have sent at least one group to fly across the oceans, in the name of following the footsteps of the Allagans or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkoAkure
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01-13-2023, 04:37 PMYianKutkuThat's kind of the usual trajectory in history for military-focused empires, though; once they fall, it goes almost immediately into warlordism, where every imperial general declares for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkoAkure
Hence the IVth Legion in Bozja, as you mentioned. So it's entirely plausible for another Legion somewhere to set up their own little fiefdom, and possibly (if unlikely, given how Garlemald chooses its Legatuses) also not an invading force or warcrimes manufactory, thus making it easier for us to work with them.
It doesn't even have to be in a different continent; there could be something happening in Corvos, since we don't know what the situation is there now. It sounds like the IInd Legion were acting all imperial and colonial before getting wiped out by the Final Days, but I can imagine some (very minor, very soft) retcons into "actually we're trying our best to rebuild while helping the former subjugated". It would be a nice affirmation of the theme about working together to make something better. -
01-13-2023, 05:31 PMEnkidohExcept we know cereleum was a major limiting factor to the Empire's outward progress of international conquest beyond Islabard and Othard. This is why their initial forways into Eorzea were conducted at very specific targets - namely Ala Mhigo as the initial bridgehead and then into Lake Silvertear in Mor Dhona - it was to establish refuelling bases where cereleum was plentiful that they could easily secure cereleum supplies for their airships and machina to power the rest of the conquest of the realm. This whole strategy however ultimately failed for reasons already well known.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
It is also why Seiryu's Wall worked as as a strategy against the Empire reclaiming Doma and the Far East - it didn't block the entirety of Othard from Garlemald/Islabard, but it did seal off the most quickest and fuel-efficent route into Othard by air via the Burn - forcing Garlean forces to have to instead travel either into northern Othard via the Azim Steppe where the xaela clans had already agreed to harry the Garleans relentlessly (and thus cause the Imperial forces to waste precious time and fuel fighting them needlessly), or else take the even more circuitious and fuel-wasting over-ocean route (where the Confederacy, already no friends of the Empire, willingly agreed to ensure any Garlean cruise over the Ruby Sea came to a sudden stop).
Likewise, because Eorzea was not placated and under Garlean control, that cut off the most quickest and easiest route to the New World via air, and with Limsan pirate fleets making life a living hell for Garlean-flagged maritime shipping, yeah, suddenly Garlean jingoism comes to a shuddering halt (or at least a screeching brake). Accordingly I very much doubt we'll find any missing Garlean legion in the New World to be honest... although... stranger things have happened! :D -
01-14-2023, 01:46 AMThighland
If there are going to be more stories told in Garlemald, I really hope they bring back Gabranth.
But that seems unlikely since they abandoned the Dalmasca storyline -
01-14-2023, 05:03 AMCassarI used to think they abandoned it, but I read somewhere that the field notes on Gabranth and Lyon were written word by word exactly the same as the how the story writer did. Meaning it was always planned for their end to be told that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thighland
I had found that somewhat lazy initially, but later I realized it makes the story darker - Gabranth died in a way that his body couldn't be fully recognized and we never got to see exactly what happened, giving this air of mystery. -
01-14-2023, 05:28 AMWhiteArchmage
I've mentioned a few times, but yes. Matsuno-san wrote the Field Notes himself and that's how he wanted to end the story... except not entirely right. He's been experiencing burnout (he didn't SAY that, but it's notable in his twitter), and also grew disillusioned because a loud part of the fanbase hated the Dramaturge side-quests in Ivalice, even apologizing when they were removed for the distress they caused players. Those quests were very personal to him and he'd enjoyed writing them.
So Matsuno-san does have an outline for the third part of the story, and he's previously mentioned it would deal with an already-liberated Dalmasca (liberated off-screen during/after the events of Bozja, hence the Field Notes), and Yoshi-P and him were just waiting for the moment to continue it (from what we know, it's a series of solo quests akin to the current Manderville weapons and the Cid's memory part of Bozja). But considering his burnout and disillusionment, the poor man might just retire before he can write it; however, he's also expressed that he's given the CBU3 writing team said outline, so they can in theory continue it in his stead.
Considering the utter respect the Japanese have for their authors, it's likely CBU3 wouldn't change much from the original outline but instead build on it. But also considering the JP culture, they may not touch it because... you don't really play with others' toys... -
01-14-2023, 08:04 AMFrightfulNightI have actually had this theory for a while that the XIIIth Legion might not be based off of Final Fantasy XIII (which is underwhelming) but in fact an homage to the 13 original colonies of America that are operating in the New World due to the rich cereluem deposits and during the war off succession broke off from Garlemald to form their own nation paralleling the American revolution. There is even more evidence to support this with the edition of the frontier glamour which resembles 50s American fashion since we know from EW that a lot of the more modern looking glamour is probably Garlean from what their citizens in the capitol were wearing. This could mean that this hypothetical colony could resemble a mixture of colonial and 50's America. Also for the sake of zone and cultural diversity for exploring the New World I imagine that much like the Original colonies the lands controlled by the XIIIth only go along the east coast and do not go further west then a whatever would be the parallels for either the Appalachia's or the Mississipi and not to far north that way we can also have various cultures with Parallels to the various Native American groups that we can also explore.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
I have also believed for some time now that the NEW World will probably be later in this new arch's lifetime as I imagine it might get 2 expansions dedicated to it, one for the northern continent and one for the southern continent with the story from one leading into the story for the other. -
01-15-2023, 10:33 AMCassar
Why would it be based off Final Fantasy XIII? Other than Dalamud and the Weapons being related to VII and the Warring Triad legion being related to VI, the other ones really don't have anything to do with their games. Heck, Gabranth's legion is not even XII, it's IV!
Speaking of, Final Fantasy XIII has to be the game with the least amount of references in this game... The only thing I can think of is the Twinning dungeon. -
01-15-2023, 10:46 AMSimple_BarghestA lot of the Allagan machines and artificial creations are taken pretty directly from 13.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassar
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01-15-2023, 11:13 AMClereticThe notion of every legion being based on their respective game number probably came about with VII and VI having Meteor and the Warring Triad respectively. But after that it gets nebulous; XII sort of thematically fits with them being the focus of an expansion about imperial occupation and liberation, but not one single other one has been close, and it actually kinda screwed everyone's predictions when it came to the IVth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassar
You're right that XIII has very little explicit references, but it did provide A LOT of reused skeletons and models for enemies. That might actually be why it gets referenced very little; with the other games it feels like a reference out of genuine affection because they have to put a lot of effort into replicating Scarmiglione or whatever, but it'd be really hard to do a XIII reference that doesn't feel like them taking the easy way out because they've already got the models. -
01-15-2023, 12:30 PMMikkoAkureFFXIII had its own event like FFXI and FFXV did. Lightning herself came to Eorzea and we fought mecha-behemoths together, got her and Snow's clothes and haircuts, and got weapons for all the classes that existed in ARR modeled after weapons from the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleretic
Though it would've been wild if we got to the moon and found it hollow with surviving Ancients/Ascians living inside with creations/primals running the joint.
Type-0 oddly enough got a lot of representation in that the hairstyles of all of the kids are in the game.
There's nothing I can think of that's representative of Crystal Chronicles, which is a shame. -
01-15-2023, 02:28 PMEnkidohThere is a sort of/maybe reference to FFCC in the Dead Ends with the plague that wiped out the grebuloffs' civilization - every enemy in the grebuloff's world has the 'Plagued' status effect, that if you hover the cursor over it's status icon on an affected enemy states "a toxic miasma is warping the body".Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkoAkure
This might be a reference to the equally destructive Miasma that wrecked havoc on the world of Crystal Chronicles... but that might be a long shot (given that the Niburians at the end of the Dead Ends was an equally obscure reference to an equally obscure FF title - in that case the Apathetics from the World of Fruits in FF Unlimited - I like to think it is a deliberate reference). -
01-15-2023, 02:55 PMClereticYeah, processing it more, that's kinda the only thing they can do with XIII and XV. They can't do the sort of thing we're seeing right now with IV where they're organically weaving enemies and locations from it into the story, because while that looks very respectful and interesting with a game where they have to make that stuff from scratch, it instead comes off as lazy recycling when it's from a game where those assets are already good to go. So instead the only thing they can really do with XIII and XV is throw subtlety to the wind and do an outright and overt crossover event, where expectations are different and, crucially, lower; we look at a limited-time event using a bunch of recycled models and just accept that, because we know events don't really have the opportunity to do anything too intensive. XI's in an interesting state where they both can and have done both.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkoAkure
XVI's going to join XIII and XV in that state where they can only really do events, but I think has an interesting extra problem in that it's almost perilously close to XIV, to the point where there's already genuine problems of confusion between how connected they are (whole lot of people looking at the weirdly similar protagonists and being confused about which is which or if that matters). For XVI, even a crossover event might not be a good idea for a while.
EDIT: Also, I should point out that if we're looking for FF games not represented, we've got nothing from Mystic Quest. Don't tell me it doesn't count, it's got 'Final Fantasy' in the title in both NA and Japan! -
01-15-2023, 03:43 PMEnkidohAgain there has been a reference to FFMQ in FFXIV in the past (that was kind of an ironic joke to boot) - an old ARR sidequest in Coerthas Central Highlands involved tracking down a stray black sheep named Benjamin - Benjamin of course being the name of FFMQ's main character, and the joke being that FFMQ is considered the 'black sheep' of the FF series.. yeah, it's pretty obvious it was a deliberate reference (and SE having a laugh at their own expense ;)).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleretic
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01-15-2023, 04:20 PMZero-ELEC
Honestly if they were to reference Crystal Chronicles in any way, I'd love some of the races from that setting in the game. I just think the Yukes are neat.
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01-15-2023, 06:10 PMLythPrior to FFXIV, there's never really been a 'shared universe' in which the series installments are interconnected outside of the odd homage here and there. Given the producer, I wouldn't be surprised if FFXVI comes with that connection written in from the outset.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleretic
Not that it would be particularly difficult. For example, we know very little about the Second Astral Era, outside of the fact that it was a period of theocracies and religious warfare culminating in the Third Umbral Calamity of Fire. Could that setting have some links to Valisthea, much like southern Ilsabard represents the FFXII/Tactics universe in another time period? Who knows.
I personally like seeing a common thread being built between series entries, especially when there's some effort to build a story around it, in contrast to the Omega style 'here's Exdeath and Kefka' style references for the sake of it. Utilizing pre-existing assets from other games when they're available doesn't particularly bother me, and the four auto Rotoswipe Dreadnaughts just feel like an intrinsic part of FFXIV to me simply because I have a lot more hours clocked in here than in FFXIII. Why reinvent the wheel?