NQ/HQ raid gear

So I was just trying to think of a way to make raids more enjoyable for more casual players.

I thought, what if you had two sets of gear per raid something like a NQ and HQ.

-NQ would have a much higher droprate, not look as cool and lower stats (but similar stats)
-HQ would be like the darklight of gear.

This way, you could aim at the NQ set and get that in a fairly short time, while the HQ would be more of a long term goal.

Fights like this appeal to more then one category of player.

Casual (once a week aiming for the NQ)
Hardcore (going hard for the HQ)

Even if you could only dedicate a short time to the raid, there'd be a reward in it for you.
Content would reach more players.

Looking at darklight, the NQ could be the same gear without the red symbols and look less dangerous.

Heavy Darksteel /thread

^^ what he said

Isnt that what the green drops are?

Kinda, they're more like the default drop. And they can be sold, so you never actually have to participate in the raid to obtain em.

Plus they don't really even share the same stat design as the darklight.

I mean like darklight with lower stats.

A reason for more casual players to even attempt the raid.

What's the point for me really now, I own all the stuff you can buy and I want darklight but know I can never invest that kinda time.
Something to get me in there, give me a reason to do the raid.

I'd imagine they couldn't add something like this in now, but maybe they could with future raids.

lol.

/10 char

I like the idea.

Maybe something like.

Heavy Darklight Armor: Def 308 HP+160 Vit+20 Eva-20 Meva +10 Regen +5 Enmity +45

Heavy Example? Armor: Def 268 HP+120 Vit+15 Eva-15 Meva+ 5 Regen +2 Enmity +30

Could use a simpler Darklight design or the same and be a much more common loot.

Didn't they say in an interview they were already going to do Normal and Hard raids in 2.0. So if you wanted the easy version of gear you can do normal if your hardcore then you do hard.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

I like the idea.

Maybe something like.

Heavy Darklight Armor: Def 308 HP+160 Vit+20 Eva-20 Meva +10 Regen +5 Enmity +45

Heavy Example? Armor: Def 268 HP+120 Vit+15 Eva-15 Meva+ 5 Regen +2 Enmity +30

Could use a simpler Darklight design or the same and be a much more common loot.

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this is what I meant exactly.

and yeah they're gonna have an easy and a hard mode. but really they need more of a way to please both casual and hardcore with the same content imo.

I'm not gonna only wanna play easy content just because I don't have time. I'll wanna play the hard mode too. i just think it be nice to have some rewards there for those that don't have stellar time such as myself.

they should totally remove crafter to make everything drop from raid n mob

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Originally Posted by Leo_Hart

they should totally remove crafter to make everything drop from raid n mob

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No............

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Originally Posted by Arkine

I like the idea.

Maybe something like.

Heavy Darklight Armor: Def 308 HP+160 Vit+20 Eva-20 Meva +10 Regen +5 Enmity +45

Heavy Example? Armor: Def 268 HP+120 Vit+15 Eva-15 Meva+ 5 Regen +2 Enmity +30

Could use a simpler Darklight design or the same and be a much more common loot.

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I like the idea, but stat is way too close to each other, has to be somewhat worse so hard mdoe actually worth the effort.

I don't really understand the purpose of this.
As it is now there is high end `endgame gear` you don't have the time to get, whatever that means.
So why not just accept you might not get it?

What is the purpose of having two varieties of dungeon drops? You don't have the time or the group to get it. Won't this still remain true of the HQ version of the drop? They'll be something you won't have the time or the group to get.

You'll be fine with not being able to attain it? If the answer is yes...
So why are you not fine with it already?

SE isn't going to add a "casual darklight drop" so this is all just theoretical but I honestly don't understand.
There already is "casual darklight;" it's called AF.

In order to better aid the casual player, many drops are made sellable. This way a person who does not have the time to fetch gear out of the dungeon can just buy it in the shops.

Plus, if we take Darklight as the 'HQ' gear available, there is already a plethora of equipment easily obtainable that would have stats similar to the suggested 'NQ' version, so there would not be a need to add more items.

We need to take care of having both easy mode and hard mode of this game implemented into one world. A better option (IMO) would be servers dedicated to easy mode or casual players, and another server dedicated to hard mode players. And all content can be scaled accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

In order to better aid the casual player, many drops are made sellable. This way a person who does not have the time to fetch gear out of the dungeon can just buy it in the shops.

Plus, if we take Darklight as the 'HQ' gear available, there is already a plethora of equipment easily obtainable that would have stats similar to the suggested 'NQ' version, so there would not be a need to add more items.

We need to take care of having both easy mode and hard mode of this game implemented into one world. A better option (IMO) would be servers dedicated to easy mode or casual players, and another server dedicated to hard mode players. And all content can be scaled accordingly.

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Hardcore players will just go to the easymode server and completely own it lol.
Do you really think people are going to sign up for the "very hard drop rate server"?

"Hardcore" and "casual" players need to play by and exist under the SAME SET OF RULES. Casual players need to simply accept that there will be things in the game that they don't or might not have.

Telling a large part of the community (that happens to be `hardcore`) that you have to do this, this, and this, to attain and accomplish this, and then change the rules afterwards so you don't have to do anything... this is a recipe for MMO destruction.

The developers of SWG did this and it killed their game.

It's like your boss making you work 14 hour days for a year straight with the promise of a 50% pay increase and then when that year is up he decides to start all new employees at the same pay rate.

The terms "hardcore" and "casual" are dumb. Making different rules for them is even dumber.
SE should give us a game. The same game for everybody.
And in that game you can devote as much or as little time to it as you want, and accomplish as much or as little as you can. No special rules. No making it harder for some and easier for others.

Anything else would be absurd.

Personally I would go to Hard Mode world as I am not here for easy-mode play. However, I do wish to differentiate between 'hard' and the over-used-randomization we have here. Let us not confuse the two.

Easy Mode / Casual = Gear obtained easily by a casual player who can only invest a few hours per week but wants to get nice / special gear.
Hard Mode / Dedicated = Gear obtaiend by a player after a lot of skill, practice and determination. After investing hours per day to get that good gear.

(Note: This has nothing to do with doing 200 15 minute runs and hoping the /randomizer drops for you, but is based on the ideal concept of true strategy and optimisation).

Which leads back to the original point:
If a casual player can not (by definition) put in the same amount of time as a hard-core/dedicated player, then the rewards should be different. However, to fill the same world with both types of rewards can lead to odd or unsatisified situations (i.e., the casual player will still want to have the same gear the dedicated player does). Case and point: The world already has the ability to give 'NQ' level gear but a request is being made to alter this to be more similiar to the HQ gear.

The viable solution is segregation. The backing for this is the fact that many other games already come with the concept of 'easy' 'normal' 'hard' 'suicidal' modes.

Although to be honest, there are far far better solutions to our dilemma than this, but most would require a very significant change to all aspects of the system.

Everyone will just quit the game and without the 'hardcore community' the casual players will be sunk. They'll be nobody to formulate their strategies, they'll be nobody to craft their gear, they'll be nobody to gather their materials.

The answer to this `problem` is found in providing lots of content. Hundreds of open world NMs, plenty of NMs, plenty of instances, some very difficult, some not so difficult. This way everyone is happy.

As long as players without a lot of time to invest in the game have something fun to do when they log on I don't see what the problem is. Players without a lot of time need to stop demanding they get everything.

In XI there was plenty to do and plenty of fun challenges for everyone. Casuals camped NM's together and killed NM's together and advanced through storyline missions together and leveled up their jobs together. They didn't cry all day because Tiamat was too difficult for them.

In an FF MMO there should be multiple levels of challenge. Some things are challenging but fun and rewarding for casuals and they are a joke to 'hardcores'. Somethings are challenging to hardcore players and seemingly impossible for casuals. Some things (AV & PW) were seemingly impossible for even the hardest of the hardcore.

Nobody complained. Everyone enjoyed themselves. Everyone accepted there were some things in the game they might not be able to attain but always new peaks to reach.

Anyway, "casual darklight"... not going to happen. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by DarthTaru

Players without a lot of time need to stop demanding they get everything.

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That is the problem I wish could be fixed. Segregation would address that with a big 'CLICK HERE TO WIN EVERYTHING' button, then those people would be happy. Of course, as you say, there will be many other downsides.

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Originally Posted by DarthTaru

Anyway, "casual darklight"... not going to happen. Sorry.

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With this, little Taru, I agree and hope. FYI: As a mage, I reviewed the 'darklight' and the 'alternatives' and noted the alternatives were close enough to be sufficient, especially how easy the alternatives are available.

First they have NQ gear that is 100% drop rate. It is the green stuff. That is casual gear, the blue gear is hardcore gear. And as other said Hardcore must exist in the same realm with the casuals with the same rule set. We as humans are naturally lazy... no one will choose to do the harder path willingly.

SE and other MMOs need to stop trying to make all the content be for everyone and just make content for everyone.

There is no content in the game that will make both the casuals and hardcores happy, it simply does not exist. The 2 player bases literally want opposite thing. Being in the middle only pisses off both partys and makes everyone quit.

Casuals need to just accept the fact if they refuse to dedicate 30-40hrs a week into a game, they will never be the best at it, they will never have the best stuff at least not in any reasonable time frame. That is how it works in all aspects of life, you get what you put into it. Everyone should have the option to choose their own path in a mmo, if someone chooses the casual/laid back path they need to get what comes with that choice. What SE MUST DO is have content for all the paths. Have content for casual that they will enjoy, Make it where they can log in 10-15hrs a week and enjoy the game. Also have the 24-74hr rare spawn nms, extremely longterm goal oriented, 32man 3hr raid content stuff the extreme hardcore enjoy. Something for everyone is the key to a good mmo.

If SE wants the game to be a theme park where everyone has something they enjoy... we need to get away from just the flying elephant rides and put in STUFF FOR EVERYONE.

Casual doesn't mean easy mode, casual just means short timed event. Last thing this game need is to encourage bad players, so far every content is casual because it's only 15min-1hr long. That is casual-friendly, It's just not terrible-player-friendly.

There is no need for casual server because what we have now is casual server.

When they add 3-4hr long events, then u can call that a-non-casual-friendly event.

No thanks.

Tokens will do.... gimme 1 token per successful run and ask me 20 tokens for 1 piece of gear. That's all that is needed atm.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

I like the idea, but stat is way too close to each other, has to be somewhat worse so hard mdoe actually worth the luck.

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There you go. Fixed^^

There is no reason casual players can't enjoy content similar to the two current raids (using them as an example):
They're not hard and they're not overly long.

Raids are just not casual friendly in terms of drop rate.

That's where the HQ/NQ gear idea came from.
NQ would be something that the hardcore would get early on, so they could feel like they were progressing towards there goal, while the HQ would be there long term goal.
To the casual, the NQ would be the overall goal.

Raids are not "Hardcore" content
There is nothing hardcore about a raid, it's not increadibly hard, it's not time consuming. The only thing actually "Hardcore" or "time consuming" is the drop rate.

And yes, there is that set of green armour but that's not giving casual a reason to do the raid. Each raid would really need three sets, Green (default for casual/solo), NQ(casual-midcore), HQ(hardcore).

My idea was just to make raids (which is by no means hardcore only type content), more available/enjoyable for more people.

How about get a default set of armour that you can get through whatever at endgame.. and then leave all the rest of the sets up to people who want to engage in *difficult content.

*keyword is difficult, not necessarily time consuming..

This is what annoys me.

People who don't want to put in the effort and just want to see results for buying.

If you want something you just click and win in an hour or so, buy a MOVIE :)

I'm pretty sure the original final fantasy games weren't, 'Oh this is too hard, so here's an easy version of the game can you can do in an hour'.

I've actually never made it to end game in any mmorpg (apart from WoW when Cataclysm was release -- what a joke of a game)... and you know what? It never bothered me. Why? Because I never put in the effort these people did. These people went to the extremes to get where they got, and it was awesome to see people like this.

Sure I wished I could do that, but that helped me set a goal. If things are handed out willy-nilly then no one sets any real goals..


I'm not saying no to making easy sets available... just don't associate them with the harder to get sets of armour + weapons (none of this Easy mode gear, Hard mode gear..).

/endrant

*waits to be abused for disliking things being too easy*

(please don't assume that I think the current system we have of loot is okay)

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Originally Posted by Yellow

stuff..

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I never said one set for easy one for hard.
I don't want to play any easy modes.
I also don't want to do the same boring ass raid 1000+ times just to get a set of gear.
So my choices are... do it 1000+ times or don't.
It's kinda silly to me that they made these raids only for one extreme of gamer.
Really, I'm just hoping that in the future they could make raids more available to even those that can't dedicate 24+hr/w to it.
The only thing I could think of was adding an easier to obtain set of armour for the midcore type of players.
Just trying to appeal to more gamers.
I don't want handouts, but I also don't want to dedicate a good portion of my life to a set of amour lol.
I want to enjoy the raids, but I also want to feel like there's a reason for me to do em.

Does anyone actually have a reason why a NQ set of gear, directed at the Mid-core players that cannot invest the same amount of time as the hardcore is a bad or stupid idea?

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Originally Posted by ESAR

I never said one set for easy one for hard.
I don't want to play any easy modes.
I also don't want to do the same boring ass raid 1000+ times just to get a set of gear.
So my choices are... do it 1000+ times or don't.
It's kinda silly to me that they made these raids only for one extreme of gamer.
Really, I'm just hoping that in the future they could make raids more available to even those that can't dedicate 24+hr/w to it.
The only thing I could think of was adding an easier to obtain set of armour for the midcore type of players.
Just trying to appeal to more gamers.
I don't want handouts, but I also don't want to dedicate a good portion of my life to a set of amour lol.
I want to enjoy the raids, but I also want to feel like there's a reason for me to do em.

Does anyone actually have a reason why a NQ set of gear, directed at the Mid-core players that cannot invest the same amount of time as the hardcore is a bad or stupid idea?

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You forgot to read this

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(please don't assume that I think the current system we have of loot is okay)

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But I'll word it better for you :)

Please don't assume that I think the current looting system for end game is acceptable. I do not. I just don't want this game to become an easy-fest.

There is absolutely nothing great about doing the same damn dungeon again just to get HQ gear.

Seriously you may as well keep the old system.. I mean you're repeating the dungeon anyway to get the gear in the first place, right?


I think you're also forgetting that raids need some amount of time.. It's like me saying, 'I really want to enjoy leves.. but please get rid of the time limit and put the monsters closer together so I can do it at my own pace, but fast enough so I can finish my daily leves in the really small amount of time I have available.'


First of all -- Why have NQ when you can just have a dungeon that suits your needs? If you want to see all the content then why does it have to be as soon as it's released?

This whole 'entitlement' thing is seriously annoying! -- I'm in the same boat as others. I don't have much time, but nor do I feel like doing super hard content all the time in video games... You don't see me saying how I'm entitled to see everything in this game.

*This isn't pinged at you OP btw.

Fair enough I agree with what you're saying.

I suppose in reality there's nothing stopping be from getting a group together once a week even to just try for the darklight.

In a few weeks, we'd have a few would have pieces. In a few more weeks, a few more.

I kinda retract the whole HQ/NQ thing.

Thanks for the feedback.

Beside the green items inside is the NQ veersion of the darklight, less stat and 100% drop. Some are even marginally best in slot until you get blue version.