About variant dungeons...

Not exactly the newest thing any more, but I just got around to trying these the past week. My partner and I have had a blast with them, but I didn't hear much about them outside of patch week. Are they popular? Do we think SE considers them a success? Would anyone else like to see more of them? Will we see more of them?

Theyre fun, just waiting for them to add more dungeons and better rewards

I like them, but I would like to see more value added to them. Right now there's little point in going through the effort of clearing the savage versions more than one time.

See more of them? Yes.
Popular? They were for the first week / couple of weeks, then popularity dropped like a dead seagull.
That story is the story of all forms of group-based content in FF14.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Not exactly the newest thing any more, but I just got around to trying these the past week. My partner and I have had a blast with them, but I didn't hear much about them outside of patch week. Are they popular? Do we think SE considers them a success? Would anyone else like to see more of them? Will we see more of them?

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They're honestly really good ideas but they need to iron out some wrinkles.

I don't really know what it adds that I think could have just been added to Deep Dungeon. It's supposed to be a dungeon, but it's less of a dungeon than Deep Dungeons are. I know we're already getting a new DD, it's just a very confusing decision they've made that just seems like a gimmick where they could have expanded on their existing gimmicks. If you say the creative way they did pathing changes? Then sure, but they could have added that to DD too.

We just think it's fun, or at least I just think it's fun because the bosses themselves were fun. But again, could've just been added to DD - Or they could've added them to existing dungeons somehow. Or the bosses could've been cool open world engagements. Their direction just confuses me at this point to be honest.

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Originally Posted by R041

I don't really know what it adds that I think could have just been added to Deep Dungeon. It's supposed to be a dungeon, but it's less of a dungeon than Deep Dungeons are. I know we're already getting a new DD, it's just a very confusing decision they've made that just seems like a gimmick where they could have expanded on their existing gimmicks. If you say the creative way they did pathing changes? Then sure, but they could have added that to DD too.

We just think it's fun, or at least I just think it's fun because the bosses themselves were fun. But again, could've just been added to DD - Or they could've added them to existing dungeons somehow. Or the bosses could've been cool open world engagements. Their direction just confuses me at this point to be honest.

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I think its more of the whole puzzle and exploratory lore element to it thats appealing. Sildih is the barest of basics of that idea but want to see it grow.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I think its more of the whole puzzle and exploratory lore element to it thats appealing. Sildih is the barest of basics of that idea but want to see it grow.

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I kinda wish they added more to the trash mobs for Variant, make them hit harder, more stun/sleep/dodge opportunities? Because as they are, they're even more boring than normal dungeon trash, and I didn't even know that was possible. lol

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Originally Posted by Simple_Barghest

See more of them? Yes.
Popular? They were for the first week / couple of weeks, then popularity dropped like a dead seagull.
That story is the story of all forms of group-based content in FF14.

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Really that's the story for all content they add that doesn't have some arbitrarily long grind attached to it (aka relic weapon steps)

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Really that's the story for all content they add that doesn't have some arbitrarily long grind attached to it (aka relic weapon steps)

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Except for POTD, that was extremely popular for like 2 straight years (South Shroud was full all day every day). But we know why, and nothing else can really hit that stride again I don't think.

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Originally Posted by R041

Except for POTD, that was extremely popular for like 2 straight years (South Shroud was full all day every day). But we know why, and nothing else can really hit that stride again I don't think.

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But not necessarily because POTD is good per say, but mainly because it is/was? the best way to level from like 15 to 60.

I ran it a couple of times on normal mode then sort of just gave up on it. Wasn't particularly engaging, and even less rewarding in my opinion. It has potential, but it's up to a coin flip as to whether they will make it worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Not exactly the newest thing any more, but I just got around to trying these the past week. My partner and I have had a blast with them, but I didn't hear much about them outside of patch week. Are they popular? Do we think SE considers them a success? Would anyone else like to see more of them? Will we see more of them?

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I'd say I prefer the Criterion over the variant due to the former being a great solo experience and challenge.
But due to barely being any rewards for Criterion I stopped doing it after getting all the 12 paths unlocked.

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Originally Posted by R041

Except for POTD, that was extremely popular for like 2 straight years (South Shroud was full all day every day). But we know why, and nothing else can really hit that stride again I don't think.

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Rolder already answered this but wanted to reiterate and add that yeah it was only popular because PoTD was arguably the best way to level jobs from 1-50, which was a big gap compared to say HnH or Bozja which only was good for 10-20 levels. So you saw more activity because that content was efficient for leveling, prolly not necessarily because people wholefully enjoyed it.

My other point is that yeah I suppose the extra rewards you get such as minions, weapon glams and bardings were another thing that kept it going. Although the reality of that was due to the rewards being rng and I dont think many people enjoyed that either

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Rolder already answered this but wanted to reiterate and add that yeah it was only popular because PoTD was arguably the best way to level jobs from 1-50, which was a big gap compared to say HnH or Bozja which only was good for 10-20 levels. So you saw more activity because that content was efficient for leveling, prolly not necessarily because people wholefully enjoyed it.

My other point is that yeah I suppose the extra rewards you get such as minions, weapon glams and bardings were another thing that kept it going. Although the reality of that was due to the rewards being rng and I dont think many people enjoyed that either

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Right - That's why I said it's not really as popular because it's not the best way to level now. But wanted to at least say that it was very popular gimmick content for a long time. People will do things if it's beneficial AND fun. If the gimmick only has 1 of those, then it doesn't survive a week.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

But not necessarily because POTD is good per say, but mainly because it is/was? the best way to level from like 15 to 60.

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For some kinds of people, yes. The thought of leveling in POTD, for me, is a quick yearning to uninstall, and play something, anything else. YMMV, of course. Different people like different things, and having choices is good, for the most part. (Keeping in mind that not all choices are either good or necessary, or good for the game as a whole.)

I finished everything from the first week because I have no self control, so I liked it but now I have nothing to do there anymore.

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Originally Posted by R041

Right - That's why I said it's not really as popular because it's not the best way to level now. But wanted to at least say that it was very popular gimmick content for a long time. People will do things if it's beneficial AND fun. If the gimmick only has 1 of those, then it doesn't survive a week.

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I'm not sure I agree on that either. People will grind things if it's beneficial but not fun, and POTD is a good example of that. Lord knows I have dozens of hours in that place and I was not having fun for the large majority of that time. Was mostly mindless grinding while watching youtube or whatever on the other monitor.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I'm not sure I agree on that either. People will grind things if it's beneficial but not fun, and POTD is a good example of that. Lord knows I have dozens of hours in that place and I was not having fun for the large majority of that time. Was mostly mindless grinding while watching youtube or whatever on the other monitor.

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Exactly. I've done many grinds across many games through the years, but I didn't always find them fun. Rewarding? Sure, but most of the time when I was finished all I felt was relief. That's part of the MMO experience though. Sometimes people will put themselves through some pretty terrible things just to get something shiny.

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Originally Posted by R041

We just think it's fun, or at least I just think it's fun because the bosses themselves were fun. But again, could've just been added to DD - Or they could've added them to existing dungeons somehow. Or the bosses could've been cool open world engagements. Their direction just confuses me at this point to be honest.

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I don't think there's a line to be drawn between "thinking" a thing is fun and it simply being fun. You're not being tricked into enjoying it, even if you only want to do it once and not repeatedly.

The design of the variant dungeons isn't really compatible with deep dungeon design philosophy, which is built around the dungeon layout being fully modular and changing every time you run it. Variant dungeons require you to retread the same distinct path and do something different at specific points.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

I'd say I prefer the Criterion over the variant due to the former being a great solo experience and challenge.
But due to barely being any rewards for Criterion I stopped doing it after getting all the 12 paths unlocked.

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You seem to have the names back-to-front. Variant dungeons are the exploratory version with multiple paths; Criterion is the boss rush.

I really think it's missing a mid-level difficulty, though. They could do a boss rush that is more on the level of the variant mechanics, and that could maybe even go into the standard dungeon roulette.

I'd like to see more of them, it's nice to have something to do solo or with one or two other people because more often than not those are my choices unless I want to join a random group. Which I don't , except as a last resort.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I'm not sure I agree on that either. People will grind things if it's beneficial but not fun, and POTD is a good example of that. Lord knows I have dozens of hours in that place and I was not having fun for the large majority of that time. Was mostly mindless grinding while watching youtube or whatever on the other monitor.

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Not different from running your daily roulette then.

I really wanted to try Another / Savage varianta but the rewards just couldn't sell it for me, and already off the back of a tier where I personally didn't like the armor.

Solving all the normal puzzles were cool, though, but a one time deal.

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Originally Posted by R041

I don't really know what it adds that I think could have just been added to Deep Dungeon. It's supposed to be a dungeon, but it's less of a dungeon than Deep Dungeons are. I know we're already getting a new DD, it's just a very confusing decision they've made that just seems like a gimmick where they could have expanded on their existing gimmicks. If you say the creative way they did pathing changes? Then sure, but they could have added that to DD too.

We just think it's fun, or at least I just think it's fun because the bosses themselves were fun. But again, could've just been added to DD - Or they could've added them to existing dungeons somehow. Or the bosses could've been cool open world engagements. Their direction just confuses me at this point to be honest.

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Players who came over from WoW wanted to have savage and EX level 4 man content so it was added. If it was a deep dungeon it would have had to follow the DD rules and couldn't be savage difficulty.

I feel that we'll at the very least get a variant dungeon for the 3 city-states of ARR. Considering the one for Ul'dah was Sil'dih, I'd guess we'll get post-Bahamut West Shroud for Gridania (here's hoping that's where we'll see the elementals) and The Floating City of Nym for Limsa Lominsa. I could be 100% wrong, but these would be solid options imo.

For anyone that doesn't know, West Shroud was an area in 1.0 and the only time we went back since ARR was for the Feast map Lichenweed. West Shroud is that area covered in yellow aether crystals you can see from North and South Shroud.

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Originally Posted by Reptiletc

post-Bahamut West Shroud for Gridania

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I am hoping for something regarding Gelmorra, preferably starting from that ornate door in North Shroud.

Oh, you're right! I honestly forgot about that.

Also, off topic slightly, but I wonder if they'll ever do anything with that door in the Northeast edge of the Dravanian Forelands.
https://i.imgur.com/yTVe027.jpeg