Void Quests and Endwalker Patches

... are we really going to get through the current storyline while the Void Quests crew in the First just... stands there?

I know (and was very happy) that Unukalhai and Cylva had updated dialogue at the end of 6.2, but it feels like such a shame they can't be involved more, locked as they are behind such a laundry list of requirements...

And yet, I can't come up with a solution. I think the requirements make sense, and are great in their own right! But a lot of players would probably be quite unhappy if they suddenly were forced to complete Warring Triad, all of the ShB Role Quests and (if their 6.2 dialogue was a hint) the Eden Raids just to be able to progress MSQ...

They could unceremoniously just infodump about everyone involved in the codex they added in 6.1, but I don't know how I'd feel about that. What do you all think...?

I don't think they will unless they pop them into the 13th in 6.3 or later as a hey we figured out our own way type thing. It's why we are getting a lot of info dump about voidsent and the 13th from Y'shtola and Zero ect for those who haven't done a capstone of a capstone. This is one of a few examples of things that bug me about the writing. Where even though I know why they don't mention things in side content unless it matters to the MSQ in some fashion and tend to spend so much time looking like they're retreading a lot of information.

Much more likely is that the Void Quests will get an update at some point after the MSQ's had a good sprint at it, and they'll progress in their own way. They can't demand everybody do all the role quests in Shadowbringers to continue the MSQ, that's completely unreasonable.

Something important to remember, though, is that they aren't doing the same things; the Void Quests are about trying to un-Void the Void, while the MSQ is more focused on understanding the Void and also overthrowing the tyrant in the middle of it. They both approve of each other, for sure, but they don't actually demand crossover.

I feel like you're trying to 'solve' what's not actually a problem. Cylva and Unukalhai are doing their own thing on their own terms, they don't need to turn up somewhere else to be 'legitimate'. This would be akin to if they set a story in Gridania and you demanded that the Bard Bros absolutely must turn up, even if the story itself doesn't involve their fields of interest at all.

But but I need more sassy Bard boy and his slowly working that stick outta his bottom lancer friend. Along with Kan-E-Senna hinting at that she knows one of her guards has a crush on her if we get more Gridania... um what I meant is it would be nice if we got to see more progress of the 1st's void team and for them to be acknowledged by the MSQ, but as I said I don't hold out much hope.

This'd be an issue if the 13th became a bigger setting in the story, but I don't think it will, now or in the distant future. We will most likely be done with rescuing (or failing to rescue) Azdaja and dealing with Golbez in the next two patches, and then Zero, if she is still alive and kicking, will most likely stay behind to try and make the 13th her home again. Then can more content be added to the void questline as side content that will take into consideration what the MSQ has accomplished.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I don't think they will unless they pop them into the 13th in 6.3 or later as a hey we figured out our own way type thing. It's why we are getting a lot of info dump about voidsent and the 13th from Y'shtola and Zero ect for those who haven't done a capstone of a capstone. This is one of a few examples of things that bug me about the writing. Where even though I know why they don't mention things in side content unless it matters to the MSQ in some fashion and tend to spend so much time looking like they're retreading a lot of information.

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Well, they'd definitely have the means to get in independently, thanks to Taynor and Unukalhai! Though lacking Warding Scales, any incursions would probably be ill-advised...

Y'shtola does (rather, can) bring up Unukalhai and you, Cylva, in 6.1. I know Cylva's is optional but I'm not sure if both are?

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Much more likely is that the Void Quests will get an update at some point after the MSQ's had a good sprint at it, and they'll progress in their own way. They can't demand everybody do all the role quests in Shadowbringers to continue the MSQ, that's completely unreasonable.

Something important to remember, though, is that they aren't doing the same things; the Void Quests are about trying to un-Void the Void, while the MSQ is more focused on understanding the Void and also overthrowing the tyrant in the middle of it. They both approve of each other, for sure, but they don't actually demand crossover.

I feel like you're trying to 'solve' what's not actually a problem. Cylva and Unukalhai are doing their own thing on their own terms, they don't need to turn up somewhere else to be 'legitimate'. This would be akin to if they set a story in Gridania and you demanded that the Bard Bros absolutely must turn up, even if the story itself doesn't involve their fields of interest at all.

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Trust you to be the voice of reason...

I suppose the conversation at the end of 6.2 was more "something to keep in mind for the future" than "this is going to be our immediate focus". Nothing to it but to keep waiting, I guess...

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Something important to remember, though, is that they aren't doing the same things; the Void Quests are about trying to un-Void the Void, while the MSQ is more focused on understanding the Void and also overthrowing the tyrant in the middle of it. They both approve of each other, for sure, but they don't actually demand crossover.

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Didn't Y'shtola tell Zero at the end that they plan on restoring life on the 13th? The quote was "[...] Which gives me cause to hope there may be a way to restore Light and life to the Thirteenth." And then Varshahn continues "Restoring the Light would serve our efforts to find and free Azdaja. There is no reason not to try."
So yes, I think the MSQ also has plans on un-Voiding the 13th at some point, at which I think it would be odd not to mention Unukalhai. Maybe they'll make two slightly different variations of the cutscene - one in which you know him (if you did the Warring Triad) and one if you don't. I think this would be the first time they ever did this though but it was only a matter of time considering how many of these important sidequests we have.

The problem with just infodumping the void quests into the MSQ at this point is that if you didn't do Warring Triad Unulkahai is still with the ascians, if you didn't do magical DPS ShB's role quests Traynor is still lost in the rift and if you didn't do all ShB's role quests Cylva is still hiding her identity and just living as a bartender...

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Originally Posted by Cassar

Didn't Y'shtola tell Zero at the end that they plan on restoring life on the 13th? The quote was "[...] Which gives me cause to hope there may be a way to restore Light and life to the Thirteenth." And then Varshahn continues "Restoring the Light would serve our efforts to find and free Azdaja. There is no reason not to try."
So yes, I think the MSQ also has plans on un-Voiding the 13th at some point, at which I think it would be odd not to mention Unukalhai. Maybe they'll make two slightly different variations of the cutscene - one in which you know him (if you did the Warring Triad) and one if you don't. I think this would be the first time they ever did this though but it was only a matter of time considering how many of these important sidequests we have.

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Yeah, that's sorta what I mean. The MSQ Crew would like to fix the Void, that'd generally help, but it's not priority #1, especially not right now. Meanwhile Cylva, Beq and Unukalhai are fully focused on that side of the problem.

My guess, the MSQ Crew will find something promising, but for whatever reason not be able to fully focus on it, so it gets handballed to CB&U who can run with it to its natural conclusion, possibly with the aid of one of the MSQ Crew. It lets both sides still do their thing without getting hamstrung by the fact that the people trying to un-Void the Void are off in their own silo.

And also that whatever fix they find is gonna be really slow, to allow for the game to still use voidsent when it needs to and not blatantly breaking the chronology if you go from completing these quests to, say, starting up Thaumaturge. It's basically an essential requirement for Reaper, since they literally will not function on a base level without voidsent.

Not to mention all the ARR FATEs and quests that involve voidsent and the Void would suddenly be broken if the Void was 'fixed'.

Hence gameplay consistancy sadly prevents a complete restoration of the Void - the best that could probably be hoped for is a section is more or less restored as a 'beacon of Light in the Darkness', but otherwise the rest of the place remains more or less in darkness. That's just being realistic.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

My guess, the MSQ Crew will find something promising, but for whatever reason not be able to fully focus on it, so it gets handballed to CB&U who can run with it to its natural conclusion, possibly with the aid of one of the MSQ Crew. It lets both sides still do their thing without getting hamstrung by the fact that the people trying to un-Void the Void are off in their own silo.

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This is prettymuch my line of thinking, with the potential addition of Team Eden, ready to work out how to invert the process they used for revitalising the Empty.

With the possibility that MSQ will also lead to creating a new bridge between worlds – whether purely between Source and First or some kind of free travel between dimensions – that also gives us the means to help Zero directly connect up with the others: from the Thirteenth through the Atomos portal to Source, then this theoretical new travel method to First, if more direct travel is not available – and vice versa to get the others into the Void more easily than the two-person voidgate spell they were using before.

Or perhaps it is simpler for the team from the First to tunnel into the Thirteenth and meet with Zero that way. Though on the other hand, that means Taynor and Unukalhai are tied up with the spell, and also physical distance may still apply – it's not much good tunnelling into void-Lakeland/Mor Dhona if Zero is over in void-Thavnair.

They have used the void as a plot hook in so many different areas of the game it will be hard to tie them all together. I assume it will leave off similar to how we 'fixed' the first. Everything will get better in time but it will take a bazillion years and we won't see it in game.

We could just leave a portal open but have it pointed at a magical blender. Void beings come through and die here so that their aether enters our reincarnation cycle instead of being stuck in theirs.

I was thinking, maybe this could work similarly to the Dragoon quests in ARR. If you did them, you would've met Estinien earlier and your dialogue with him would be a little bit different when you meet him in MSQ. I understand the deal with the void is a bit more complicated because with the Dragoon quests there wasn't really any meaningful change (as far as I remember at least), so the story would make sense regardless of whether you did them or not. Regardless, the main argument I see against having Unukalhai show up and explaining the situation to the WoL (in case they didn't do warring triad) is that it wouldn't make sense since it was the WoL who helped him to begin with, so it would be weird to go back and do those quests after the fact. But by the same token, if you already met Estinien in the MSQ and go back to do the Dragoon quests, he still has the same dialogue and still doesn't know who you are.

If the devs are fine with this sort of weird thing happening (which, let's be honest, it's kinda inevitable) then I think they wouldn't mind doing the same for Unukalhai/Cylva.

Small nerco revive of this thread. 6.4 spoilers

At the end Y’shtolas plan appears to be going into the first to get light, but she also does not have a way to travel to other shards. These void quests show the team on the first can open voidgates so they can clearly access the 13th, they just could not survive inside at the time. We now have that power with our warding scales and we could bring some along for this team.

We currently do not have any useful gates on the source for us to all meet up inside somewhere, but surely Unukalhai can learn the spell for opening up the voidgates and we can shuttle him back to the source with the crystal again and he can teach Y’shtola. She surely can use her recently gained knowledge to make stable gates with atmos for both sides. The we can link up the 1st and the source and maybe setup a travel hub in Zeros domain.

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

At the end Y’shtolas plan appears to be going into the first to get light, but she also does not have a way to travel to other shards. These void quests show the team on the first can open voidgates so they can clearly access the 13th, they just could not survive inside at the time. We now have that power with our warding scales and we could bring some along for this team.

We currently do not have any useful gates on the source for us to all meet up inside somewhere, but surely Unukalhai can learn the spell for opening up the voidgates and we can shuttle him back to the source with the crystal again and he can teach Y’shtola. She surely can use her recently gained knowledge to make stable gates with atmos for both sides. The we can link up the 1st and the source and maybe setup a travel hub in Zeros domain.

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Also worth remembering, in relation to this:

FFXIV's 8th 14-hour broadcast, 07/10/22

Gaia/Loghrif's role in the story isn't complete, and will show up again at some point in the future.

Transcript Reference

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

Small nerco revive of this thread. 6.4 spoilers

At the end Y’shtolas plan appears to be going into the first to get light, but she also does not have a way to travel to other shards. These void quests show the team on the first can open voidgates so they can clearly access the 13th, they just could not survive inside at the time. We now have that power with our warding scales and we could bring some along for this team.

We currently do not have any useful gates on the source for us to all meet up inside somewhere, but surely Unukalhai can learn the spell for opening up the voidgates and we can shuttle him back to the source with the crystal again and he can teach Y’shtola. She surely can use her recently gained knowledge to make stable gates with atmos for both sides. The we can link up the 1st and the source and maybe setup a travel hub in Zeros domain.

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Problem with that...

The First team doing that is considered part of the role quests, so it's not knowledge a player who hasn't maxed them out would have. This also means the devs can't use Unukalhai to help with matters without making the role quests mandatory...unless they focus on only two people we know of on the First, one of whom is associated with optional content they can easily make mandatory. I speak of course of Gaia. Gaia has the power of darkness, and could easily open up a void rift, with them bring Ryne to help control the light. This would require Eden becoming mandatory, but anybody can unlock and complete it without much effort.

I think it's always pretty useful to look at things from the perspective of 'what do the writers seem to want out of this', and I think the 6.4 development really helps in making me pretty confident about that.

I think they're essentially setting up shard travel to sit comfortably in the 'maybe later' pile. Y'shtola's reached the point where, essentially, the theory is sound but we're just not in the state where it can be put into practice; the circumstances that allow for voidgates between the Source and Thirteenth just aren't present between other shards, even if we're now closer to understanding why they're happening in the first place.

I think that tracks for what the writers may want to do with this, because it serves two purposes:
1. Gives Y'shtola a long-term potential goal and arc; she's always sort of lacked that, and this would do a good job at solving it, even/especially if it takes her out of the 'Core Crew' for a while.
2. Lets the notion of exploring other shards sit as a long-term possibility, but not one that's going to happen immediately; essentially, to put it out of mind while we focus on going to the New World, or Meracydia or whatever. A hook for future expansions, but not the IMMEDIATE future expansion.

It also, as a side benefit, clears the path so that the OP's concern is DEFINTIELY alleviated; no, Y'shtola and the MSQ Crew aren't going to interfere with CB&U, they can do their own things without mandating crossover in the process.

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

This'd be an issue if the 13th became a bigger setting in the story, but I don't think it will, now or in the distant future. We will most likely be done with rescuing (or failing to rescue) Azdaja and dealing with Golbez in the next two patches, and then Zero, if she is still alive and kicking, will most likely stay behind to try and make the 13th her home again. Then can more content be added to the void questline as side content that will take into consideration what the MSQ has accomplished.

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This is what I thought, too. If Zero doesn't stick with us then she'd be perfect to be involved in a continuation of the Void Quests.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I think it's always pretty useful to look at things from the perspective of 'what do the writers seem to want out of this', and I think the 6.4 development really helps in making me pretty confident about that.

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Agreed - Y'shtola has had a lot of screentime lately and I wouldn't be surprised if she sits out an expansion while she works on shard travel. Perhaps we'll pick this up again in 7.4/7.5 in the lead-up to 8.0. Either way, when we do go to a new shard I'd strongly expect her to go with us on that adventure - it's her whole thing, after all.