As my character's patron deity, I can't help but be a bit disappointed. I know she is one of the youngest among the twelve, and I also don't think she has to be super sexy even with her title being 'The Lover' (this can be interpreted several ways), but I can't help but feel a bit short-changed when thinking about the designs of the gods we've faced thus far, whom I thought were all top notch. Especially Rhalgr.
The hairstyle, lack of eyebrows, almost pre-adolescent girlish figure. Her design seems more fitting for an entity like Nymeia, not the sister of Azeyma.
Well, maybe she'll have some awesome mechanics.
Happy New Year everyone.
What do you guys think of Menphina's design?
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12-31-2022, 09:48 AMGeminaWhat do you guys think of Menphina's design?
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12-31-2022, 09:51 AMjameseoakesHonestly from what I've seen of her she has one of the most uncanny models the game has done it's really...wrong and I don't think it's helped with as you say the pre-adolescent feel to itQuote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
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12-31-2022, 10:00 AMTehmon
I like her because she looks like an alien, which is fitting because of her connection with the moon.
It's Althyk who looks like a complete mess, a discount Byregot if you will. -
12-31-2022, 10:00 AMMidareyukki
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkrl_CmWAAEIk8m.png
I think it's quite clear what some people think... -
12-31-2022, 10:07 AMSassyAssassin
I was very disappointed as well...She’s been my deity since the beginning too and whenever I imagined her she always had a similar color scheme but was gentle in a mature way, long simple robes with no sleeves, maybe a thick side braid.
They made her look a bit...mockingly in my opinion. I completely agree with the adolescent factor and it creeped me out not just how young she was but the eyes and face look very off, almost like not much thought was put into it, certainly not the image of love I envisioned.
Here are some examples of what I thought we would get:
https://i.postimg.cc/ncsxxr68/B0-DCC...441-EEAE28.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/4ycTzFvf/08-BA8...-CC62-EAB1.jpg -
12-31-2022, 10:09 AMSassyAssassinThey could have made a prettier alien ;___; I am a massive fan of no pupils but not the way they didQuote:
Originally Posted by Tehmon
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12-31-2022, 10:30 AMPredatoryCatgirl
I think its pretty obvious what they did. She's associated with Miqo'te, so they went "Catgirls? Better make her all cutesy and uwu."
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12-31-2022, 10:40 AMMilkieTea
I love her design. Her eyebrows are very pale, and honestly she reminds me of a greek statue - the ones where the women have just draped on clothing. Their bodies are very formless because its the suggestion of what could be there that is the focus.
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12-31-2022, 10:41 AMweebtext
There's definitely something wrong about her face, but she does have eyebrows. A bit hard to see, but they're there.
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12-31-2022, 10:43 AMameliaw
She's very ugly. Her face is weird and her head seems too small for her body. I don't mind her cute look but this is not it.
I also thought that was Nymeia instead of Menphina when I first saw the image. -
12-31-2022, 10:55 AMRein_eon_Osborne
During my first impression, her cold, death glare sort of horrified me. But right now I'm at the point where I've come to appreciate her design. There are quite some details that I've missed on my first impression because I was so fixated with her creepy doll face.
- She's got a tattoo on her thigh like her sister!
- Her tiara for a moment made me think it's a maid bonnet, which is what she was depicted as. It also have vague daisy flower insignia which in flower language literally means "Innocence and/or Purity.", kinda fits her theme as a Goddess of Love.
- The way she moves around in the skits of Euphrosyne raid in the trailer made me think whoever designed her is inspired by a Cherubim/Cupid Angel, and I think that's neat detail if it's true.
- I liked her contrasty appearance vs her sister Azeyma, otherwise it would be really boring in my opinion if her design was a mere swap that is "Azeyma but Icy, cold.".
...Her eyebrows could do better though xD Her VA is also one of the rarer instances where I appreciate EN VA more than JP's VA (it sounded too mature for her appearance!). Overall, I still liked the otherworldly feels she exudes, as deities should do imo.
EDIT: I just remembered she's also missing her skillet so I can't wait to see that in the actual raid lol.Culinarian DPS go brr -
12-31-2022, 11:12 AMGeminaI really like this picture. Doe eyes. Unruly, and very long hair. Fair skin, and not too sexy but still very feminine. A bit more like Nophica, but definitely still closer to what I imagined.Quote:
Originally Posted by SassyAssassin
I would have loved a design similar to this:
https://i.imgur.com/eveSfS2.png?1
A fair bit sexier and bosomy, but not overly so and far more mature looking. She is a goddess, after all. This one looks more like Azeyma's sister. -
12-31-2022, 11:14 AMshadowclasper
um... don't they use mephina's colors to mark the equivalent of red light districts as 'blue light districts' in Eorzea?
Youngest of the 12 or not, she's -always- been a fairly lustful figure from that detail alone. -
12-31-2022, 11:37 AMSassyAssassinThat would have been very beautiful! Let’s just see if she looks better in longer cutscenes I guess… I think I wouldn’t have minded her looks as much, creepy eyes and all, if she looked a bit older at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
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12-31-2022, 11:58 AMR041
Why does she look like a Tsundere child..Kinda creepy JP. Hell is going on over there?
Honestly wished they'd keep all of them to background lore and mystery, I don't really think any of this is necessary and now just feels like we're watching the Hercules cartoon. lol -
12-31-2022, 12:13 PMGeminaAll good points. Though I don't find her current appearance to be innocent/purity as should be depicted for her, but they also don't have to go the way of a lolli to achieve that. The same goes for being a diety of the ice element. The Shiva-like color scheme of near white skin and blue hair is not a requirement. However, I do really like her tiara. The tattoo I also feel is in contrast to innocent/purity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
I found this picture that is little more in line with her current appearance:
https://i.imgur.com/00X0M7N.jpg
As I said before, an ice diety doesn't have to look like she sleeps in a morgue or cryo chamber. The light blue eyes, fair skin, and blonde hair all achieve that theme. Like a girl you would find in the Nordic region. She is still very pretty, and leaves you in a state of awe as should be when our eyes gaze upon a goddess. -
12-31-2022, 12:22 PMCrimen
I was so sure it was Nymeia when I saw her. I agree with you 100%. I don't feel it quite fits what many were expecting from Menphina.
Edit: Yeah just saw the full trailer again- the ice and all was a dead giveaway, I shoulda paid attention. -
12-31-2022, 12:32 PMEnkidoh
I'm wondering if it was to try and give a bit of contrast to the character compared with the other female goddesses in the raid, given Halone and Nophica both are clearly being portrayed as mature adults (unfortunately, part of the problem is the assumption of a "goddess of love" really meaning "goddess of sex" that real life mythological love deities like Aphrodite and Freya are usually portrayed as, and hence the more unsettling and disturbing connotations of a goddess of 'love' being more like a child here).
It does kind of makes sense in an odd way though having Menphina as a child however, as in, a literal maiden, representing youth, purity and innocence, as there really isn't any specific lore of the Twelve about her that states she's a goddess of sexuality and lust specifically to my knowledge other than her title being "The Lover" - she's really more a moon goddess first and a love goddess second (when you think about it, sex and procreation was/is really more Nophica's role even before this raid was announced). And given the moon's association with darkness, her creepiness and uncanny valley appearence just fits her.
Either way, it does come across as slightly creepy, but then that is probably the point - the raid is meant to challenge our perception of the Twelve as we try to discover exactly what they are, and if they are even what they claim to be (I still think they're not the real Twelve but entities created by Venat or some other Ancient early post Sundering as part of trying to guide the Sundered back into stability... only for Venat as Hydaelyn to kind of take the role of divinity herself - hence why they were subservient to her). But I digress... -
12-31-2022, 01:41 PMGeminaThat is a big part of my problem with the child-like appearance Menphina has. "The lover" does not have to [and now cannot] be associated with sex. In Greek mythology, Aphrodite encompasses love, sex, and beauty. Now, I really have no idea what lead to their decision making with her design here as Menphina misses the mark on all three categories. The more I think about it, the more off-putting it becomes with her design being that of a child.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
Not much can be done about it at this point, and we will just have to participate in the new raid to acquire more information. There might be a very lore-centric reason or cause for her appearance to be as it is. What does make sense to me though is the moon aspect to her being a reason why we don't know much about her appearance up until this raid. She might be the deity we know the least about when it comes to how her appearance has been depicted to past civilizations. A mysterious one indeed. -
12-31-2022, 01:54 PMEnkidoh
On that particular note, I'm curious as to what the design brief given to the artist responsible for her design from the writing team stated, which will undoubtabley be in the artbook, as it would give a hint as to why she is like that from both a lore and design perspective.
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12-31-2022, 02:35 PMRanakuI am sad for every mooncat out there, to see that their patron deity isn't even a catgirl but some sort of discount shiva.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
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12-31-2022, 07:45 PMTehmonThe Twelve do not directly reference the Twelve Olympians outside of Grecian themes and being the Twelve. I think you were just off mark for expecting Menphina to be a representation of Aphrodite. Also, Aphrodite was a goddess of love AND beauty, not just love. I don't think it's necessarily correct to conflate love with beauty and mature sexuality, as deities of love around the globe don't necessarily adhere to that either, plus love is universal regardless of appearance. But, if we were to take into consideration the Olympians and ancient Grecian gods, Aphrodite's beauty does partially stem from her youthful appearance. Similarly Eros, the son of Aphrodite, the god of love and procreation, is often depicted as a young child in art, disturbingly so. I would also mention Ganymede, the god of homosexual love, Zeus' lover, whose depiction is also disturbingly childlike, as he was but a teenager when Zeus snatched (and violated) him, forcefully admitting him to the realm of the gods. He was called the most beautiful mortal in existence, and his youth definitely paid a factor in that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
In Roman mythology Cupid is the god of love, or more erotic love, attraction and desire, and we all know how Cupid or cupids are depicted in art, almost as babies. Taking that into account, it shouldn't come off as a huge surprise that Menphina, the goddess of love, would be depicted as extremely youthful.
I may also remind you that Nymeia is essentially Althyk little sister, whom he raised from a baby and whom he eventually fell in love with, and they are supposedly a couple now. So it's not like the Twelve is far removed from the perversions and degeneracy which was very present in Greek myhtology. Thus, if Menphina is also supposed to be the goddess of sex, attraction and beauty, it's not necessarily way off if they are actively trying to use Greek mythology as a reference.
With that, none of the lore about Menphina seems to underline her status as the goddess of love, moreso her connection to the moon. The goddess of love title seems to just be based on her being Oschon's supposed lover, nothing else. Though in that, I might be wrong.
I understand why people would be disappointed though. -
01-01-2023, 01:03 AMGeminaI did not expect Menphina to look like or take on the traits of Aphrodite. I expected her design to be on par with the gods we have encountered thus far. She falls short on both accounts regardless of where mine, or someone else's expectation may lie. I don't feel my expectations of her are unreasonable, and are based on what we currently know about the Twelve (our Twelve, not the Olympian gods of Greek mythology). Despite that, one would be hard pressed to not say that several of them are indeed inspired by the Olympians gods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehmon
I also did mention that Aphrodite is the goddess of love, beauty, and sex, and mentioned that Menphina misses all three. That being said, Menphina was very difficult to pin an image on her because there aren't a lot of accounts that mention her appearance. There are no statues erected of her like Halone, Rhalgr, and Nald'Thal. No portraits like with Nophica, and so forth. If there was an outside expectation, it was only that I wanted her to be extremely beautiful and obviously pubescent at the very least, even if she had a very 'cold' appearance. The only things we have to go off of are her being a maiden, and holding a skillet.
Obviously we can't conflate them. As Althyk's relationship with Nymeia would be what we consider grooming, but in his defense it's not like he had a pool of females to choose from. However, if we are not to use the Olympians as focal point into their designs and personalities, I am not sure why we use them to defend child perversion when it is convenient to do so. The same applies if taking Roman mythology into account. I also believe the 'baby' version of Cupid was more a modern day marketing ploy for things like Valentine's day. The more accurate version of Cupid depicts him as a very young, albeit pubescent male. These were days when life expectancy did not venture much further north than than the 40's, which has almost doubled since the inception of these mythologies from multiple cultures.Quote:
I don't think it's necessarily correct to conflate love with beauty and mature sexuality, as deities of love around the globe don't necessarily adhere to that either, plus love is universal regardless of appearance. But, if we were to take into consideration the Olympians and ancient Grecian gods, Aphrodite's beauty does partially stem from her youthful appearance. Similarly Eros, the son of Aphrodite, the god of love and procreation, is often depicted as a young child in art, disturbingly so. I would also mention Ganymede, the god of homosexual love, Zeus' lover, whose depiction is also disturbingly childlike, as he was but a teenager when Zeus snatched (and violated) him, forcefully admitting him to the realm of the gods. He was called the most beautiful mortal in existence, and his youth definitely paid a factor in that.
In short, Menphina missed my design expectation due to none of these things. Think about Byregot "The Builder". Rhalgr "The Destroyer". Nald'Thal "God of commerce". These themes tie directly into our encounters with them. They pride themselves on these titles. Why would I not have some kind of expectation with Menphina being "The Lover", and then seeing her depicted as a frost child, who could be a young version of Shiva? In this regard, much like her sister, they seemed to have gone with the celestial bodies they command opposed to their titles as Azeyma was far more revolved her command over the sun opposed to her title of "Goddess of inquiry". That to me does make sense, but I still strongly dislike her design, and feel they could have done better.