Should the price for raid gear for books be reduced?

So if you are in the process of getting BiS you probably know the fact that it takes 8 books to get legs, chest or a weapon from the vendor. 8 books means 8 weeks of clears. This is quite a lot of weeks to get a single gear piece, especially considering the fact that the chest and weapon come from the last boss, meaning that if you got really unlucky you will need 16 weeks in order to get BiS.

Obviously this only happens if you play in PF and you get unlucky with rolls, but still, I don't understand why a player needs 16 weeks in order to get BiS.

Obviously some people might bring up other games where it takes even more time to get BiS or there is no guarantee of you getting BiS but the thing is XIV advertises itself as a game from which you can unsub when you don't want to play, and yet it can take up to 16 weeks to get BiS? For one Job? I feel like this is totally opposite of the whole "unsub when you want to".

Getting BiS should be a bit easier. I don't see a reason why they need to hold players from getting BiS quickly.
Do you guys agree or not?

Why would the playerbase agree to something so reasonable?



Therefore yes

There is 4 months between major patches, savage only releases every other major patch, that’s 32 weeks. In your worst case scenario you’ll have 2 jobs BiS before the next savage releases. At which point your BiS will be invalidated by crafted gear and new tome/normal raid gear. So if you want to unsub then do it, by the time you come back there will be new gear that makes your current BiS irrelevant.

And frankly your current BiS is already irrelevant, no content in the game requires you to be BiS and by the time any content that requires that ilvl comes out there will be much easier options available to obtain.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

There is 4 months between major patches, savage only releases every other major patch, that’s 32 weeks. In your worst case scenario you’ll have 2 jobs BiS before the next savage releases. At which point your BiS will be invalidated by crafted gear and new tome/normal raid gear. So if you want to unsub then do it, by the time you come back there will be new gear that makes your current BiS irrelevant.

And frankly your current BiS is already irrelevant, no content in the game requires you to be BiS and by the time any content that requires that ilvl comes out there will be much easier options available to obtain.

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Unreal is where BiS matters, but you can do that with lower gear. ;)

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

There is 4 months between major patches, savage only releases every other major patch, that’s 32 weeks. In your worst case scenario you’ll have 2 jobs BiS before the next savage releases. At which point your BiS will be invalidated by crafted gear and new tome/normal raid gear. So if you want to unsub then do it, by the time you come back there will be new gear that makes your current BiS irrelevant.

And frankly your current BiS is already irrelevant, no content in the game requires you to be BiS and by the time any content that requires that ilvl comes out there will be much easier options available to obtain.

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I think this is such a harsh truth to the everyday endgame raider that they will absolutely REFUSE to swallow and will die on that hill. Personally as someone whom had tendencies to try to get the best of the best in games, as soon as I let go of the stress revolving around needing to be a perfectionist I started to enjoy the game a lot more. Same philosophy should be applied to raiding.

But its also a functional thing, besides Ultimates, nothing in this game requires you to have a class be in BiS, especially when better gear becomes more easily available in the next patch cycle, so the race for BiS is kinda pointless besides just wanting to get in that dopamine. Am I still arguing against making gearing more manageable? No, I do think the game could use some easing up on upgrading multiple jobs for BiS but also at the same time I think people really dig themselves in a very thin hole when the content in this game isnt really catered to be about the endgame imo.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I think this is such a harsh truth to the everyday endgame raider that they will absolutely REFUSE to swallow and will die on that hill. Personally as someone whom had tendencies to try to get the best of the best in games, as soon as I let go of the stress revolving around needing to be a perfectionist I started to enjoy the game a lot more. Same philosophy should be applied to raiding.

But its also a functional thing, besides Ultimates, nothing in this game requires you to have a class be in BiS, especially when better gear becomes more easily available in the next patch cycle, so the race for BiS is kinda pointless besides just wanting to get in that dopamine. Am I still arguing against making gearing more manageable? No, I do think the game could use some easing up on upgrading multiple jobs for BiS but also at the same time I think people really dig themselves in a very thin hole when the content in this game isnt really catered to be about the endgame imo.

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Honestly it’s not even about BiS, it’s just that SE has based their systems on other games that don’t have multiple jobs on one character. FFXIV is quite unique in that regard and it needs to come up with its own loot systems to accommodate that. It’s impossible to have every job BiS on one character no matter how much you want it or how hardcore you play, that’s what needs to be addressed, not how long it takes to get a single job to BiS.

The same mentality needs to be applied across the board, for example glam plates, they need to come up with something that lets you glam all jobs individually even when they share gear. Other MMOs don’t have that issue since it’s 1 class per character, FFXIV needs something unique that they don’t.

But at this point in the games life span it’s a pipe dream to think they’re going to rework their core systems.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I think this is such a harsh truth to the everyday endgame raider that they will absolutely REFUSE to swallow and will die on that hill. Personally as someone whom had tendencies to try to get the best of the best in games, as soon as I let go of the stress revolving around needing to be a perfectionist I started to enjoy the game a lot more. Same philosophy should be applied to raiding.

But its also a functional thing, besides Ultimates, nothing in this game requires you to have a class be in BiS, especially when better gear becomes more easily available in the next patch cycle, so the race for BiS is kinda pointless besides just wanting to get in that dopamine. Am I still arguing against making gearing more manageable? No, I do think the game could use some easing up on upgrading multiple jobs for BiS but also at the same time I think people really dig themselves in a very thin hole when the content in this game isnt really catered to be about the endgame imo.

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Where multiple jobs are concerned, I still feel like the best way to address this is to have a one time reward of books for completing a whole set. It doesn't make it any easier, but it still rewards the effort.

I'd definitely like to see all gear cost 4 books and also for the door boss to start dropping a 4th fight book and even some loot too. There's nothing wrong with letting people start to save towards the chest or weapon while pushing Part 2 prog.

However, the biggest issue are the Tome gear upgrade items. They basically hold your 2nd and 3rd boss books hostage. They reduced the cost of boots and gloves this tier, but it doesn't matter to me because those will drop well before I get the accessory upgrades I need. One twine drop per 8 people every week is ridiculous. They need to stop treating the tome upgrades like sacred pedestal loot.

I only need one BiS.

The reason I still raid beyond that simply because I enjoy the act of raiding itself.

It's not like I no longer care about loots after BiS, but anything beyond that is merely a bonus "I'll get it when I get it". It's amazing how less irritating the experience can be when you simply don't treat it as a chore.

Oh, and I'm also a glamwhore. But ... I gotta say Raid gear in this game for the most part tend to be the worst looking set (in my taste), so that's not exactly a big incentive ...

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

However, the biggest issue are the Tome gear upgrade items. They basically hold your 2nd and 3rd boss books hostage. They reduced the cost of boots and gloves this tier, but it doesn't matter to me because those will drop well before I get the accessory upgrades I need. One twine drop per 8 people every week is ridiculous. They need to stop treating the tome upgrades like sacred pedestal loot.

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I do agree with this especially for tome accessories/shine upgrade. That thing is mostly needed in current tier and it's so ridiculous that 1 piece of Shine only available in P6S per week...

No. Next!!!

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Unreal is where BiS matters, but you can do that with lower gear. ;)

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But isn’t unreal way way easier than savage? Why would we go through savage for unreal? XD

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

But isn’t unreal way way easier than savage? Why would we go through savage for unreal? XD

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"Deveryn trying to be smart and mighty while being clueless" as usual.

Unreal is in fact synced to 565.

They already went down from 6 pages to 4 for the head/arm/feet gear. But the reality is they want you to raid for at-least 2 months, since it's a 4 month patch process to get ready for ultimate

The real problem is the gear stat designers being drunk and making many jobs require more tome upgrades than raid drops, can create dilemmas like "oh lets just skip P5S" kind of things so early in tier.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

"Deveryn trying to be smart and mighty while being clueless" as usual.

Unreal is in fact synced to 565.

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I'm not being clueless. Neither of you can read.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

However, the biggest issue are the Tome gear upgrade items. They basically hold your 2nd and 3rd boss books hostage. They reduced the cost of boots and gloves this tier, but it doesn't matter to me because those will drop well before I get the accessory upgrades I need. One twine drop per 8 people every week is ridiculous. They need to stop treating the tome upgrades like sacred pedestal loot.

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Considering those are eventually made available from 2 different sources in the odd number updates, I doubt they'll do anything about that. You're meant to clear in mostly crafted, so why would they make it possible to go 20 ilvl higher so easily?

would be nice if they got cheaper once the ultimate is out or once the tier is done,
Also considering how useless raid pants have been for ages might aswell make them 4 books aswell.

Sure they should do something for the gearing process. Switching roles in the middle of progress is a pain. At least giving a second chance if you got nothing in the first weekly kill. I don't know how to design this or make exceptions. But like it is now, it's just taking way too long for getting gear.

I'm for lowering tomestone gear costs too. Why not reduce the cost of a gearpiece that's been buyed already? For example If you buyed a gearpiece - chest for example - there should be a lowered price for the next chest you buy. Where is the reason to not do this? Any raider would buy their bis gear first and it would make gearing up second and third specs much easier.

It's OK to unsub. BiS is not needed to clear or farm savage and it offers no benefit next tier, so the 16 week grind is entirely cosmetic. You don't have to keep playing just for a cosmetic reward if you don't want to, nor do grinds for cosmetic rewards need to be nerfed just because you want to. It is fair that when some players stop playing and enjoy other games for a while, the ones who keep playing this game have something to show for it.

It doesn't make sense to me to that head gloves and boots cost the same amount of books as buying an upgrade for accessories.
I think accessory upgrades should drop from the 1st fight, and they should be half the cost of a gear piece if you want to buy them with books.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

It's OK to unsub. BiS is not needed to clear or farm savage and it offers no benefit next tier, so the 16 week grind is entirely cosmetic. You don't have to keep playing just for a cosmetic reward if you don't want to, nor do grinds for cosmetic rewards need to be nerfed just because you want to. It is fair that when some players stop playing and enjoy other games for a while, the ones who keep playing this game have something to show for it.

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That statement made more sense when there were no Ultimates, but is outdated now.
For that you absolutely need bis.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

That statement made more sense when there were no Ultimates, but is outdated now.
For that you absolutely need bis.

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They also just added another piece of content where BiS is greatly appreciated in Criterion Savage.

Edit: And since for this expansion, Criterion is due to be released whenever there isn't an Ultimate, all patches now gets new content where BiS is needed.

The only changes I would make would be each book could be traded for something of equal or lower value. Recent raid tiers have had the 2nd floor be not much use in savage as you get an absurd number of hats shoes and boots. Would be nice to spend my 2nd floor books used to buy accessories too as there is a lot more of them to pick up between jobs.

Would also like to see the door boss on the last floor a once a week thing too. It's an 8 minute fight with no reward every time you queue in.

That you people dont play the content where being savage BiS is required doesnt mean there's NO content required for it.

You people need to play Criterion Savage and the upcoming ultimates for it, duh.

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

That you people dont play the content where being savage BiS is required doesnt mean there's NO content required for it.

You people need to play Criterion Savage and the upcoming ultimates for it, duh.

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Ultimate isn't released in every tier and we even had an expansion where it was only released in 1 of the tiers. Criterion savage may change that if they keep up how it currently works and consistently release one in every tier, but it's a new type of content so we need to see how it goes.

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Originally Posted by LottaWrynn

...This is quite a lot of weeks to get a single gear piece...
Getting BiS should be a bit easier. I don't see a reason why they need to hold players from getting BiS quickly.
Do you guys agree or not?

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No, it isn't a lot. You get to choose when you raid. There's no exp penalty. There's no gil penalty. Raiding isn't a world-contested spawn. Raiding doesn't require farming other mobs for tokens and then using those tokens to get a shot at killing the mob... wiping... and having to spend a raid night (or two) to get back to where you started.

From my experience, there is a huge upfront time-cost to clearing a raid tier. After that, it was "meet up with people once per week - wrap it all up in under 2 hours - usually less."

That seems pretty reasonable, all things considered.

weapon/chest -> 4 books
everything else -> 2 books