Paladin, 6.3 reworks, what do you want to see?

#1. Intervention merged into Holy Shelltron. One less button to press, works the same as Heart of Corundrum on Gunbreaker (Cast on self or ally).

#2. AoE Atonement from AOE combo, something to press outside of Total Eclipse/Prominence spam during melee rotation in AOE.

#3. Passage of Arms as an Activated spell, not channeled.

#4. Holy Spirit and Holy Circle merged into one. 300Pot for first target, 130pot for everything else.

Mostly just removing button bloat by merging skills that should be a single skill, and cleaning up the clunkyness of PLD.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

#1. Intervention merged into Holy Shelltron. One less button to press, works the same as Heart of Corundrum on Gunbreaker (Cast on self or ally).

#2. AoE Atonement from AOE combo, something to press outside of Total Eclipse/Prominence spam during melee rotation in AOE.

#3. Passage of Arms as an Activated spell, not channeled.

#4. Holy Spirit and Holy Circle merged into one. 300Pot for first target, 130pot for everything else.

Mostly just removing button bloat by merging skills that should be a single skill, and cleaning up the clunkyness of PLD.

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Not Warrior 3.0, that's how low my bar is.

Now on what I would like personally (some of this is likely to happen too, in some form or another:

1)Shield bash removed, it's rarely, if ever, used. With low blow being a role action aside if you really need that stun, which on it's own costs a GCD, pretty much nullifies any point of putting it on your bar.
2)Fight or Flight replaced with Requiescat upon using Fight or Flight, like how Summon Phoenix replaces Summon Bahamut.
3)I personally don't like how atonement currently feels in the core rotation, even in Shadowbringers. I'm not sure what I would do with the ability, but I'd like it modified in some fashion that isn't just use it 3 times in a row (and no, I wouldn't want atonement to be a gauge spender, either.) I honestly wouldn't complain if it just got turned into an upgrade for riot blade
4)merge cover with intervention. I don't see this one happening as, frankly, it would be overpowered as hell, and would leave only one gauge spender in the form of holy sheltron. It's far more likely they would merge intervention with sheltron as you listed. Which in that case, I would like cover to return to it's Stormblood counterpart then be put on the oath gauge on the same 2m cooldown
5)While I like the interactivity of divine veil, in the current form of combat in this game it would be better if it just shielded the party on use
6)It would be pretty cool if the added a 10-20% boost to to the mitigation of blocked attacks during Sentinel to differentiate it from the other 3m tank cooldowns.
I can't really think of much else on the top of my head

They have probably done whatever they are going to do. We are approaching January so in about 2 weeks (or after because of holidays) they will probably be doing their final QA. I expect they started and finished their redesign already.

1. Intervention benefits from the effect of Rampart or Sentinel. I think they can keep this effect when merging it, but they probably don't want it buffing Holy Sheltron for us, although this would be nice.
2. AoE Atonement is probably the sort of thing they would do in a new expansion.
3. Passage of Arms works if you use it in the moment of the cast you want to mitigate and it looks cool during a phase transition. I actually miss it in lower level content because it just looks good to be protecting the party from a phase transition.

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Holy Spirit and Holy Circle merged into one. 300Pot for first target, 130pot for everything else.

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No thank you. I don't want Holy Spirit to be a melee attack. Although the hotbox in raids might be larger, there are still situations where you are at range, such as during flare mechanics. There is other content such as trials and dungeons with smaller hitboxes and they have all sorts of dash and spread mechanics that put you at range and make it desirable.

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Mostly just removing button bloat by merging skills that should be a single skill

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You can make this argument for almost anything, such as making the combos like pvp. At a certain point, you have to ask where the line should be drawn.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

1)Shield bash removed, it's rarely, if ever, used. With low blow being a role action aside if you really need that stun, which on it's own costs a GCD, pretty much nullifies any point of putting it on your bar.

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I think Shield Bash could become an ability with a 2.5 recast. Low Blow doesn't fit the identity of PLD, so it could just be a trait that replaces Low Blow with Shield Bash.

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2)Fight or Flight replaced with Requiescat upon using Fight or Flight, like how Summon Phoenix replaces Summon Bahamut.

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That would make sense if the rotation under each was the same like on a Summoner, but it's not.

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3)I personally don't like how atonement currently feels in the core rotation, even in Shadowbringers.

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I like it. We used to just do the Royal Authority combo twice. Spamming Atonement 3 times was a welcome variety from all the Royal Authorities and the animation feels good. There is room for it to be upgraded in an expansion, because we could eventually do Atonement x2 and then a finisher similar to how we started doing Confiteor instead of the last Holy Spirit.

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5)While I like the interactivity of divine veil, in the current form of combat in this game it would be better if it just shielded the party on use

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This was needed a lot in previous expansions, but at least at level 90, you can just align it with the Requiescat phase. There is argument that lower levels still rely on the healer to use a GCD which they usually won't.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

#4. Holy Spirit and Holy Circle merged into one. 300Pot for first target, 130pot for everything else.

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That's something they should be doing to all jobs. When there's a gauge/stack type ability - just make it high potency for first mob, low potency for the rest. Remove the excess buttons. The instances where you don't want to hit other mobs in range are relatively small.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

That's something they should be doing to all jobs. When there's a gauge/stack type ability - just make it high potency for first mob, low potency for the rest. Remove the excess buttons. The instances where you don't want to hit other mobs in range are relatively small.

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That's an issue as well. It's rare but those situations do exist and it can force you into an extremely uncomfortable rotation that skips Confiteor and anything after it. There is also the animation to consider. Holy Spirit's just makes sense for a single target.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That's an issue as well. It's rare but those situations do exist and it can force you into an extremely uncomfortable rotation that skips Confiteor and anything after it. There is also the animation to consider. Holy Spirit's just makes sense for a single target.

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For the animation it would just be cast on target, forcing the target to explode with holy light, same animation but ontop of the target selected.

You would still cast 4x spells during req window before conf.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

For the animation it would just be cast on target, forcing the target to explode with holy light, same animation but ontop of the target selected.

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The problem is just the excitement factor. The anmations are part of the experience and every time something is pruned we lose that. There are a long list of animations that people loved that were removed for the sake of function, but it's never been something that has been done unless the ability is attacked by the whole community or unused.

There are a lot of examples, such as Fluid Aura, Featherfoot, enmity combos, Bulwark, Dark Arts, that were just all pointless, rarely used or part of memes. Holy Spirit isn't in either of these categories. If they could get it to change animation depending on if it's a single target or not, that could work.

Aoe that requires me to target is annoying because I have to keep trying to find the target that is most in the middle every time one moves or dies. Although for a non-tank, not being able to target aoe means I have to risk standing in enemy attacks. The current system balances both those things.

1. Bring it down to 32 actions (-1)
2. Regulate FoF and Requiescat
3. Give Cover a use

Don't ruin the class

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Don't ruin the class

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Still Dreading this myself.
I just pray they arnt doing a Complete rework that will make it unfun to play.

I posted this in a different thread in the tank forum:

I like how paladin plays. I don't think it needs a complete overhaul, it just has some issues that need to be addressed.

1. Allow Skill Speed and Spell Speed to affect paladin's physical and magic abilities (or combine both stats, but that might be more of an expansion change).
2. Allow blocks to affect DoTs and work while stunned if Sheltron was used.
3. Adjust the length of the rotation. Right now you either get enough Skill Speed so you can drop an Atonement every minute, or you completely ignore it and drop two Goring Blade combos every three minutes. Giving Resquiscat a sixth charge would help with the no Skill Speed build, but having any Skill Speed would still have its issues.
4. Give paladins another defensive ability. I want to avoid button bloat, however, as paladins are already pretty button heavy. The Clemency example below could work.
5. Remove the heal requirement from Divine Veil.
6. Add a new job gauge that keeps track of Requiscat charges. This just a cosmetic change, it wouldn't affect anything but would make it easier to see how many charges you got left since you won't have to look for a tiny buff icon.

I would also prefer if they don't touch Clemency. It's one of the abilities that has draws me to Paladin as I love having an on demand heal that can be used on others. I've saved quite a number of encounters with it after the healers and ressers all died. If they added a trait that gave paladins a free OCD Clemency every minute, that would be fine, but I still want the skill available when that trait is on cooldown.

Random example: Expiacion grants a stack of Clarity. At 2 stacks Clemency has no cast time, costs no MP, and is off the global cooldown. Max 2 stacks.

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Originally Posted by Espon

1. Allow Skill Speed and Spell Speed to affect paladin's physical and magic abilities

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I think they should just combine both stats. This is an issue on all jobs that have a combination of spells and weaponskills. It can just be Skill Speed for both because a Spell is a form of Skill. It could also be called Attack Speed.

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2. Allow blocks to affect DoTs and work while stunned if Sheltron was used.

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I don't think either of these are particularly necessary. Under normal circumstances, you usually don't get stunned unless you fail a mechanic. It would be useful against the dots in Abyssos, but you manage and if you Reprisal the dots they feel so much weaker.

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3. Adjust the length of the rotation. Giving Resquiscat a sixth charge would help with the no Skill Speed build, but having any Skill Speed would still have its issues.

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I don't use any Skill Speed and don't have any practical issues. Everything is up perfectly when I need it, but I still do the core rotation as it was done in previous expansions, not these variations people are doing to work with the 2 minute burst or to optimize it on a fight basis. Just keep it simple for myself unless I really need to change it.

I noticed the lack of a GCD in Requiscat compared to Fight or Flight, but if you think about it, it's always been like that since Stormblood.

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4. Give paladins another defensive ability. I want to avoid button bloat, however, as paladins are already pretty button heavy. The Clemency example below could work.

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I actually feel that Paladins have more party defensives than anyone else. At the end of P7S I need a lot for all the sparks and I get to cycle through Reprisal, Divine and Passage and my co-tanks only have 2 of those.

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5. Remove the heal requirement from Divine Veil.

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I don't think this is necessary at level 90 but if we care about lower levels we do need a solution for that. It might actually be better to add heals to Holy Spirit at level 70.

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I would also prefer if they don't touch Clemency. It's one of the abilities that has draws me to Paladin as I love having an on demand heal that can be used on others. If they added a trait that gave paladins a free OCD Clemency every minute, that would be fine

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I love that we have Clemency too, but there is absolutely no reason to make it an ability now that Holy Spirits heal us. We have an on-demand heal in Holy Sheltron.

Probably a hot take but personally, I just wish they remove the Atonement phase, or at least let it replace Royal Authority when active so it frees one key. Also, bring down Intervene to around lv 58-65, it has no business being lv 74.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Don't ruin the class

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Its already pretty boring to play though. Not much to ruin there.

Don't ruin it

PLD is my first tank (in any game), and the thing I want most is to have tank stance ON by default.
I'm really tired of half completing dungeons before I notice it's turned itself off again and other players have been complaining about it.
(Actually, this applies to all tanks in this game, and I don't think I'll level another one because of it.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Its already pretty boring to play though. Not much to ruin there.

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On the contrary, PLD is the only tank class I actually enjoy playing. See, it's all a matter of personal opinion. I find it very fun, and it gets particularly exciting in PF's when the healers and rezzers go down. For me, the class is awesome as it is and could definitely be "ruined" with changes.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

PLD is my first tank (in any game), and the thing I want most is to have tank stance ON by default.
I'm really tired of half completing dungeons before I notice it's turned itself off again and other players have been complaining about it.
(Actually, this applies to all tanks in this game, and I don't think I'll level another one because of it.

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Just as an FYI, tank stance is turned off whenever you need to Level Sync for content. It doesn't turn itself off randomly...it'll be when you first enter a lower-level dungeon or click the Level Sync for a FATE that it turns off.

I used to end up in the same position of constantly forgetting to turn it on when tanking a dungeon. It's something you just get used to and becomes muscle memory. That it happens consistently and only in a very particular circumstance makes me think it's not worth the "I'll never level another tank ever ever again because of this one predictable thing."

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Also, bring down Intervene to around lv 58-65, it has no business being lv 74.

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there's a bunch of cases like this with other jobs. Afflatus Rapture and Dark Missionary are probably the most egregious. but yes, its ridiculous that DRK gets their gapcloser at 54, GBN at 56, but WAR gets theirs at 62 and PLD at 74.

a gapcloser is a basic utility skill for melee, it should be there at 50 at the latest. but SE don't give a damn about synced content apparently.