On mobile so forgive the formatting and errors.
I believe the blacklist and friends list needs to be looked at asap. As they stand, they open up people to being stalked and put more power into those would-be abusers.
If you are mutual friends with someone and you suffered abuse from them, as soon as you unfriend and blacklist them, you haven given them a ton of power over you. Whenever you unfriendly someone, it only does it for your side. You will still be on their friends list until they remove you. The only thing the blacklist does is the following:
Sending tells
Teleporting to your house/apartment/FC(From your menu)
Joining your PF
Trading
Inspecting your adventure plate
Things unconfirmed, but possible:
Porting to your house/fc if you use someone else's port list
Here is what they can do(if prior friends):
See your online status(includes duties you're in or other worlds)
See your search info
Request melds/repairs
(If following) lodestone info
Join parties if someone else is leader
Additional info:
If you were Eternal bonded with someone and you rescind the bond, It only does it for your end. Their ring will still work to teleport to you. This is unacceptable regardless of what mindset Yoshi P has.
I know some suggested ways to combat this is to report them. But it's very hard to prove that someone is stalking you if you port to the same area. They could easily say they just happened to go there for a unrelated reason. It's also hard to know if any action was taken since generally, you don't get any notification if anything was done.
The only way to be rid of someone attempting to stalk you is to completely move Data Regions since DC travel is a thing now. This should not be a thing still yet it still is. I understand that Yoshi P doesn't want to do it because of a JP mindset, but he needs to come to terms that bad people play this game and he needs to protect players.
I really hope I'm not the only one that sees this as an issue.
Q: When I delete a person from my friends list, I want my character to disappear from theirs, as well!
Yoshida: That would lead to the problem of “Why did he delete me?” and might cause trouble, so we didn’t do that on purpose.
Full interview:https://gamerescape.com/2019/01/04/y...-yoshi-p-walk/
Friendslist and Blacklist needs fixing
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11-23-2022, 07:42 AMThatQEDguyFriendslist and Blacklist needs fixing
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11-23-2022, 08:05 AMNikoto
I think that also, blacklisting someone should make them unable to see what I'M typing. You can argue that can be abused, but it's much better than the alternative.
Better yet, would be nice if their playermodel was deleted on my client outside of instances. -
11-23-2022, 08:09 AMThatQEDguy
The player model thing would be nice, but like they need to completely lock down everything else. It's insane that you can openly request repairs from someone you don't want to interact with.
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11-23-2022, 08:12 AMEnigmaticDodo
Yeah this has been a problem for a while. I recall some small outlet coverage on it, but it never went anywhere. Might need to pressure them with more stories.
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11-23-2022, 08:16 AMAurida
God, yes. If I blacklist someone, they and any information related to them shouldn't show up on my screen, and I and any information related to me shouldn't show up on theirs, with the exception of if we're in the same duty, which it would ALSO be nice if it prevented but i understand the logistical nightmare.
The multitude of tools given to players that want to stalk others is frankly staggering and there's next to no enforcement on it- its not even enough that they can see your exact in game location at all times, including whether you're in a party or duty so that if you're farming something they can attempt to sync queues with you to grief.
If nothing else, please give us the ability to hide our current in-game location from showing up in places like the friends list, linkshells, novice network, and player search. There needs to be a way to where the game won't hand your current location and activity to anyone interested in finding you. -
11-23-2022, 08:24 AMKairiElise
The ability to follow someone’s lodestone should be changed. It gives stalkers exactly what they want if they are dead set on finding you or what you are up to. If they can’t see that you’re online all they have to do is head over to lodestone to track you. It makes changing your name, using a Fantasia, and changing Data centers useless because all they have to do is follow it to know exactly where you are. Sorry if this has happened to you. There are some crazies out there.
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11-23-2022, 08:27 AMThatQEDguy
It didn't happen to me personally, but after seeing numerous stories, I decided to take a deeper look into the systems and see how bad it was. It was kinda shocking. The only good thing about the lodestone is that it doesn't update in real time. I can't imagine if it did. I did not check the official app though.
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11-23-2022, 08:41 AMChie_M
After numerous data center transfers, name changes, and ultimately getting the police involved, I was left with no recourse but to start over to escape the stalker I acquired through this game. (No, Momochi isn't my new main.)
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11-23-2022, 08:46 AMAllegor
Honestly, at the very least, if we unfriend/blacklist someone, we should appear as "unable to retrieve" on their side, just like it does (did?) when world/DC transferring.
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11-23-2022, 09:37 AMNekoMataMata
This game enables creeps so much. They need to change these things or we as players should start shaming them for being such enablers.
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11-23-2022, 05:16 PMRemoliaNo, character has uniq ID number, u can track every character via this ID.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatQEDguy
Coz ur friend list is awfully small, and I have to remove some people to fit new one, or just gave up on friendlist idea at all, since it takes 2 hours to load 200/200 friend list.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatQEDguy
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11-23-2022, 09:39 PMLustre
Stalking? Harassment cross platform for differing opinions? Wait a sec. I thought this was the quintessential Great Community (tm). I'm confused...
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11-23-2022, 11:03 PMBobby66
What is stopping people from just black listing people they few as bad in say PvP?
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11-23-2022, 11:30 PMToutatisit was done like this to prevent people blacklisting weaker players to try to get more wins and also so that new or less talented players wouldn’t end up having difficulty joining pvp duties because they are blacklisted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby66
The issue here is about the limited effects of blacklisting. If adding someone to a friends list takes their consent and reciprocal addition to theirs, blacklisting should also remove the friend status on each side.
Also, I don’t get why we can’t make lodestone profiles entirely private or semi private with a friends/followers option only. At the very minimum, those who are blacklisted or not logged in shouldn’t be able to see it. The lodestone allows people to track others to some extent even after changing worlds and names because of the character numerical ID. SE should allow for more privacy and safety for those who want it. -
11-23-2022, 11:35 PMAllegorNo community is perfect. Rather than the "perfect bunch of good guys" you can think of it as "the least bad of the bunch" and the title of best community would still hold true /shrugQuote:
Originally Posted by Lustre
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11-24-2022, 02:48 AMAmarandeComplete invisibility sounds nice until you think of shared things like mobs. Especially hunts. Are you okay with that A or S rank suddenly melting out of the blue without you even seeing player activity? O.OQuote:
Originally Posted by Aurida
And yeah, the duty part is absolutely insoluble. The only alternative is already illustrated by WoW, which does the opposite of FFXIV - and is probably 99% why Yoshi has it set up this way, especially when you consider 8 and especially 24 mans. I would actually not be surprised if a big reason why LFR is so worthless in WoW to the point of difficulty even getting a pop, is because of how robust their ignore system is: it does impact queue matching, in recent xpacs is even account wide, and people there will often blacklist for relatively minor breaches of etiquette (such as advertising your guild once too often in trade chat). Imagine trying to match an entire Alliance Raid under such constraints, it'd go from "Argh, I always get CT" to "lucky if you even get CT" overnight ...
Part of it I believe is actually the Japanese game culture, so I don't expect it's going to change at all. They maintain their do not party list via Lodestone IDs, and even though it is de jure naming and shaming, they do it on an anonymous board and it is so much an established part of the JP player culture that I expect anything that significantly changes this would be seen by them as far too much of a boat-rock. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by NekoMataMata
Definitely this, I've seen entirely too many rated PvP games that become absolutely impenetrable to new players because of such aggressive filtering on the part of the existing ones. I'm not talking something like WoW, where you can try, but you're hopelessly outgunned (because of PvP having gear progression and the balance being so heavily gear based there, mainly), I'm talking like Guild Wars 1, where if you didn't play Heroes' Ascent when the game was new, good luck ever getting together a group for it. Even traditional games are often impacted, as anyone who's ever tried Spades or Sheepshead on the old Yahoo games could attest ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Toutatis
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11-24-2022, 04:33 AMMidareyukki...this is the second time I've seen you say this. Do you not know any other material than parroting the same meme without knowing what you're on about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lustre
It's 2022, mate. It's been proven that this community isn't as advertised for years.
Exactly. Though I doubt the forums represent any least bad bunch xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Allegor
The blacklist system does need a rehaul though, and that's been asked for for years. -
11-24-2022, 06:59 AMThatQEDguy
Additional info:
If you were Eternal bonded with someone and you rescind the bond, It only does it for your end. Their ring will still work to teleport to you. This is unacceptable regardless of what mindset Yoshi P has. This has to be changed. -
11-24-2022, 10:04 AMKatt_Felista
"The least bad of the bunch" and who decides that ? This game is overriden with RMT discord troll communities that just can't wait for something so RADICAL to happen to isolate and segregate legit or normal players even more, for even more control and dictate over who they want clear content or not depending if you have been a good little boy paying for their many patreons "entry" / gates to clear savage and remove from the pool the rest of players even if they are able to clear / succeed in content, allowing some of these ideas in this game that is overrun with these type of people just gives the keys to the many layers corrupted CM to little hands and grow their economic model ontop of the game even further, with more efficiency to just "control", and o boi if these discord and gatekeep already exist and have been reinforced lately, as if we needed more occlusion and obscurantism of content with even better locks and keys from specific groups having a field day with the game already ?
More often then not i see only RmT apologists pushing the isolationist type of systems more and more for direct access and control. -
11-24-2022, 10:10 AMSassyAssassin
Yes yes a million times yes! If I block someone, I don’t want them to see what Im saying either, if I unfriend, remove me from their list too, and yes please let me make my lodestone profile private.
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11-24-2022, 10:54 AMEnigmaticDodo
Personal experience I had; Removed someone from my friendslist who ended up being... yeah. I didn't wish to interact with them anymore, but they were still able to teleport to my estate because....?
The system DOES need an overhaul of some kind. Need to have people pester SQ - maybe on a live stream? Find places you're able to submit questions and put it in? Social Media? etc.
I just suggest all of these different avenues because, supposedly, they don't listen to the western audience/these forums, even though, you know, WaNtInG tO APpEaL tO tHEm in their most recent shareholder meeting, but I digress lmfao
ᶜʸᵃ ˡᵃᵗᵉʳ, ᵇᵘᶜᵏᵒᵎ -
11-27-2022, 06:59 AMBobby66
As an ugly and unloved person harassment seems like a first world issue to me, not worth the investment just become less desirable and no one will harasses you 5head.
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11-27-2022, 11:25 AMNekoMataMataJust for future reference but if I EB someone, then move different servers, that completely breaks the bond right? The ring shouldn't work anymore at that point right?Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatQEDguy
Not that you should have to go that far but I'm just checking to make sure it does work. -
11-27-2022, 09:12 PMLianaThorneIf you transfer servers or DCs it will break it, yes. Otherwise, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by NekoMataMata
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11-27-2022, 09:15 PMLianaThorneHere's the issue with the housing thing because even if they remove the ability to teleport to your FC or whatever, nothing is stopping the person from simply walking to your ward and to your front door. I don't think a fix for that is even possible because of how the neighborhoods are set up. Ultimately if Square isn't going to fix their friends list/black list faults then they need to have better access to GMs to handle issues. I was able to get my own stalker situation sorted by them but I know many don't get that same option.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo
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11-28-2022, 01:21 AMLunalepsyWe need an achievement for capping our blacklist.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatQEDguy
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11-28-2022, 09:26 AMAmarandeYep, this is an organic problem with the neighborhood system; I expect the Lord of the Rings MMO has the very same potential issues as well (it's just that the much smaller player base there tends to mitigate them, both by having far fewer people - especially general trolls, who tend to go where there's the most people to rile up - to worry about and by the fact that the smaller the playerbase, the more important it is not to be a jerk if you want to do anything social in the future). Black Desert, too, but the average Black Desert home is so likely to either be completely empty or a psychedelic mess of random cash shop furniture that most people don't really even care about visiting other folks' houses (unlike XIV, where touring neighborhoods to see the pretty decorations is a not infrequent casual pastime).Quote:
Originally Posted by LianaThorne
I'm not sure there's that great a solution for it though because instanced housing goes to the other extreme: typically, instanced houses are almost too inaccessible to others. Often, you not only need to be on someone's friends list, but in some systems you even need to actually be partied with them before you can visit their home. Entering guild houses is typically exclusively restricted to actual members (so no more FCs throwing parties for the server/datacenter under such a system). Especially in games this heavily based around instanced content as the main max level activity, it even actively contributes to a ghost town environment (remember WoD in WoW where everyone just hung in their Garrison all day and you barely saw anyone at all unless you were in a PvP or raid area?).
All large online social systems suffer from this issue; I'm not actually even sure it's economically viable (especially with how much stuff is based in Cali, where wages and COL are so high that your subscription basically just pays a janitor to clean up the coffee cups from a meeting) to humanly police the system, unless we're going to go back to the old 90s days of pay-per-hour/minute online socialization.Quote:
Ultimately if Square isn't going to fix their friends list/black list faults then they need to have better access to GMs to handle issues. I was able to get my own stalker situation sorted by them but I know many don't get that same option.
Unfortunately, humans are also necessary to police the system (as we see with how poorly the automated enforcement on YouTube, Facebook or Discord can operate, and the free-fall collapse of Twitter after the mass staff departure, we are nowhere close to machine learning being able to handle it on its own).
This is actually why I sometimes fear that MMO devs have been beginning to actively throw the casual social player under the bus: it's simply becoming too heavy a responsibility to have to moderate a large social environment, while if things were more purely about streaming and e-sports, the former would seem to be mostly Twitch's problem while in the latter, there at least should be a greater expectation of professionalism to mitigate misbehavior ... -
11-28-2022, 12:28 PMGralna
From what I understand devs are worried if they make unfriending someone apply to both players, that it'll create stressful situations where someone is confronted about removing them from their friends list.
Why this is, I have no idea, I've been playing MMO's since 2001 and can never recall major drama in any of the communities from unfriending someone, unfriending was usually a result of already existing drama.
Do I agree with this reasoning? Not really, I actually find it more awkward sending someone a friend request when I was already on theirs (typically from removing inactive friends, that then come back). It has also been pointed out in multiple other threads here and across various social media platforms, it gives too many tools to stalkers.
https://gamerescape.com/2019/01/04/y...-yoshi-p-walk/
https://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fanta...orn/harassment -
12-30-2022, 04:55 AMWP1990
As someone who has encountered many mentally scarred women in FF14 due to really bad experiences with other players. I agree that the remove/block feature needs an overhual.
The lodestone should have the option to be toggled to private much like adventure plates. This will prevent tracking/stalking.
The remove friend feature should be done on both accounts. This too should mitigate stalking. Also, the player search option should be modified with the blacklist system as to prevent the blacklisted player from seeing them.
Party and Crossword PFs however should not be altered since the Party leads can simply boot the player.
As to the non tell chat. There should be an interface that customizes and filters chat from the blacklisted players. The UI for the most part is already there it just needs some tweaks in code to be implemented.
As to PvP abuse this is where things get insanely murky in my opinion. I have no idea why blacklisted players would affect queve times and if it exists, it should be removed. That is horrible for the balance of PvP and a huge detriment to the PvP experience. Besides, CC has macro commands. You can't customize your text therefore there is no need to have blacklisted members affected by queve times. That's litterally why the ELO system was invented for competitive games. Good players rise to the top and the ******** stay at the bottom where they belong.
In regards to if the system was implemented as an anti grief measure. Ranked games generally follow a 30/30/60 principle. Someone griefing 1 or 2 games will have little impact on a players progression.