A simple change to Scholar

To preface: I am a WHM main and I've been leveling other healers, I've had an interest in SCH because of their raid utility and I like the "flavor" of the Job. I know a lot of people have issues with healer DPS rotations and such(myself included), but that's not what I want to address.

SCH in particular feels a lot harder to make work in a lot of situations, especially in dungeons. Many want this job to receive a full rework but I personally think there's a much smaller change you could make to the job that would make it a LOT more accessible and competitive with the other healers especially the other barrier healer SGE:

Give Recitation a swiftcast effect on Adloquium/Succor

SCH lacks the tools to deal with situations when things go real south in a hurry, such as if the tank doesn't mitigate properly, or if the dps take unexpected hits right before raidwides, etc., unlike it's peers which have plenty of great "oh sh-" buttons. (Haima/Panhaima, Benediction, Tetragrammaton, Essential dignity, Celes. Intersection).

Adlo/Succor have very long cast times/large mp costs, and in certain situations you feel like your running very hard in place just to barely not break even. But if (on a 90 second c/d) you could clutch crit shield to give yourself some wiggle room or prep for big damage, you could still be proactive like how the job is meant to be while not just completely negating every problem you come across. There's still the element of resource management on the c/d of Recitation.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this from people who play SCH, I feel like this change wouldn't change the feel of the job too much or make it too easy, but would be a pretty solid boon to dungeon healing and accessibility in new fights.

SCH doesn't need a full rework and I wish people who don't play SCH or aren't SCH mains would stop asking for that. What SCH needs is more of its gutted DPS kit restored, not a "rework" in the vein of other jobs.

It's strange to say that this change would make Scholar "a LOT more accessible and competitive" when SCH is by far the best healer in the game and isn't struggling for competitiveness, especially when compared to it's barrier healer counterpart SGE, which has been struggling to compete with SCH at all since it released. SCH is the highest rDPS healer in Savage and is the best healer in DSR. Where is it struggling for competitiveness? Not saying this to be rude, but just wondering where the idea comes from that it's in any way needing to be more competitive compared to the other healers when it continues to be better than the other healers in practically every meaningful way.

Personally as a long time SCH main, SCH doesn't need "oh shit" buttons, especially when Recitation works in so many ways that it can quickly be used as that for a free crit Indom/Excog or can be combined with Emergency Tactics, Illum, Protraction and Dissipation to get more use as a flat curative HP heal. If anything, Dissipation is your "oh shit" button because of the full stack of Aetherflow it gives you and the buff to your GCD heals.

Now that SGE exists as well, we have to take into account at how much better Recitation Spreadlo can be than anything in SGE's kit for mitigative purposes and any buffs towards SCH's movement, which is likely what SE sees as the downside to Adlo being stronger than E. Diagnosis, just end up hurting SGE and make SCH that much stronger in comparison. (Though its honestly just as likely that there is no greater design philosophy behind it.)

Recitation is also an incredibly powerful, extremely flexible tool that SGE has no answer to. In fact I would say that outside of "ease of use", SGE really has nothing above SCH at all. I think SCH's healing kit still having a level of difficulty above the other healers is a good thing and it doesn't need to be made easier. It's good to have a healer that excels when it has a plan, and I'd say most complaints with SCH's healing kit are because people are looking at it from another healer job perspective (typically WHM, no offense) and instead not looking at SCH from the perspective of how SCH wants to heal. The "easier" we make SCH, the less of anything SGE has over it. That's not to say that things that feel awful shouldn't be fixed, but something to keep in mind in general when we take into account that Scholar is not only not struggling to keep up, it is doing laps around the other 3 healers with how powerful it is at healing and doing damage.

And honestly, no offense again but I'd say if SCH feels hard to play, especially in dungeons, it's likely an issue with a player's mastery of SCH moreso than any issue with SCH's kit. Recitation+Excog, popping down a Sacred Soil and then spamming Art of War handles almost any situation in pulls, especially considering you can always be targetting the tank and use your oGCDs as needed.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

SCH doesn't need a full rework and I wish people who don't play SCH or aren't SCH mains would stop asking for that. What SCH needs is more of its gutted DPS kit restored, not a "rework" in the vein of other jobs.

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Agreed with all of this.

Instead of asking for the job to be changed for it to be "easier to learn", if you really wish to play it, why not put time into learning how to play it at its current state? Asking for a rework is only going to make the ones who played it for years mad. It happened to Summoner. A friend was a summoner main for 6+ years and they "reworked" it for "accessibility" when he had put time to learn and make it work. Now he threw away his SMN book and has not touched the job since.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

SCH doesn't need a full rework and I wish people who don't play SCH or aren't SCH mains would stop asking for that. What SCH needs is more of its gutted DPS kit restored, not a "rework" in the vein of other jobs.

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Idk if you'd agree with my take here, but I think one of the main issues with SCH is 'clunk'. That is, when you need to mitigate a massive hit, SGE can hit Eukrasian Prognosis for the shield, Zoe it beforehand if need be, then Holos for more shield too. All AOE and feels responsive (well, as much as can be in this game's engine). Deployment Tactics on the other hand, to me feels kinda janky. You singletarget mitigate, then spread that mitigation from the single target, potentially miss people if the target decides to run somewhere, the cast time on Adlo is longer, it used to be possible to deploy before the Adlo had actually applied (thank god they changed that), idk it's never sat right with me. Hence I suggested a rework to Deployment that causes the next Adlo, Succor, Indom or Excog to be applied by the fairy, on the same target (or around the fairy, in the case of AOEs). Shields would double up, as you'd have 'Adlo' and 'Fey Adlo', same with Succor. Current Adlo > Deploy functionality would be available under this system by doing Deploy > Succor, to stack up double the AOE shields.

This would essentially work as a 'press this before the next spell' kind of modifier, to make it work in the same way Emergency Tactics does, and I think it'd be pretty cool to be able to have SCH able to AOE heal two places at once with Deploy > Indom. Would reward people who consider the position of the fairy as part of their optimization, and people who don't want any of that extra thinking can just ignore it and let the fairy keep following them, or leave it mid. Also I once again asked for Biolysis (30s) Miasma (24s) and Shadowflare (15 or 18s), so yeh, DPS rotation restoration. But then again what do I know, I play SGE because I'm bad at remembering to resummon the fairy after every wipe, I don't really like Energy Drain much, and I'm actually a WHM main in disguise. Maybe I'll try SCH in reclears at some point for the memes

Have you considered that some people enjoy the way SCH functions right now? If SGE is clean and works really well for you, why must you change SCH to become more like SGE? You have your toy, play it instead of trying to take someone else's toy as well.

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Originally Posted by Jacobobs

I'd love to hear thoughts on this from people who play SCH, I feel like this change wouldn't change the feel of the job too much or make it too easy, but would be a pretty solid boon to dungeon healing and accessibility in new fights.

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Recitation is already a very strong tool on its own. Frankly giving it swiftcast addition to Adlo/Succor will not likely change much on how we play so I'm indifferent with the suggestion. Spreadlo will become less clunkier... a bit. Then again, what's the use of spreadlo outside few specific high end contents when Recitcogitation/Recitability are far more useful majority of times?

I do find it odd why do you think SCH needs more 'oh sh-' button when they're already one of the best at preventing those situations? And frankly none of the buttons you've listed as comparison really function as one either, namingly (Pan)haima for instances of repeated attacks or to cover good portion of healings upon expiration of 3-4 barrier stacks; and Tetra/Essential/CI for sustain or quick patch up. Benediction is the only one that comes close to being an 'oh sh-' button thanks to their unjustifiably long cooldown but even then, they are also viable (and recommended) to be planned.

Got damn you people are relentless lol. Dude just wants a swift cast feature.

Note to self. Avoid healer topics in the future lol.

Swiftcast Critlo wouldn’t be so bad I guess. It’s definitely a buff for SCH which is already a healer with extremely good tools, but for something that comes up every 90 seconds, it makes it more comfortable to spread and continue damage uptime. Instant cast shields is the one advantage SGE has over SCH though, and Spreadlo is the best mitigation tool in the whole game, so it might be going too far.

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Originally Posted by Axious

Got damn you people are relentless lol. Dude just wants a swift cast feature.

Note to self. Avoid healer topics in the future lol.

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Uhh, sorry for giving our thoughts on the topic? Which is what OP asked for…

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

SCH doesn't need a full rework and I wish people who don't play SCH or aren't SCH mains would stop asking for that. What SCH needs is more of its gutted DPS kit restored, not a "rework" in the vein of other jobs.

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I honestly disagree with this take. I would call myself a SCH enjoyer it is not my main but it is a backup class that I have savage raided with and if I did not enjoy or have a decent grasp on the class I would not be playing it. The main things being Scholars identity, the reason why Scholar is well Scholar, is their Faerie being extremely under utilized in the current content that it is in. The Faerie at max level 100 has 6 abilities. this is not including Seraphism because that is something similar to what Reaper does just for healing. Oh and your comment about them being the best shield healer compared to sage in rDPS, which isnt true by the way, they are the lowest rDPS healer with WHM in a very close second. Oh lets not get started on the fact that the faerie gauge has only one use and thats to be used with the faerie tether nothing else. There is a lot of things the SCH does really well and thing that their abilities are really cool. but I also think that Scholar needs a rework similar to Summoner where there abilities feel more closely tied to their Identity and they Faerie who is kind of just sitting in the background. the best way for me to compare it to is how clunky and extra old summoner was.
Was old summoner fun and interesting? Yes they were their bane and bio combo dotes was very interesting.
But were they really a summoner? In my opinion, no they weren't their summons took a back line to those DoTs and doing Damage through them and not their summons who you only chose one really for the entire fight then just let them just sit there. For example, Ifrit egi was mainly used if you were in a trial and single targeting since it had the most DPS potential but not that great with AOE, Garuda egi was your AOE user which was for dungeons clearing but not great with single targeting, and Titan Egi was your defensive egi which could do damage yes but they didnt compare to Ifrit or Garuda and was better for shields and was almost never used because changing your Egis in higher level content was not a good idea unless you had the available downtime.
In conclusion just to summarize, is SCH good? yes they are but not for the reason you are stating. Scholar is an interesting and fun class but they are held back by older abilities and mechanics from an era that has past and do need to find their Identity in their Faerie. Much like Summoner who's identity as a Summoner was not there in there old system and became more focused on their summons I think that Scholar can be too and be able to have their abilities reflect that without some of their abilities just being there not being utilized because they are not useful in most scenarios.

There's already an oh-shit button that gives you swiftcast on all Adlo/Succor for 20 whole seconds called Seraphism.
This new skill is sort of overpowered and people are now worried that it might be nerfed because it outright overcomes the one weakness of SCH - emergency burst heal.
Stop asking for more. You're just not used to playing a different healer that doesn't burst heal through everything like WHM.

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Originally Posted by GateTheMage

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But this works on the fact that SCH’s identity is a fairie mage- which it isn’t, SCH’s identity is military tactician, even in ARR and HW the fairie still occupied about the same amount of its kit as it does now

SCH’s “make it smooth like butter but kinda brainless” a la EW SMN already exists- it’s SGE, SCH doesn’t need to also go down the same path and it looks like square acknowledges this as Seraphism conflicts with recitation which looks to be an intentional design

SCH is also second behind AST in rDPS and it’ll likely rise higher as people stack crit, it’s already second even though we current have near no crit, it’ll definitely be fighting for first leaving SGE and WHM in the dust in like week 3 of savage

I love SCH. I love how it plays. SCH is a barrier healer. If you’re waiting until an enemy cast bar to start shielding then you’re already playing it wrong. You should be preemptive shielding anyway. Recitation is fine the way it is. Doesn’t need anything else added to it. Deployment tactics is 30y and 30 radius. If you can’t hit everyone with that then you’re doing it wrong. I always hit everyone with my critlo with that distance.
SCH is heavy on button bloat already. It doesn’t need anything else added button wise anyway.

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Originally Posted by GateTheMage

But were they really a summoner? In my opinion, no they weren't their summons took a back line to those DoTs and doing Damage through them and not their summons

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When was the last time you played SMN, ARR?

Recitation is crazy powerful. I don't think it needs to be any better than it is. It removes the resource cost for both mp and Aetherflow while also guaranteeing critical healing on a healer that benefits the most from Critical Heals. Right now the only real distinction between Scholar and Sage is that Sage has far more mobility and less punishing resource management since Addersgall doesn't have a damage option. Scholar is less mobil in exchange for insanely powerful healing. Those are the identities as far as the mechanical play style goes so adding mobility to Scholar makes them less distinct. I do think Scholar could benefit from more mobility but it seems like it would be more reasonable to attach a Swiftcast effect to Emergency Tactics. That way you can burst heal on the move but that movement still cost MP and doesn't have synergy with Deployment Tactics. Deployment is so strong that I feel it should require a full cast. It's not like Scholar can't use Swiftcast on any Adloquium for Deployment so a movement option has always been there.

I want them to fix disapation and ffs change Seraphism into a fairy glamour.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I want them to fix disapation and ffs change Seraphism into a fairy glamour.

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What is there to fix about dissipation? It’s SCH’s best designed skill

[QUOTE=Jacobobs;6129244]SCH in particular feels a lot harder to make work in a lot of situations

It's part of SCH identity. It's harder than a WHM or even SGE - How to properly use fairy skill/Your AF skills - Placing her/Getting the maximum of Energy drain. You gotta use most ot its kit efficiently to make it work and shine.

SCH lacks the tools to deal with situations when things go real south in a hurry, such as if the tank doesn't mitigate properly, or if the dps take unexpected hits right before raidwides, etc., unlike it's peers which have plenty of great "oh sh-" buttons. (Haima/Panhaima, Benediction, Tetragrammaton, Essential dignity, Celes. Intersection).

A/QUOTE]

Not true. Protraction -> Lustrate/Excog (or one of these alone - Indom/Recitation indom - Swiftcast still exists.
Besides, you don't play SCH as a reactive healer. SCH strengh comes from its premptive mitigation tools. You don't let a tank without anything on its face. You can have soil up every 30s, have excog on him, fey union, protraction whispering dawn, expediant..

I won't do a SCH guide, everything you list looks like you don't master SCH and need to train more than a "SCH need to change because it's unefficient".

(Besides, now in lvl100 SCH is even stronger with 60s Recitation and Seraphism if GCD is needeed)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What is there to fix about dissipation? It’s SCH’s best designed skill

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How about the part it says "Also increases healing magic potency by 20%."? Are you enjoying it despite Dissipation gives you 3 Aetherflows?

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Originally Posted by Chajii

How about the part it says "Also increases healing magic potency by 20%."? Are you enjoying it despite Dissipation gives you 3 Aetherflows?

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Yes, I do enjoy it despite the Aetherflow skills not benefitting from the 20% potency increase. The effect lasts 30 seconds and GCD healing is something we try to avoid anyway. If I can get by on the extra 3 charges I think it's great. If I need to use Adloquium or Succor I'm glad I get the extra 20%. Either way I'm happy for the benefits the button provides. Sage can't get 3 more Addersgall and I definitely feel it when things go south in a party. Dissipation feels great when you stop being scared to lose your fairy 30 seconds. Learning to weave it properly for whatever the situation demands is one of the best parts of playing Scholar.

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Originally Posted by Chajii

How about the part it says "Also increases healing magic potency by 20%."? Are you enjoying it despite Dissipation gives you 3 Aetherflows?

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Yes because dissipations upside is you get 3 aetherflow instantly, you don’t need the healing increase to also affect aetherflow heals because the advantage of the skill is you just get 3 free aetherflows, that’s a tonne of healing resources right there

The fact it also buffs spreadlo is just the icing on the cake

People need to stop looking at dissipation as why doesn’t it buff my oGCD’s and look it like “oh shit I can press one button whenever I want to instantly get back a full set of my resources, something no other healer can even remotely match

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What is there to fix about dissipation? It’s SCH’s best designed skill

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Dissipation locks you out of fairy heals, but it grants a full Aetherflow stack and gives you a buff to magic spell healing. Seems nice at first, but SCH's healing kit has three parts: the fairy and it's abilities (not spells), the actual healing spells like Adlo, Succor, and Physick, and then the Aetherflow abilities Lustrate, Indom, Excog...none of which get buffed Fey Illumination or Dissipation as those only work on magic spells. Majority of the time you will be using your Aetherflow oGCDs as they are instant heals and allow you to do other things with the GCD. In general, it's spell healing potency up buff of +20% does not make up for 30 seconds without the fairy.

Have I used it to try and save runs where a tank takes way too much unexpected damage (under geared/no cooldowns)? Yes. Does it help...not always and then I'm left with trying to spam GCD heals on them...praying for Aetherflow to come back up and for the fairy to come back.

I mean...I will say at least the devs did improve it since 3.0 when it was introduced. Back then, you had to re-summon the fairy if you used it and Summon had a 6s cast time and 20% base MP cost....so you usually used Swift Cast for it and hoped no one died while it was on cool down. The MP cost alone wasn't usually worth it if you were using the Aetherflow for anything other than DPS/Energy Drain in your opener since back then it gave you MP with some HP and you didn't need the fairy for the first 30 seconds of the fight. Shadowbringers is when the "Current fairy will return once effect expires" was added to the ability.