Rushing new players through dungeons shouldn't be encouraged

I'm a new player who just beat ARR. I've noticed whenever I enter a dungeon, a message pops up that says a new player has joined and there is a bonus for completing the dungeon quickly but the same message doesn't appear if all players have completed the dungeon before. This is backwards.

My first class is a white mage. Even after beating ARR, I know very few of the mechanics in dungeons because no one takes the time to explain them to me. They're so focused on getting through the dungeon as quickly as possible that I'm just frantically chasing and healing the tank while knowing nothing about the boss fights or keys I need to pick up or whatever.

It's especially important for new players to understand the mechanics and to have a casual experience in dungeons. I did Crystal Tower recently and I know ZERO mechanics. I announced it was my first time and no one said anything about what I'm supposed to do or avoid and in those fights you HAVE to know mechanics otherwise you'll die instantly - which I did many times. Since I'm a healer, it's kinda bad I was dead half the fight.

This severe lack of knowledge became painfully apparent to me when I tried doing a Command Mission. I'm solely responsible for doing the entire dungeon myself and yet I had difficulties with the very first one because I didn't understand mechanics.

This should be easily fixed by simply flipping the reward system. Don't give a bonus for a new player going through the dungeon as quickly as possible. Give a bonus for the fact a new player is in the dungeon without a time limit. Then if the entire party has gone through the dungeon before, give a time completion bonus.

Generally, people don't talk about mechanics for dungeons because they don't matter anymore at that level. Most of the important things are telegraphed and you just move out of the way, other mechanics are invalidated because of the way that item sync works (e.g. Sastasha's last boss has an add mechanic if you don't click on the bubbling waters; but 9/10 times you'll just kill the boss before the adds spawn if you stay on him).

Generally, if you're looking to learn the mechanics of a dungeon, look it up or run command missions or Duty Support, but that knowledge isn't incredibly useful anymore until higher levels and even then, higher level bosses do a much better job at just telegraphing what they're going to do for the most part.

Generally, people want to get in and get out of dungeons, even new people. If you're looking for a more "catered" or learning experience, then I would suggest finding a Free Company with people willing to teach you as you run through a dungeon, but I promise you that most other people probably don't understand the mechanics of those lower level dungeons either.

Lastly, the bonus for the new player isn't for "rushing them through as quickly as possible." The idea behind it is that it makes people happy to see new players instead of groaning about someone that doesn't know what they're doing; you're not incentivized for running the dungeon quickly with the new player outside of being done faster.

Honestly, it's really just not the responsibility of other players to sit down and hand-craft you explanations every time you run a dungeon. Like sure, it's nice if someone takes the time to do that, but it's not really fair for that to be a baseline expectation of the average player. If you really feel the need for explanations, just do some research before you run the content.

It's worded weird but quickly really just means with no wipes on boss fights.

Honestly there is little point in getting an explanation for every single dungeon or (boss)fight in the game in the first place - the game heavely relies on reusing and remixing some standard mechanics and you'd do well to learn those by heart instead of trying to learn (and remember) every single boss or dungeon.

A while ago (in a similar thread) I compiled a list - this doesnt claim to be complete, but its a starting point so I'll just quote myself here:

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Generally speaking: Dungeons are so easy that it usually doesnt matter wether you know or remember them - and people usually dont mind newbies/returners messing some things up, as long as they're showing that they're trying to learn from their mistakes.

I dont think its worth to try and remember every dungeon in the game - however, there are mechanics that are repeated over and over again (sometimes with a slightly different animation or color) and its worth knowing those by heart. That way you dont need to know whats mechanics a boss will do excatly, but can adapt quickly to whatever appears on screen.

Heres a list of mechanics that I think would be worth to remember:
Avoid AoEs: Hopefully very obvious, but: Dont stand in big circles that appear on the ground. Usually orange. Sometimes bosses will place AoE/debuff/DoT-zones on the field, like (green) poison puddles or (red) zones in which you'll get a bleed. Dont stand in those. If you notice that you have a dot or debuff and the ground beneath your feet looks funny, move a bit to the side.
Dont stand infront of the boss: Unless you're a tank you have no place standing infront of the boss. If the boss turns around, its usually a good idea to move a bit to the side - it could be a sign that the boss is going to shoot something in the direction hes now facing. Around the boss is a circle with a little arrow that shows where the face/front of the boss is - if you have difficulty telling by the model, you can take a look at this circle instead.
Killing Adds: Yes, there are a couple of fights where adds can be ignored. And there are quite a few where ignoring the adds means a wipe or waste of time. Unless someone specifically mentions to ignore the adds, try to kill anything thats not the boss before dpsing the boss (again).
Stack marker: Usually an orange/yellow-ish circle AoE around a person with a big arrow pointing towards the middle. That means that this person will take a huge amount of damage that needs to be shared amongst multiple people. If you get such a marker, run towards your party and/or into the middle and/or towards the tank and then stand still. If someone else gets such a marker, run to them. Using shields before the hit and healing everyone up afterwards is a good idea aswell.
Spread marker: These come in a couple different flavours, the most common one is probably an orange crystal that appears above your head. In broader terms, I'd say that its not a bad idea to learn what the stackmarker looks like and assume that everything else is a spread marker - aka: if you get one like that, get away from everyone else. If the spread marker includes an AoE around you, try not to hit other people with that aswell. Since some spread markers will result in cone- or line-AoEs being shooted towards you, its a good idea to try to spread around the outside of the arena and keep the middle safe.
Chains: Chains will usually bind two players together - indicated by a debuff-icon aswell as an orange chain that appears between the two players. In most cases you need to break the chain by running away from the player you're bound to - there are little expections where you need to stand close together, though. Not breaking the chain usually results in some debuffs and/or damage taken. Run away from your chain-partner (sometimes it requires quite a distance) and if that doesnt help, try running towards them.
Theters/Chains between enemies: Sometimes enemies will theter to each other. Most of the time adds will theter to the boss and most of the time it will make the boss invulnerable (boss will get an icon and wont take damage. Esay to tell by the huge 0 the game will show you if you attack it). Kill the adds, then proceed with the boss.
Look away!: If you see a big, purple eye appear above a mobs head, its time to turn your back to that enemy or else you'll take damage/get a debuff/be turned into stone etc.
Towers: Circle AoE-markers on the ground with a pillar/tower in the middle, usually there are multiples of those. Each one needs a person in it or it will explode for raidwide damage and/or debuff.
Meteors: Very similar to tower - again circle AoEs on the ground, usually with an orb floating in the middle. They light up if a person steps into them. The person inside the meteor will take a bit of damage, but it prevents the meteor from exploding for raidwide damage and/or debuffs, so its worth it. If you see a meteor: go and stand in it. One person is enough, though.
Spinning bosses: This became popular in Stormblood - the boss will start to turn either clockwise or anti-clockwise will performing some sort of cone-attack (often a breath from the front). Arrows on the side of the boss show in which direction it will turn and you need to run around the boss, following that movement, to stay in a safe place. If you see huge arrows appear on the side of the boss, get close to its hitbox and prepare to run around.
Esuna: The game will now show you which dots and debuffs can be removed by using Esuna - if the dot/debuff has a white line under the icon, you can and should remove it using Esuna.
Interrupt/Silence: Likewise, the game will now show you wether or not a cast can be interrupted: If there is a white, pulsing outline around the castbar, you can use your Interrupt-skill (if you're a tank, melee or ranged dps) to avoid that cast from being completed. Not a 100% needed but always nice to prevent huge damage going out or debuffs being applied to the whole group.
Special actions: By this I mean both the duty-actions aswell as enviroment that cane be used. Duty-actions only apply in a handful of fights and are highly situational, so I'm just mentioning them to make you aware of these. Using the enviroment happens a bit more often, I'd say - usually in the form of some kind of "teleporter" that gets placed on the field, most likely a blue circle (maybe with some flavour added, like a water-sprout or something). If your teammates suddenly disappear, they probably used such a teleporter - look for something with a blue circle and/or name displayed and see if it gets you to a new place!

This might not cover everything and there are a few specific AoE-patterns that are worth remembering because they're being reused.
The important bits for dungeons are pretty much limited to: Dodge AoEs, kill adds, dont be in front of the boss, stack with your party if needed, get away from your party otherwise (but not so far that AoE-heals cant hit you anymore).
Trashpulls are pretty much limited to: Avoid ground-AoEs if you can, heal the tank as much as needed, kill the trash. Theres no mechanics to them that absolulty need to be performed.

Having no clue at all on how to handle basic mechanics like a stackmarker is pretty annoying - if you have that basic knowledge however and are able to apply it "on the fly" in a dungeon you dont know/remember, showing up without a clue about the dungeon itself is not a problem, though. A quick "Hey, I'm new" or "This one has been a while" at the start while showing that you're willing to take (friendly) advice and are trying your best to apply that advice/improve can help aswell.
No one expects anyone to know every dungeon like the back of their hand.

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That being said: At the end of the day its not other peoples responsibility to hand hold you through every duty. If you dont feel comfortable with other people you can run a lot of dungeons with NPCs now - you mention that you're struggling doing so, because you dont know what to do because no one ever told you... how is that different from any single player game out there? If you need a guide, there are guides that you can look up.
Personally I dont think a guide is needed and that figuering stuff out for yourself is fun in the first place (and easy in dungeons in the second place). If thats not fun to you, you should probably consider using other sources than people in that specific run - people who might not be able to explain mechanics to you in the first place (may it be because of a language barrier or a non-existing keyboard or any other reason).

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Originally Posted by Suicune

My first class is a white mage. Even after beating ARR, I know very few of the mechanics in dungeons because no one takes the time to explain them to me. They're so focused on getting through the dungeon as quickly as possible that I'm just frantically chasing and healing the tank while knowing nothing about the boss fights or keys I need to pick up or whatever.

It's especially important for new players to understand the mechanics and to have a casual experience in dungeons. I did Crystal Tower recently and I know ZERO mechanics. I announced it was my first time and no one said anything about what I'm supposed to do or avoid and in those fights you HAVE to know mechanics otherwise you'll die instantly - which I did many times. Since I'm a healer, it's kinda bad I was dead half the fight.

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If you don't know what's going on, just ask. At worst, no one answers. At best, someone puts in a couple of sentences about the key mechanics. Few people are going to proactively explain everything, especially when perfection is not required to avoid wiping.

Keep in mind that given the total number of dungeons and trials in the game, it can be difficult to recall all of the mechanics, or even a majority of the mechanics. What typically happens is that people will recall a fight's single gimmick, and adapt on-the-fly to the rest as they pop up.

This guide to makers is… a bit much for my tastes, but it gets the idea across that fights tend to be built up from standard(-ish), recognizable building blocks, which is why perfect recall isn't necessary. Later fights also tend to have a "learning phase," where mechanics come out one-by-one, and a "let's have fun phase," where the mechanics start getting piled on top of each other.

Honestly, just watch a video for said dungeon or raids before you do it. Done. You know what mechanics come up and thus leaves you time to focus on what buttons you need to hit. Trials though have cool set pieces and story moments built into them so I'd say keep those blind if you care alot about the story. But most guides even then will not spoil big story pieces.

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Originally Posted by Yeastyloins

Honestly, just watch a video for said dungeon or raids before you do it. Done. You know what mechanics come up and thus leaves you time to focus on what buttons you need to hit. Trials though have cool set pieces and story moments built into them so I'd say keep those blind if you care alot about the story. But most guides even then will not spoil big story pieces.

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I dont think most players want walkthroughs, might as well just install one of those where to stand mods and be done with it. They want a quick explanation of something that makes no sense. Some mechanics are quite abstract and new players can be stood scratching their heads wondering what the heck just happened.


Anyhow, running content for the first time will be challenging and sometimes dense. That feeling of lostness can feel exaggerated when running content with people who have done it many times before. But, thats quite normal and dont feel bad if you die, someone else dies, or arent keeping up with a synced level 90 in endgame raid gear. You just... wont.


As you play through content you will start seeing variations of the same mechanics over and over. Also, as you level other jobs you will repeat the same content over and over which helps cement mechanics and stuff in your mind.

At times players can start to forget that they've probably ran the same dungeon 30, 40, 50, 100 times over. So if anyone is rude, ignore it but look inwardly as to how you could do better.

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Originally Posted by Suicune

I'm a new player who just beat ARR. I've noticed whenever I enter a dungeon, a message pops up that says a new player has joined and there is a bonus for completing the dungeon quickly but the same message doesn't appear if all players have completed the dungeon before. This is backwards.

My first class is a white mage. Even after beating ARR, I know very few of the mechanics in dungeons because no one takes the time to explain them to me. They're so focused on getting through the dungeon as quickly as possible that I'm just frantically chasing and healing the tank while knowing nothing about the boss fights or keys I need to pick up or whatever.

It's especially important for new players to understand the mechanics and to have a casual experience in dungeons. I did Crystal Tower recently and I know ZERO mechanics. I announced it was my first time and no one said anything about what I'm supposed to do or avoid and in those fights you HAVE to know mechanics otherwise you'll die instantly - which I did many times. Since I'm a healer, it's kinda bad I was dead half the fight.

This severe lack of knowledge became painfully apparent to me when I tried doing a Command Mission. I'm solely responsible for doing the entire dungeon myself and yet I had difficulties with the very first one because I didn't understand mechanics.

This should be easily fixed by simply flipping the reward system. Don't give a bonus for a new player going through the dungeon as quickly as possible. Give a bonus for the fact a new player is in the dungeon without a time limit. Then if the entire party has gone through the dungeon before, give a time completion bonus.

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Agreed and that is why I do not dungeon unless I abso lutely have to (msq) or really want that shiny enough to be miserable hehe.

If it's an MSQ dungeon then they are slowly adding duty support to each one so you can go at your own pace and learn the fights. They also are making it so that once you see a certain marker or aoe style that it won't change somewhere else down the line. As a few others have said if you want to know how a fight is done just ask. We're not mind readers. We don't know if that new player really is a new player or someone on an alt. People don't give boss mechanics because they've been yelled at too many times for doing so. Or the boss has already gotten pulled before someone is even able to type in the mechanics. Heck some bosses have enough mechanics that it's hard to just give the cliff notes about them. As not everyone wants to or will read a "short" paragraph about how to do a boss. Even then there are things people could tell you that make no sense until you're actually at that point. If a wipe happens then just ask the party why did you wipe or why did you die or why did Jimmy keep on getting all that candy er vuln stacks and thus dying.

Dungeons aren't so bad, but yeah, every raid and trial you'll meet is just, go figure it out yourself.

But to be fair, that's how max level players learn too, when the last new raids hit, you jump in and watch what the boss does and learn from it.

It's fine if you die a couple times, as long as you try and pay attention to what killed you and learn from it!

Don't just stare at the boss cast bar, also look at what the boss is doing, many raid bosses have telltale signs of what's gonna happen if you just look at them.

And don't feel bad if you can't remember them all, if I get into an older raid or trial I often forget the mechanics too and have to relearn during the fight hehe.

But most bosses share tons of mechanics so make sure to learn what a stack marker is, to look away from the evil eye, etc etc .... if you know these, you probably know half the fight of any raid in the game.

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Originally Posted by Suicune

My first class is a white mage. Even after beating ARR, I know very few of the mechanics in dungeons because no one takes the time to explain them to me.

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As has already been said, if you feel you need an explanation then it will almost always fall on you to ask for it. A lot of new players feel the opposite, and want to solve mechanics for themselves. They get mad and yell at experienced players for explaining things without being asked first. Between that and not knowing if a first time run is an actual new player or someone running an alt you will very rarely see people offer pre-emptive explanations. Even for not-obvious mechanics where the fail state is death, many will wait until AFTER a party wipe to ask if anyone needs an explanation - just to make sure people get a chance to see things first.

Another reason people say nothing and just go is because there are players out there that will get mad about anything being explained or spoiled for them.

Am I crazy? I've been playing this game since ARR and I've never seen anything in the new player message that says "quickly", all I recall it saying is "one or more party members haven't completed this, X tomes of Y will be awarded upon completion."

Is there another message? I've never thought that there was any kind of criteria on the new player bonus that required a quick or wipeless completion, just getting the new player through the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Akonyl

Am I crazy? I've been playing this game since ARR and I've never seen anything in the new player message that says "quickly", all I recall it saying is "one or more party members haven't completed this, X tomes of Y will be awarded upon completion."

Is there another message? I've never thought that there was any kind of criteria on the new player bonus that required a quick or wipeless completion, just getting the new player through the dungeon.

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I believe it says what you put but it's "a Swift Completion" and maybe that's where the OP is getting it from

It's hard to really say a quick rundown of mechanics in a duty, especially Alliance Roulette, but I can give some generalized advice to carry of off Vidu's excellent post:

If a boss suddenly jumps to another side of the room, watch your teammates: are the moving toward the boss? If they are, move with them. If they are moving away, move with them.

Dying is fine, I never get mad at a new player who has died to a mechanic, and I don't think that's the norm for others either. You might occasionally meet a jerkwad who will get mad, but they aren't the norm. If you're on the ground for an extended amount of time, watch how the fight plays out. Look to see what buffs/debuffs the boss may have, and what each cast or ability cast does as the boss uses it. Sometimes in the heat of the moment you won't see how the mechanic resolves, but having a calm moment to see it makes it make a lot of sense, I find.

If you find it easier to see when the boss is casting something by using a Focus Target bar, don't be afraid to use that, especially if you're going between a boss and healing a party member. I believe on PC it's Ctrl + F, I'm not sure if you're on a controller though, sorry! Having that bar up means you can see when a cast is happening while you don't have the boss targeted, so you aren't taken by surprise.

Zoom your camera out enough so you can see the arena clearly; having the full picture is always helpful, even moreso in the larger raids. If someone has marked themselves with the Safety Dorito (the triangle above their head), you can see it much easier if your camera is out. While a mechanic is being resolved, take a look around or what the boss is doing to understand it a bit more. I'm a very visual person, so seeing something resolve and how/why helps me a ton. There's a boss in some of the later alliance raids where you have to look at your surroundings to find the safe zone (ShB Raid 2, second to last boss with the screens, if you know you know) but once you're in the safe area, seeing how it works makes it easy to resolve every time.

Go in to some older dungeons with Duty Support/Trusts, MSQ dungeons only. While the NPCs will move where they need to be for mechanics, following them also does help in "why are we moving? Oh, I see this cast going off, and now I know it does this." If I want to figure out a mechanic more in a dungeon that I had issues with, I do that myself.

Overall, it's okay if you're still learning! You'll see a lot of these dungeons and alliance raids quite a bit and you'll start picking it up. :) Even older players struggle in new content, especially the harder content like the raids or EX/Savage/Ultimate fights. What matters is what you take out of it. You'll catch yourself resolving a mechanic and you'll go "OH! I DID IT!" soon enough.

Communication is key. At the start of the dungeon tell the others you're new and politely ask to go slow and explain things. Most people will gladly do that and if they don't you haven't lost anything by asking.
Don't be shy, most people will be helpful to new players. But you need to let them know, they can't know if you're actually a new player or the character is just an alt.

Even Veteran players mess up too, like if you can use discord for voice chat, all the better, cuz watching a video of XYZ mechanics for said boss just goes over my head like a tsunami.
So, people explaining down the mic what to do is better for me, and a ton of other players, so if you're in a FC that has a discord, don't be afraid to ask them to explain mechanics, even if you just listen to them and not talk at all.

I've been playing for the past 14-15 months, I've hit level endgame, done most of the content. There are STILL dungeons I will die to, and not even I understand the mechs behind CT, CT is weird, its from a time when they still wernt sure where to go on mechanics dungeon/raid design, and is what? 9 years old? All the MSQ dungeons have been reworked to play more consistantly, while if you run say, Wanderers Palace there are mechs in there you wont see anywhere else and are nothing like mechs in other dungeons.

The reason why we "rush" is that most of us? we've seen that dungeon a dozen times or more. we know the mechs, and the only time we really explain the mechanics is when things will really mess you up, but honestly you're not gonna start seeing stuff like that until Holminster Switch in ShB, then thats when you need to start paying attention to cast bars, and exactly WHAT the boss is doing.

Also, we get the same reward for new players regardless of time taken. Not sure why its worded like that TBH.

There are mechanics in normal content?

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Originally Posted by Jebatus

There are mechanics in normal content?

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Yes there are.

It’s not like 80/90s content is any threat what so ever.


Ima be real healing stone vigil is as hard as the game gets

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Originally Posted by Jirah

It’s not like 80/90s content is any threat what so ever.

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Unlike the early dungeons, late dungeons at least have very notible mechanics in the boss fights.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Ima be real healing stone vigil is as hard as the game gets

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Boss wise this one is easy though. Its only the dungeon itself that has some tankier enemies and can cause wipes because of that.

I would say cutters cry is the first dungeon where a boss fight shows a nasty mechanic (especialy when people do not read chat).

Qarns doom mechanic might be punishing at first, but isnt realy nasty since all the queues are easily shown. Where in cutters cry chat is most reliable, but depending on filters might not show the relevant info.

I dunno about anyone else but when I tank a dungeon I always ask if it's anybody first time for any dungeon before storm blood. Then I stop before each boss to explain mechanics if they're more complicated than tank and spank (even if gear differences make them effectively tank and spank in practice). It's less common of a thing since the rework for trusts though. I lucked out and had that service provided for me by random and friends and I try to pass it on because it really helped me get a grounding for dungeon play going forward.

I've played since 2.0 and I completely agree. I hope they keep adding walls going forward.

This is an MMO where you respect other players play styles! Maybe think about the minority who is struggling?

Selfish is not the word!

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Originally Posted by DivineP

I've played since 2.0 and I completely agree. I hope they keep adding walls going forward.

This is an MMO where you respect other players play styles! Maybe think about the minority who is struggling?

Selfish is not the word!

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If you can't commit to the time limit then don't que.

im sorry that you have been hurried around.

as sprout, back in the 60's, i remember getting much needed confidence boost by just checking out videoguide.
ARR dungeons arent so hard content that you need guide for mechanics, but it's new experience to you where it is probably some leveling roulette to someone else.
you having some idea whats up ahead will bring you closer to your partymembers' level, and that is what makes the experience nicer for you too.

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Originally Posted by shadowclasper

I dunno about anyone else but when I tank a dungeon I always ask if it's anybody first time for any dungeon before storm blood. Then I stop before each boss to explain mechanics if they're more complicated than tank and spank (even if gear differences make them effectively tank and spank in practice).

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I discourage this. The mechanics are almost always so simple people should be able to figure it out after they've had a proper opportunity to die to them, if they're even in danger of dying at all. If after they see the mechanic a couple times they don't figure it out, they can ask. I'll make exceptions for mechanics that will wipe the party if one person fails or if the mechanic involves something they haven't seen enough times elsewhere in the game yet, i.e., in Emanation "press duty action button whenever orbs appear then grab an orb", because by that point the only other place they've seen the duty button would have been the stealth quest with the smoke bombs and most people have forgotten the button exists by the time they see it again in Emanation.

If people want a thorough explanation of mechanics they should look up a guide instead of expecting the party to type up a guide on the fly, and people should not spoil non-party-wiping mechanics just because the chat log says someone is new. Some people like to be surprised by mechanics, and it's rude to spoil them if they don't ask.

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Originally Posted by DivineP

I've played since 2.0 and I completely agree. I hope they keep adding walls going forward.

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I rather see soft walls (effectively a player chosen wall where they prefer to clear up enemies before they continue) than hard walls. Stone vigil has this done very well since w2w pulls there are a guaranteed wipe for the team, yet you can choose which groups you combine. There is a reason this one is often mentioned because its simply a very well designed dungeon by being one of the very few where you actualy face danger.

Instead of 2 mob groups, make the section exist out of 5 groups, of which especialy group 2 and 4 are dealing significantly more damage, and you make w2w pulls impossible, yet still allow people to 'rush' the content. Rushing isnt bad perse, as it rewards skilled players by saving time. But by discouraging this by making the penalty of failure higher, you can have more variety in playstyles of which a lot of them are still fine.

I think that if the dungeon sections are made harder, the requirement of 3 bosses isnt even needed. Especialy since in the latest one the first fight is basicly just a fight against smaller mobs, with some additional hazards. These hazards are no diffirent to the 'random' dragon spitting some fire in the path. Hard walls are a nice queue to hint the team that cleaning up the enemies here is recommended. But this hint is also dumbing down the game. And if the wall is just a blockade for slowing down, then the enemies themselve are simply not strong enough.

But i think the main issue here is the WHM with holy. This aoe stun with easily 6 seconds of stun duration gives often enough time to take out a pack of enemies and thin them out enough to prevent the tank from death. Its such a powerful tool for w2w pulls that even if you buff the enemies, the WHM very likely would still enable this. The only counter here would be if the enemies get effective stun resistance: for example stun durations are capped to 1s on those enemies, allowing their abilities to be interupted, but not make them completely stunlockable (after 3 stun cycles they become stun immune, instead of the current 7, which especialy when only a portion of the enemies have this, means the whm can still support those full 7 seconds, but after 3 seconds can already be forced to start avoiding aoes). Alternatively, enemies can be an active shield for the smaller mobs preventing them from being stunned entirely (demanding focussed fire and delaying the WHM power).
(and yes, stone vigil doesnt allow holy)

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Originally Posted by Rongway

I discourage this. The mechanics are almost always so simple people should be able to figure it out after they've had a proper opportunity to die to them, if they're even in danger of dying at all. If after they see the mechanic a couple times they don't figure it out, they can ask. I'll make exceptions for mechanics that will wipe the party if one person fails or if the mechanic involves something they haven't seen enough times elsewhere in the game yet, i.e., in Emanation "press duty action button whenever orbs appear then grab an orb", because by that point the only other place they've seen the duty button would have been the stealth quest with the smoke bombs and most people have forgotten the button exists by the time they see it again in Emanation.

If people want a thorough explanation of mechanics they should look up a guide instead of expecting the party to type up a guide on the fly, and people should not spoil non-party-wiping mechanics just because the chat log says someone is new. Some people like to be surprised by mechanics, and it's rude to spoil them if they don't ask.

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Because being an ass about it is totally a thing that makes our community great. This shit is what began to kill wow.

It adds another 3-5 minutes to the dungeon and hardly hurts a thing, if I was doing it for post stormblood dungeons that'd be one thing, but it hurts nothing to ask if folks are new and need the explanations

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Originally Posted by shadowclasper

Because being an ass about it is totally a thing that makes our community great. This shit is what began to kill wow.

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If you read what I wrote and thought "what an ass", that's a you problem. My entire post is predicated on people being smart enough to figure out mechanics or ask without being babysat except when the game throws a new UI button at them that they only ever saw once before in which case they might need a little reminder of its existence. You do people a disservice by explaining the mechanics just because someone is new. It takes away their opportunity to see the mechanics and figure them out for themselves if they want to be surprised; or it holds the entire party hostage to explain things to one person when failing the mechanic wouldn't be significantly different than getting it right. Even if someone asks for a mechanics explanation, most fights are one of the following:

• "dodge things"
• "dodge things, kill adds"
• "dodge things, ignore adds"
• "dodge things, click the thing when it appears"
• "dodge things, wait until the floor turns blue before you click the thing"

Yes, almost every fight in the game is this simple. And when it's not, a simple one line instruction handles it, e.g., "grab one orb whenever the buff runs out". You don't need to type out a guide, and if a guide is what they want, there are plenty online that they can consult before entering the duty.

Outside of Extreme/Savage/Ultimate content, which people should prepare for on their own before entering, there are only a handful of critical mechanics in the entire game people might need to be warned about so that the party doesn't wipe (e.g., Seat of Sacrifice ATE). In the vast majority of content, you just don't need to spoil things. If they fail the mechanic once, they're unlikely to die, and if they do die, oh well, it costs someone else a single cooldown to recover from it. The stakes are that low.

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Originally Posted by shadowclasper

Because being an ass about it is totally a thing that makes our community great. This shit is what began to kill wow.

It adds another 3-5 minutes to the dungeon and hardly hurts a thing, if I was doing it for post stormblood dungeons that'd be one thing, but it hurts nothing to ask if folks are new and need the explanations

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I hate it when people do that when its my first time in a dungeon - I've been playing since ARR beta and I still hate it when people do that in the new mainquest dungeon on the second day since patch release. I prefer to figure mechanics out for myself, thank you very much - which is why I've opted to disable my chat right after greeting everyone to avoid any spoilers.

At the very least you should ask people if they want an explantion, not if they're new and "need" one. I've been in quite a few runs where someone decided that the new person "needed" an explantion because letting them figure it out themself would've slowed down the run to much - not taking into account that the person in question would've prefered going in blind. Personally I've requested quite a few times not to explain boss mechanics to me (and I usually get them right the first or second time anyways) but people ignored that request, so disabled chat it is for me now...

So yeah, it does hurt a thing to just automatically go into explain-mode.

I think people need to keep in what what type of game this is... MMORPG. If you don't want to deal with people, including instances of actually talking in chat or variances in how the other characters in your party play- maybe go play a console game. Or maybe use Duty Support yourself. You'll get a nice consistent playthrough like that.

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Originally Posted by shadowclasper

Because being an ass about it is totally a thing that makes our community great. This shit is what began to kill wow.

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Community was a non factor, in fact WOW has the better community

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Originally Posted by dspguy

maybe go play a console game

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*Looks at FFXIV* wait whut?

MMORPG is a too generic term, a world wide large truck simulator server can already be an MMORPG, even if there are no collisions are there and you just see the others drive. You can have a duel by trying to be the most efficient driver (route planning etc), and by that still allow interactions which is required, but keep that whole part optional.

So sadly, your argument doesnt realy work here.

But the issue is player interaction in general anyway. Regardless of gametype, there are always diffirent types of players. Just like having a pubstomper in a shooter they can be disruptive, while doing nothing wrong. Rushing in FFXIV also isnt. But having tools to avoid this is obviously welcome, and if that can be done with players, why not? (actualy we know the answer here: queue times arent popular for content that is just taking longer vs the short route). So on that part i do agree, play a game where such interactions cant happen if you dont want that. And otherwise, just accept and move on.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

I hate it when people do that when its my first time in a dungeon - I've been playing since ARR beta and I still hate it when people do that in the new mainquest dungeon on the second day since patch release. I prefer to figure mechanics out for myself, thank you very much - which is why I've opted to disable my chat right after greeting everyone to avoid any spoilers.

At the very least you should ask people if they want an explantion, not if they're new and "need" one. I've been in quite a few runs where someone decided that the new person "needed" an explantion because letting them figure it out themself would've slowed down the run to much - not taking into account that the person in question would've prefered going in blind. Personally I've requested quite a few times not to explain boss mechanics to me (and I usually get them right the first or second time anyways) but people ignored that request, so disabled chat it is for me now...

So yeah, it does hurt a thing to just automatically go into explain-mode.

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Fair enough here

I've been yelled at, before the new ToS took place countless times, so much that i only give small important hints, such as you can fall off a platform here so be careful.
People usually start instantly after the barrier drops so theres no time to explain stuff while in the middle of the fight. Sad but true nowadays in terms of new players.

I mean some people don't even wait for others being in video cutscene. They just pull.
Sometimes theres a hold up, there are new players in a cutscene message from someone