New Beast Quests go against the theme

I don't know if anyone else has gotten this feeling for the Omicron beast tribe quests; but to me, they seem to go against Endwalker's theme about moving forward.

It would be one thing for the quests to be the Omicronians, Ea and the Dragons try to create something out of the new lease on life they've been given with Ultima Thule (and honestly, i think it would have been more compelling considering the history 2/3 of them have). However, 'reviving' the races from the Dead Ends, and then recreating the idyllic version of the planets, seems to be a step back from the theme that was pushed through the expansion.

Maybe its just me, or maybe one of you can explain why it works thematically for the expansion.

I agree with you that it feels contradictory, but the truth is that themes are rarely ever applied with absolute consistency, especially in longer form fiction. As many people have pointed out, even in base Endwalker, you bringing the Scions back from the dead at the climax of Ultima Thule goes against the broader theme of accepting loss and death rather than trying to reverse it. As is often so, this is because the goals of the work as a piece of art (conveying a pure and unabashed truth about reality) and a piece of media (ultimately uplifting the player and making them feel happy) are in conflict.

In the writers defense, this idea can hardly be applied universally in real life, either. How do you know the difference between a circumstance where when you're clinging fruitlessly to something lost, versus one where there's still hope that should be pursued to the bitter end? As much as a moral might try to boil this stuff down to an absolute, it's not always easy to tell. Determination and delusion are two sides of the same coin.

Moving forward doesn't mean not having fond memories of the past and deeming it unworthy of value and respect.

In this case, the dead races are moving forward from despair in a world that was once deemed devoid of hope, and of their recollections of their past worlds and lives through the consumption of food, dynamis is reacting to it by creating a familiar place from their world. And better yet, these simulacrum, simulations what have you, aren't trying to kill several civilizations of present people just to have a small corner in the world where they can have a short reprieve from despair that once consumed them, and perhaps learn to thrive in this new environment as they start feeling hopeful for the future once more.

I'd rather not make judgments of the story till the end of tribe quest line though...

Need to remember that post-6.0 is about new beginnings, not just moving forward. The Omicron quests are about new beginnings for races that had died out.

They're also moving forward as they aren't returning to the states they were in at the time of their civilizations' deaths. The Karellians have stopped warring and are slowly learning to work together. The Grebuloffs are learning to care for their ecology. The Ea are learning to appreciate corporeal life for the sake of living, not for dying. Presumably the Nibirun will likewise come around in one of the last two reputation chapters, plus this wouldn't be complete without a visit from the dragons (not that they have completely died out thanks to Midgardsormr).

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Need to remember that post-6.0 is about new beginnings, not just moving forward. The Omicron quests are about new beginnings for races that had died out.

They're also moving forward as they aren't returning to the states they were in at the time of their civilizations' deaths. The Karellians have stopped warring and are slowly learning to work together. The Grebuloffs are learning to care for their ecology. The Ea are learning to appreciate corporeal life for the sake of living, not for dying. Presumably the Nibirun will likewise come around in one of the last two reputation chapters, plus this wouldn't be complete without a visit from the dragons (not that they have completely died out thanks to Midgardsormr).

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Yeah, this is what's going on. The Omicron tribe quest is allowing people who never had the chance to move on and find new life and hope the ability to. They're specifically not trapped in the past. Well, the Nibirun might be, at least right now, but those guys are assholes, hopefully they learn to not be. In fact, it kinda carries for even the Nekropolis itself; the people who were there are gone, and we don't have enough info to either bring them back or even know for certain that they did have a bad ending, but still, the Nekropolis itself has a new life and the ability to move forward.

To be stuck in the past would be to return to things exactly as they were and to stay in some idyllic, possibly-fictional past. But we didn't bring back the Karellians as the allegedly-utopian one world government they were before the civil war broke out; we brought them back from their point of demise, and helped them find a new way forward.

I saw someone describe the Omicron questline as essentially creating a Purgatory for the races of Ultima Thule, and that's actually about right, in the kindest way possible: we've made a space where the departed can work through their sins and mistakes before moving on. How is that not moving forward and finding new beginnings?

You're going to tend to see your own views reflected in the story.

I think the latest tribal storyline exists to give the various peoples that we've encountered a bit of closure and to flesh out their stories. In developing a diverse community of different races who visit the Last Dregs, they can reflect together on things that did give their lives meaning and find a collective strength that they didn't have in isolation. As an example,

By using the Omicrons' technology, you're able to convey the sensory experience of various dishes to the Ea, which is something that they previously didn't realize that they had valued and lost. By collaborating, each civilization becomes stronger than it was previously and finds the means to overcome the individual hurdles that made their civilizations fall.

There's also a ton of lore that comes out of this, especially if you talk to the bartender as you progress through the story.

I would agree with you OP if the recreation of these races needed some sort of high price to pay. Or if the theme was that we allow these beings to be stuck in the past.
Instead we have a place and the omicrons that are able to recreate these races without a cost. And we try to make them move forward by accepting that their planets are gone but that they can still find hope and joy in this new place. And with their emotions they are bascially creating a new happier future for themselves.

If the theme was strictly "always forge ahead" than we should never have saved the first. We should have never tried to save anyone because we simply should just accept that people die and move on. But as the game also shows us, its fine to try to fight for a better solution, as long as you dont hurt yourself and especially others with it.

Or thats at least how I see it.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I would agree with you OP if the recreation of these races needed some sort of high price to pay. Or if the theme was that we allow these beings to be stuck in the past.
Instead we have a place and the omicrons that are able to recreate these races without a cost. And we try to make them move forward by accepting that their planets are gone but that they can still find hope and joy in this new place. And with their emotions they are bascially creating a new happier future for themselves.

If the theme was strictly "always forge ahead" than we should never have saved the first. We should have never tried to save anyone because we simply should just accept that people die and move on. But as the game also shows us, its fine to try to fight for a better solution, as long as you dont hurt yourself and especially others with it.

Or thats at least how I see it.

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I agree. I think "forge ahead and forget about everyone" has never been the theme, and reading it that way is an overgeneralization. The JRPG style forging ahead is always about using what you've learned on the long hero's journey, through the blood and the tears, to not give up and continue moving forward. And that process involves bringing the past with you. You can't just recreate the past and go back--that's not how time and experiences work, and you can see that through Emet's failed recreation of Amaurot, for example. But you also can't move forward while forgetting the past--to use the same example, we swore to Emet we'd remember him and the Ancients. I don't think the game has ever argued that knowing less about the past and fully denying it is the right path. Hell, Endwalker ends with you walking ("forging ahead") and literally hearing the voices of the people you've met in the past, some of whom you've lost, to push you forward. You can move forward and accept death and loss while still honoring the past and remembering it fondly--I think necromancy is just where XIV tends to draw the line at "how much of the past is it okay to keep with you."

Not to mention, the little slices of home on Elysium are hardly the major theme of the quests. If anything the theme seems to continue the trend with the sidequests in the region of refuting the nihilistic principles that led those societies to their doom. About finding joy in life and a reason to go on even if you are currently in the deepest pits of despair.

If anything, the slices of previous worlds make me think more of a memorial for the dead, or the effect the soup had on the Grebuloths.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

It would be one thing for the quests to be the Omicronians, Ea and the Dragons try to create something out of the new lease on life they've been given with Ultima Thule (and honestly, i think it would have been more compelling considering the history 2/3 of them have).

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I've only completed to the second race involved, but seeing as the dead ends only has one more and I have 4-5 more rep levels to go, I'm gonna guess those three are also going to be included, just later. There was already the quest in the first tier that has you go try to get a dragon and an ea to come to the cafe, after all.

I'm partcularly interested in the Ea and the Grebuloff(w/e the fish ppl are called) cus one says that an Ea structure was similar to something they found on their homeworld, but being near it caused illness. And they all ultimately died of a plague. I wonder if this means that the Ea had something to do with it, like being the origin for the plague that they were caught up in (not sure if it was actually used as a biowaeapon by the fish people or just happened via natural spread). Maybe the Ea visited or probed their planet during their days of discovery and left the tech the plague ultimately resulted from?

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

lI'm partcularly interested in the Ea and the Grebuloff(w/e the fish ppl are called) cus one says that an Ea structure was similar to something they found in their homeworld, but being near it caused illness.

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Where does it say that? I'm ahead of you on the storyline – I think I've done three progression quests now – and I don't recall them saying that.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Where does it say that? I'm ahead of you on the storyline – I think I've done three progression quests now – and I don't recall them saying that.

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Its from a quest where I had to go talk to them in Ea land. I want to say its actually a daily quest, not the rep level quest. There were two of them there. One was in the spot where the Ea wanted to "feed" us during the msq, where Y'shtola and Urianger sacrificed themselves. And one was on one of those sandcastle pillar structures that has a big glowing purple platform in it. SouthEast(-ish) section of the Ea continent. And he says that (paraphrasing) "We had structures similar to these in our oceans, but going near them made you ill."

It's from one of the dailies. It's the one where you have to go check to see if two Grebuloffs are OK as they haven't checked in. I think you can get various locations. The area that happens at is near the location named Hallow of the Flesh.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

It's from one of the dailies. It's the one where you have to go check to see if two Grebuloffs are OK as they haven't checked in. I think you can get various locations. The area that happens at is near the location named Hallow of the Flesh.

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Ah, i didn't know you could get different locales. Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Ah, i didn't know you could get different locales. Interesting.

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Yeah I've gotten it twice so far I know one of them is near the dragons. They tried to drink the water there but it wasn't a good idea. I don't remember where the other location that other time sent me. You get the stick em in a hydration body bag daily yet? I want to get that one again just so I can tell Stigma they're being bad after turning it in. Just like I do when I get the herbicide quest.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Yeah I've gotten it twice so far I know one of them is near the dragons. They tried to drink the water there but it wasn't a good idea. I don't remember where the other location that other time sent me. You get the stick em in a hydration body bag daily yet? I want to get that one again just so I can tell Stigma they're being bad after turning it in. Just like I do when I get the herbicide quest.

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We stuff em in bags, too? XD ...Are we certain the Namazu really are native to Etherys? I don't think we are. lol I mean, I know these guys' faces look more like cats than the Namazu, but still... lol

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

We stuff em in bags, too? XD ...Are we certain the Namazu really are native to Etherys? I don't think we are. lol I mean, I know these guys' faces look more like cats than the Namazu, but still... lol

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I think they're supposed to be sea otters. And yes cause they can get extremely dehydrated so Stigma sends us after one and I guess the bag can temporarily hydrate them enough so they don't die.

After the turn in Stigma says any non well hydrated Gerbuloffs found will be seen as hostile. N I'm all going Stigma no you bad robot.

Got the quest again today, tho with the dragon locales. It’s called “Working Up a Thirst”

The game loves to apply insane amount of "rule for thee but not for me", best to not overthink it.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Its from a quest where I had to go talk to them in Ea land. I want to say its actually a daily quest, not the rep level quest. There were two of them there. One was in the spot where the Ea wanted to "feed" us during the msq, where Y'shtola and Urianger sacrificed themselves. And one was on one of those sandcastle pillar structures that has a big glowing purple platform in it. SouthEast(-ish) section of the Ea continent. And he says that (paraphrasing) "We had structures similar to these in our oceans, but going near them made you ill."

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More specifically, it's stated that the crystals "carried a terrible illness".

It's a rather curious detail given that their race was laid low by an epidemic that from all appearances was not some run of the mill plague, given it seemed to be corrupting and infecting everything, even the environment around it.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

The game loves to apply insane amount of "rule for thee but not for me", best to not overthink it.

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More like the rule of '' yes, you may indulge on the memories of the past as much as you like, those memories are precious and wonderful, but no, you cannot genocide countless of civilizations just so you can have the past you deem superior back '' but okay.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

More specifically, it's stated that the crystals "carried a terrible illness".

It's a rather curious detail given that their race was laid low by an epidemic that from all appearances was not some run of the mill plague, given it seemed to be corrupting and infecting everything, even the environment around it.

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Sounds like a corruption of aether. Either it was caused by negativity via the meteia, or perhaps there was something else there that caused the issue.

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

More like the rule of '' yes, you may indulge on the memories of the past as much as you like, those memories are precious and wonderful, but no, you cannot genocide countless of civilizations just so you can have the past you deem superior back '' but okay.

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I think he meant the Scions with that. Since we did not just let them die at the end but summoned them back. But imo the game was never about that we dont try to save people but that we should accept it when its not possible to do so. Also the scions were not death at that time, they just lost their bodies. And we brought them back without sacrificing someone else for that.

But if we had not been able to do that, the WoL would have been stricken with grief, yet would have also moved on with their memories of them in their heart. Just like they did with every single person they have lost along the way. So yes we uphold the rule because the rule was never to just give up trying but that we should know when to let go.

Just like it was never the problem that a part of the Ancient sacrificed themselves to save the rest and their planet. No it was when they tried to use other unwilling participants that it got wrong.