What was they thinking when they did variant dungeons and criterion

first of all the dungeons in them self are WELL MADE, close as we ever got to what i want from dungeons in this game. but there one problem. why will any one run them after a weak or to not to talk about in 6.3 .
if the dungeon are got what can be the problem you may ask. it the rewords. variant the easy one get the best rework in a form of a ONE glam. if you wan tit you "grind" for it . a thing you can do in a dat or 2. then why will you ever go there. its not faster that a normal dungeon. the tomes are not even that good.
then criterion , nothing good to get from it. like WTF. you can get a mount but when was the list time open world was a relevant thing? where will you even use this mount?
as well made the dungeon so bad are the rewords.
yoshi totally wasted development time here on content that wont be relent after a weak or 2. now add RELEVENT crafting mats as drops you can get in the dungeons or buy from its currency and update it each patch. now there a reason to go there past the glam and mount.
what you think of thins?:confused:

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

first of all the dungeons in them self are WELL MADE, close as we ever got to what i want from dungeons in this game. but there one problem. why will any one run them after a weak or to not to talk about in 6.3 .
if the dungeon are got what can be the problem you may ask. it the rewords. variant the easy one get the best rework in a form of a ONE glam. if you wan tit you "grind" for it . a thing you can do in a dat or 2. then why will you ever go there. its not faster that a normal dungeon. the tomes are not even that good.
then criterion , nothing good to get from it. like WTF. you can get a mount but when was the list time open world was a relevant thing? where will you even use this mount?
as well made the dungeon so bad are the rewords.
yoshi totally wasted development time here on content that wont be relent after a weak or 2. now add RELEVENT crafting mats as drops you can get in the dungeons or buy from its currency and update it each patch. now there a reason to go there past the glam and mount.
what you think of thins?:confused:

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I was both stunned and underwhelmed when I saw the state of the rewards for Variant/Criterion dungeons. I was even more shocked that there were some who defended this "because its something new they're trying" as if that was any sort of acceptable excuse.

This must be corrected with all haste, even adding crafting mats to the rewards in a hotfix or 6.28 would be preferable to leaving this content to rot until 6.45.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

first of all the dungeons in them self are WELL MADE, close as we ever got to what i want from dungeons in this game. but there one problem. why will any one run them after a weak or to not to talk about in 6.3 .
if the dungeon are got what can be the problem you may ask. it the rewords. variant the easy one get the best rework in a form of a ONE glam. if you wan tit you "grind" for it . a thing you can do in a dat or 2. then why will you ever go there. its not faster that a normal dungeon. the tomes are not even that good.
then criterion , nothing good to get from it. like WTF. you can get a mount but when was the list time open world was a relevant thing? where will you even use this mount?
as well made the dungeon so bad are the rewords.
yoshi totally wasted development time here on content that wont be relent after a weak or 2. now add RELEVENT crafting mats as drops you can get in the dungeons or buy from its currency and update it each patch. now there a reason to go there past the glam and mount.
what you think of thins?:confused:

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we already have multiple threads regarding this discussion.

Anyways I agree, while there's still a "completion" aspect to it regarding the 12 paths, we do need some form of relevant rewards.

I'm going to cackle if they tie the relic to running this repeatedly. There's your longevity.

In all seriousness, they added a completely new tier of content with this. It's going to take some time to figure out the reward structure, and it may be necessary to question the ironclad system they've used for the last decade to truly fix it. As things stand the game's rewards are as binary as its content: Standard or Savage.

It's not an easy problem to fix, and it may take several things to fix for the long term -- something like a static level cap, an absolute ilvl cap, horizontal progression via content-specific power enhancement, and god knows what else. The 75 era of FFXI (where you do x expansion for a good ring, y expansion for a good earring) or the current expansion structure of GW2 (nothing goes out of date, but you get new features for clearing content) might hint in the direction that might fix the binary gear we have now, but I'm sure Square can come up with their own take on things-- like they always have.

I mean sure, they could add more rewards, why not. Crafting material, aetheryte tickets, maybe tomestone gear upgrades in 6.3?

But it's very normal for them to add a mount reward to everything to motivate people to do it. They do it for extreme, savage, blue mage raiding, hunting, fate grinding, leveling all jobs, doing pvp, collecting triple triad cards, doing lots of crafting in the firmament, island sanctuary and I could go on but every major content they add they usually put a mount there to make sure people who would otherwise ignore it try it out.

Also I do feel like they're testing the waters out first with this content in its base release. I'm pretty sure they'll give us an update come next LL regarding the rewards system based on feedback and they do probably have ideas to tie relics or add in some form of gear progression.

considering they added a whole new menu for it I doubt Variants and Criterions are gonna stop with this one, and they'll likely add more rewards with each one

it is kinda lame that you can't get much from it currently but that's honestly fine with me, the experience of figuring out the puzzles for some of the records (especially 12) was absolutely worth it even if all I got was the rat mount

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Originally Posted by vanaii

I'm going to cackle if they tie the relic to running this repeatedly. There's your longevity.

In all seriousness, they added a completely new tier of content with this. It's going to take some time to figure out the reward structure, and it may be necessary to question the ironclad system they've used for the last decade to truly fix it. As things stand the game's rewards are as binary as its content: Standard or Savage.

It's not an easy problem to fix, and it may take several things to fix for the long term -- something like a static level cap, an absolute ilvl cap, horizontal progression via content-specific power enhancement, and god knows what else. The 75 era of FFXI (where you do x expansion for a good ring, y expansion for a good earring) or the current expansion structure of GW2 (nothing goes out of date, but you get new features for clearing content) might hint in the direction that might fix the binary gear we have now, but I'm sure Square can come up with their own take on things-- like they always have.

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here we go on the defending of yoshi. new content? this game after how 10 or so years 9 years or run cant figure out what rewards to give? they don't know hat people care for and hat not? take first deep dungeon vs the second. first give WAY more glams and people cared more to run it.It's not an easy problem to fix? yes it is, add crafting mats that are relevant to the best craft you can make now.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I mean sure, they could add more rewards, why not. Crafting material, aetheryte tickets, maybe tomestone gear upgrades in 6.3?

But it's very normal for them to add a mount reward to everything to motivate people to do it. They do it for extreme, savage, blue mage raiding, hunting, fate grinding, leveling all jobs, doing pvp, collecting triple triad cards, doing lots of crafting in the firmament, island sanctuary and I could go on but every major content they add they usually put a mount there to make sure people who would otherwise ignore it try it out.

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and so far it FAILED hard core. what % even care to run harder content in this game when all you get is a mount.

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Originally Posted by SylvAlternate

considering they added a whole new menu for it I doubt Variants and Criterions are gonna stop with this one, and they'll likely add more rewards with each one

it is kinda lame that you can't get much from it currently but that's honestly fine with me, the experience of figuring out the puzzles for some of the records (especially 12) was absolutely worth it even if all I got was the rat mount

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point me to the ONE content they did add more reword to over time. i hope they will but its SE. look at the first and second deep dungeon. the second got way less things you can get from it.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

here we go on the defending of yoshi. new content? this game after how 10 or so years 9 years or run cant figure out what rewards to give? they don't know hat people care for and hat not? take first deep dungeon vs the second. first give WAY more glams and people cared more to run it.It's not an easy problem to fix? yes it is, add crafting mats that are relevant to the best craft you can make now.

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maybe you should apply for a job there.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

and so far it FAILED hard core. what % even care to run harder content in this game when all you get is a mount.

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I mean, I would be much more interested in trying out ultimates if I got a cool mount from it rather than a weapon which doesn't work with any glam whatsoever

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

maybe you should apply for a job there.

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Many did. They thought their unique suggestions and opinions could fix the game. They implemented them and players still complain.

Then they found out they had become one of those develpers players feel disconnected to.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

here we go on the defending of yoshi. new content? this game after how 10 or so years 9 years or run cant figure out what rewards to give? they don't know hat people care for and hat not? take first deep dungeon vs the second. first give WAY more glams and people cared more to run it.It's not an easy problem to fix? yes it is, add crafting mats that are relevant to the best craft you can make now.

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Yeah, I'll keep defending Yoshi. The man's run a solid ship for a decade, done the impossible, and stands a good chance of doing the impossible again. Even if he's made a misstep here and there, that doesn't negate what he's done right.

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Originally Posted by vanaii

Yeah, I'll keep defending Yoshi. The man's run a solid ship for a decade, done the impossible, and stands a good chance of doing the impossible again. Even if he's made a misstep here and there, that doesn't negate what he's done right.

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Over the past 10 months he's destroyed a decade's worth of my goodwill. I was one of this game's biggest fans prior to Endwalker and now "missteps here and there" have become one after the other, combined with all the other baggage like limited jobs and the limited races that caused their own controversies. I'm through with defending or excusing his actions. He needs a reality check, which he would've gotten if any of the clear and direct feedback left on here by the groups of players he's upset with his decisions ever made it to the dev team.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Over the past 10 months he's destroyed a decade's worth of my goodwill. I was one of this game's biggest fans prior to Endwalker and now "missteps here and there" have become one after the other, combined with all the other baggage like limited jobs and the limited races that caused their own controversies. I'm through with defending or excusing his actions. He needs a reality check, which he would've gotten if any of the clear and direct feedback left on here by the groups of players he's upset with his decisions ever made it to the dev team.

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Players are going to be upset no matter what he does, and the worst thing he can possibly do is allow forum riots to dictate changes -- especially when the content you've listed as "missteps" are not missteps. Allowing the riot to dictate design is exactly how you end up with a fear-adverse design by committee.

I don't particularly care if you like or don't like anything he's tried; I'm just thrilled he's willing to try new things rather than stick with the same predictable stuff everyone eise is doing. Maybe that doesn't work for you -- and it really doesn't matter if it does -- but I'm not going to ignore what the man did because it's suddenly cool to smear him.

I'm looking forward to what comes next, even though circumstances around Endwalker made me sick. I don't know what else to say.

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Originally Posted by vanaii

Yeah, I'll keep defending Yoshi. The man's run a solid ship for a decade, done the impossible, and stands a good chance of doing the impossible again. Even if he's made a misstep here and there, that doesn't negate what he's done right.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Over the past 10 months he's destroyed a decade's worth of my goodwill. I was one of this game's biggest fans prior to Endwalker and now "missteps here and there" have become one after the other, combined with all the other baggage like limited jobs and the limited races that caused their own controversies. I'm through with defending or excusing his actions. He needs a reality check, which he would've gotten if any of the clear and direct feedback left on here by the groups of players he's upset with his decisions ever made it to the dev team.

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People really need to get over the ARR saviour complex they have going for him. Yoshida didn't ask for it, and he rejected the image and expectations it brought upon him. Those years are gone. If people are going to tell others that they cannot use what Yoshida said years ago in LLs and interviews versus what he ended up doing because "oh, the circumstances and mindset's changed", then they need to stop recycling the ARR Saviour excuse.

Endwalker single-handedly spent the good faith they've established since. Yes, they're human and that means they can make mistakes; every expansion they've made mistakes, but they weren't anything major. And yes, what goes on with the game doesn't only rely on them. But unlike awkward decisions and designs, Endwalker has been consistently divisive. Consistently.
- The release of 6.0 was delayed on such a short notice
- The connectivity issues both in and past Early Access, especially with them blaming it on us rather than admitting they're the ones ill-prepared for the surge of players they got in late SHB
- A plot that satisfied half the fanbase and confounded the other half
- Underwhelming and exploitative PvP
- Hrothgar hairstyles and ears
- Housing being released in the most spectacular failure possible
- Black Mage being buffed in PvP and requiring a dev post just to excuse it, when there's other stuff in the game at the time that garnered their attention and explanation
- New Fat Cat onesie glitched for the race the producer himself plays the most
- Barebones and underwhelming content, from Island Sanctuary to the new Variant and Criterion dungeons
- Growing disconnect between devs and playerbase (from "It's too hard" to do things when it really wasn't to "if you want to heal, play Ultimate")
And many other more minor complaints, especially with the amount of notable glitches that other patches didn't have.

Whether you agree with the intensity of these or not, whether you feel their goodfaith has been lost to you over them or not, that's up to you. But to many people, yes, their goodwill was shot in the knees. And now fans are demanding a bit of effort and responsability from their dev team, and not allow them to be so laissez-faire about a decade-old game that doesn't seek to innovate where it matters.

Just because they did amazing things in the past, it doesn't mean that they're still doing amazing things in the present. Credit where credit is due, but credit doesn't and shouldn't render you blind. He's not a fairy tale hero, nor does he want to be seen as one for any other purpose than marketing. He's a person who did good things but is now slipping up and letting others' slip ups get past. And that needs to be brought to their attention.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

snip

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EW knocked it out of the park for the large majority of the playerbase. What's represented here on the forums is the most minuscule minority of the community, and one always prone to complaining about anything. Take a trip around YouTube, or even Reddit (of all places), and for every one person you find here, you'll find dozens of unique people (not the same few posting over and over again) praising EW and celebrating the current state of FFXIV.

Again, EW may have somehow "spent" whatever faith you have for whatever reason, but far and away the general reaction is the complete opposite. The only thing EW has been consistently is praised by most people. Seriously, get out of the pathetic echo chamber of negativity that is this forum and poke around practically any other place on the internet related to FFXIV, and you'll see how overwhelmingly this place does not reflect the general reality.

We should get another deep dungeon in this expansion so there would be another content which can be run for a long time depending on what you want from it.
The question is though: Why does every single piece of content have to be long lived? Wouldnt that just mean that you bascially have to live in this game to even get near the finishing line for one?

I am nearly done with the variant. I may run it once or twice again because I still dont have enough for the glam reward but other than that I probably wont get there again. And thats fine. I had much more fun in this than a lot of other content they produced in the last expansions. The feeling of happiness when I was able to solve a puzzle on my own (only looked up the notes 4 and 5), the lore we got there, the cute interaction with Nanamo. All that was worth more for me than another endless grind like Bozja. I hated it there in the end because the notes for the mount were purely RNG. In Variant you can them 100% if you do the thing right.

Would you really have fun with this content if you run the exact same paths again and again and again just to grind some rewards that will bascially be ignored a few weeks after obtaining them? I would not. I liked this one because it was something new, something interesting with only a minor grind. And if I want to do it again, maybe help out a friend, I can do it without the feeling of being annoyed by it.

Also interesting how you want more rewards but you bascially dont like those that are in it right now. For you mounts are not cool, for others they might be the sole reason to run it. (Also you can sell the mount which means that grinding for more than one can give you a nice sum of gil) What if they introduce more rewards but none of those matter to you?

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

- A plot that satisfied half the fanbase and confounded the other half
- Underwhelming and exploitative PvP
- Barebones and underwhelming content, from Island Sanctuary to the new Variant and Criterion dungeons

Whether you agree with the intensity of these or not, whether you feel their goodfaith has been lost to you over them or not, that's up to you. But to many people, yes, their goodwill was shot in the knees. And now fans are demanding a bit of effort and responsability from their dev team, and not allow them to be so laissez-faire about a decade-old game that doesn't seek to innovate where it matters.

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And its fine to feel unhappy about the game. I was in that state in Stormblood and even more in Shadowbringers. Endwalker was the point where I knew that if I dont like it, it will be the last expansion that I would play. (And it would fit perfectly with them ending that huge big story line so I would at least get a ending) Before that though I took some consequences. I stopped buying anything from the cash shop or their merch store (and I asked friends to stop gifting me stuff there too) and I took month long breaks between each playtime. (Would have been longer without the house timer)

I understood that giving feedback (and I gave harsh feedback here over the years) was not enough and that I needed to do something too. So I bascially gave them less money. Of course one person is not enough to make a change but what would it really mean to them if I constantly complained on this forum but still gave them all the sub money regardless? Nothing really.

This is why I find it a bit I guess funny to see certain people still posting here all the time even though the game is seemingly dieing and horrible and childish and so much more. Some even have the newest cash shop items too. I guess thats showing SE how bad it truly is.

In the end though Endwalker was really enjoyable for me thus I constantly stay subbed, have bought something from the cash shop again (doggo love) and post a lot of more positive stuff. Its not because I think that Yoshida can do no wrong, its just that I have started to really like the game again.

I enjoyed the story, I love island sancturary, I liked running variant dungeons and doing the beast tribes dailies. I look forward to the new deep dungeon and I do hope that the relic, without a new zone behind it, will be enjoyable for me again. I also liked the new pvp mode. I have done more pvp since its release than I ever did before and I know that with each new malmstone release I will be there grinding for the rewards again, because the content behind it is fun.

So yeah there are people that will agree with your points but there are also a great deal of people that see it different. That liked Variant or the island. That did not feel disappointed by the story.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

People really need to get over the ARR saviour complex they have going for him. Yoshida didn't ask for it, and he rejected the image and expectations it brought upon him. Those years are gone. If people are going to tell others that they cannot use what Yoshida said years ago in LLs and interviews versus what he ended up doing because "oh, the circumstances and mindset's changed", then they need to stop recycling the ARR Saviour excuse.

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I'm sorry it's inconvenient to remember the man didn't single-handedly save the game (and likely Square) but them's the ropes. That doesn't get forgotten because you want it to be forgotten. It doesn't get forgotten even if he says he wants it to be forgotten. I have faith he can do it again if it becomes necessary.

I've seen just about every review and reaction available for Endwalker, and they do not share the reactions of the troglodytes on the forums. Even the people that profess hatred of the last boss have the -tiniest- smile when they see the fistfight.

As for PVP, that's never been this game's strength. I'd love to see them turn that around, but it's going to be a herculean task to convince a community of 10 years PVP is suddenly worth doing.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

EW knocked it out of the park for the large majority of the playerbase. What's represented here on the forums is the most minuscule minority of the community, and one always prone to complaining about anything. Take a trip around YouTube, or even Reddit (of all places), and for every one person you find here, you'll find dozens of unique people (not the same few posting over and over again) praising EW and celebrating the current state of FFXIV.

Again, EW may have somehow "spent" whatever faith you have for whatever reason, but far and away the general reaction is the complete opposite. The only thing EW has been consistently is praised by most people. Seriously, get out of the pathetic echo chamber of negativity that is this forum and poke around practically any other place on the internet related to FFXIV, and you'll see how overwhelmingly this place does not reflect the general reality.

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Has it? As far as I can remember, people weren't this critical about Shadowbringers when it came out.

And as I keep telling you and everyone else, the forums are the only place that technically matters. Twitter? The devs aren't gonna look into that. Reddit? The devs already said they won't look in there, and there are actions against people who criticise the game there. Not to mention how rabid people are the moment you post ANY criticism, even if you do love the game to bits. And given that the devs have said that the forums are the only place they'd sift through for feedback, yes: you'll find more criticisms here than anywhere else.

I'm not under any delusion that we're a majority, but here is where opinions like those will be expressed the most. Not other platforms.

It HASN'T been consistently praised by most people. Define "most people" in terms of those that actually matter. Streamers? People who comment on the game? Where do they comment, in places that matter?

And call me pathetic for pointing out the flaws, I dare you. I at least am not the one ignoring the constant mistakes that they've put out. Mistakes that people, even those outside of these forums, HAVE criticised. Stop being so blind in your daft faith to defend the devs for once and understand what it is you're saying.

Endwalker was praised because there are stuff there TO praise, that's never been put into question. But this expansion, more than any other, has also provided really glaring flaws that HAVE been called out, even outside this "echo chamber", dude!

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Originally Posted by vanaii

I'm sorry it's inconvenient to remember the man didn't single-handedly save the game (and likely Square) but them's the ropes. That doesn't get forgotten because you want it to be forgotten. It doesn't get forgotten even if he says he wants it to be forgotten. I have faith he can do it again if it becomes necessary.

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??

Where on earth have I said this?

I never said "lol forget", I said "don't ignore what's happening right now just because he did something right in the past".

What, just because I saved someone in the past, that gives me a pass to kill someone now? That's such a freaking joke, I can still point and say "hey, you're not doing things well anymore". And when it happens again and again, and people yell over us that we can't tell him that bc he's our lord and saviour, what do you think is going to happen?

I'm only pointing out the issues that YOU TWO are ignoring.

Otherwise I wouldn't be playing this game. I wouldn't be here if I didn't care for it.

So will you two get off your high horse and read?

Here.

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...10e1.png?n6.25

You two forgot this.

Because at no point did I say "the devs are idiots, all they do is trash now". I'm saying that Endwalker has been having a lot of glaring issues in its content, far more than any other expansion. It doesn't mean the content itself sucks (some might, not all of it), and what I said was that some of it was polarizing. Meaning I don't have to agree with the dissenters to know that there are people that actually hated stuff like, for example, Endwalker's plot.

Yet you two are clearly unable to read.

You two are saying crap like how I'm disgregarding all the good stuff he's done. When in reality you two just haven't realized that all I did was put up a list of stuff that's been piling up in the past few months that have led to consistent complaining. Stuff that you guys clearly choose to ignore and dismiss.

You want to white knight? Go ahead. I'm out of this conversation, there's zero point in talking to you if that's the avenue you choose to pursue.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

And as I keep telling you and everyone else, the forums are the only place that technically matters.

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When I'm convinced the forums couldn't possibly be more myopic

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

And as I keep telling you and everyone else, the forums are the only place that technically matters. Twitter? The devs aren't gonna look into that. Reddit? The devs already said they won't look in there, and there are actions against people who criticise the game there. Not to mention how rabid people are the moment you post ANY criticism, even if you do love the game to bits. And given that the devs have said that the forums are the only place they'd sift through for feedback, yes: you'll find more criticisms here than anywhere else.

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^ This. People keep acting like this is a social media website like Twitter or Reddit where we need to be ultra positive all of the time. The purpose of the forums is not the same as the purpose of Reddit or Twitter.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

I'm not under any delusion that we're a majority, but here is where opinions like those will be expressed the most. Not other platforms.

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You're not the majoritah, that's Striker. :p

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

It HASN'T been consistently praised by most people. Define "most people" in terms of those that actually matter.

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It's been praised by Striker, and he is the majoritah, thus he is 'most people'.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

nd call me pathetic for pointing out the flaws, I dare you. I at least am not the one ignoring the constant mistakes that they've put out. Mistakes that people, even those outside of these forums, HAVE criticised. Stop being so blind in your daft faith to defend the devs for once and understand what it is you're saying.

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The most powerful asset of the developers is the fanbase. This fanbase is so fanatical that they worship the developers like gods who can do no wrong. The devs never have to worry about making a mistake as they know that if they do, any criticism will be drowned out by their white knight zealots screaming thanks even when they're fed literal crap.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

So will you two get off your high horse and read?

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These sorts of people never bother actually reading what you type, asking them to isn't going to get them too.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Because at no point did I say "the devs are idiots, all they do is trash now". I'm saying that Endwalker has been having a lot of glaring issues in its content, far more than any other expansion. It doesn't mean the content itself sucks (some might, not all of it), and what I said was that some of it was polarizing. Meaning I don't have to agree with the dissenters to know that there are people that actually hated stuff like, for example, Endwalker's plot.

Yet you two are clearly unable to read.

You two are saying crap like how I'm disgregarding all the good stuff he's done. When in reality you two just haven't realized that all I did was put up a list of stuff that's been piling up in the past few months that have led to consistent complaining. Stuff that you guys clearly choose to ignore and dismiss.

You want to white knight? Go ahead. I'm out of this conversation, there's zero point in talking to you if that's the avenue you choose to pursue.

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I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if some of the forum's white knights were paid by Square Enix to do what they do. Sometimes what they say/do is just beyond logic and understanding. Just don't bother with them.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Has it? As far as I can remember, people weren't this critical about Shadowbringers when it came out.

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The forums were. Just like we had a lot of topics when Eureka came out in Stormblood, there were lots of topics in Shadowbringers too. (And we even had the Raubahn savage problem in Stormblood) A huge storm about the gender restricted races (and rightfully so imo), quite a few threads about how we barely get content anymore. Disappointment (but not as much as Eureka) with Bozja. Housing was also always something brought up.

There are many minor things that have been discussed in many expansions. And there are quite a few regular posters here that have bascially declared every recent expansion as their breaking point. They are still here. So yeah I dont think Endwalker is much more controvers than any other expansion. At least on this forum.

Outside of it, it got the praise it always gets. High raitings, awards, favorable articles and a huge amount of positive comments under FF14 videos. I dont remember any huge negative comments under any of the content creators I watched. No, many where emotional about the story, loving certain characters that are hated deeply by some here and more.

The forum can be a indicator. Some of the storms here did represent the situation ingame. People hated the two old Diadems and the content died inside so fast...people really disliked Eureka and the Lucky Bancho showed that only a quite low amount did it at the time it was relevant. And that was with the relic behind it. But that does not mean that everything is that way. Sometimes there are huge threads here that are bascially the same few people talking for hundreds of pages with sometimes new people coming in. That does not indicate the state of the game or the opinion of many players.

Edit: And if we just look at this forum.
The thread about bunny boys as a race had (if I remember it correctly) over 1.000 likes on the OP post. Which means that over a thousand people at least used the forum once to vote for it. The biggest endwalker thread which would be the one with over 700 pages about the bad story had 180 likes in the OP. That is a bit more than 10% of the people voting for bunny boys. In the very same thread just a few posts under the OP we have the one that says that they like the story. This post has nearly double the amount of likes than the OP.

Take from that what you want, just wanted to point that out.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

People really need to get over the ARR saviour complex they have going for him. Yoshida didn't ask for it, and he rejected the image and expectations it brought upon him. Those years are gone. If people are going to tell others that they cannot use what Yoshida said years ago in LLs and interviews versus what he ended up doing because "oh, the circumstances and mindset's changed", then they need to stop recycling the ARR Saviour excuse.

Endwalker single-handedly spent the good faith they've established since. Yes, they're human and that means they can make mistakes; every expansion they've made mistakes, but they weren't anything major. And yes, what goes on with the game doesn't only rely on them. But unlike awkward decisions and designs, Endwalker has been consistently divisive. Consistently.
- The release of 6.0 was delayed on such a short notice
- The connectivity issues both in and past Early Access, especially with them blaming it on us rather than admitting they're the ones ill-prepared for the surge of players they got in late SHB
- A plot that satisfied half the fanbase and confounded the other half
- Underwhelming and exploitative PvP
- Hrothgar hairstyles and ears
- Housing being released in the most spectacular failure possible
- Black Mage being buffed in PvP and requiring a dev post just to excuse it, when there's other stuff in the game at the time that garnered their attention and explanation
- New Fat Cat onesie glitched for the race the producer himself plays the most
- Barebones and underwhelming content, from Island Sanctuary to the new Variant and Criterion dungeons
- Growing disconnect between devs and playerbase (from "It's too hard" to do things when it really wasn't to "if you want to heal, play Ultimate")
And many other more minor complaints, especially with the amount of notable glitches that other patches didn't have.

Whether you agree with the intensity of these or not, whether you feel their goodfaith has been lost to you over them or not, that's up to you. But to many people, yes, their goodwill was shot in the knees. And now fans are demanding a bit of effort and responsability from their dev team, and not allow them to be so laissez-faire about a decade-old game that doesn't seek to innovate where it matters.

Just because they did amazing things in the past, it doesn't mean that they're still doing amazing things in the present. Credit where credit is due, but credit doesn't and shouldn't render you blind. He's not a fairy tale hero, nor does he want to be seen as one for any other purpose than marketing. He's a person who did good things but is now slipping up and letting others' slip ups get past. And that needs to be brought to their attention.

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Nobody is sitting in their laurels.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

...For example, Endwalker's plot.

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Endwalker's plot was pretty sus, but it's just competent and hit enough emotional highs for most people to accept that it was a good story and leave it at that. They're not really going to be thinking about every detail of it, just the highlights, not whether or not it made sense in the long run or was narratively earned. I'm pretty sure if you asked someone like Mauler to break down everything wrong with where the plot went for Endwalker, we'd have a several hour video on our hands. Despite the fact the more I think about it, the more dissatisfied I am, I must concede it did its job and there's not much point in wishing it had been something different, maybe you can hope the writers pick up on some of the feedback and touch up their writing, but after the Lore QnAs and such, I'm just hoping the quality doesn't drop further.


I disagree with the sycophantic defending of the devs and the game itself, but I also disagree with the angry mob energy from the posts criticizing things like the EW server issues which were due to a lack of semiconductors which is an acceptable reason for this sort of issue, and it wasn't even that bad at launch. Most people who are used to launch dates are used to that sort of thing.

I also find it funny people talk about Yoshi P like he's sitting in the office late at night programming Viera hats on his computer. He's the producer, has people working under him, and he's working on other projects and responsibilities. He's not reading every single line of code that's going into the game. The people working on the game are people and while they might find something wrong and find a solution to the issue (which is a laborious task itself), sometimes they might not know what's wrong with something until it's out there and the players see it. They're most likely trying their best but sometimes coming short of expectations, and I mean, who here doesn't empathize with that? Overall we have many things to be thankful for, and this isn't me white knighting the game or the devs, I'm just saying "Shit happens" and the team is treating us very graciously despite not hitting every mark. We shouldn't be posting criticism in a pitchfork and torches tone because that just sets up the other demographic of players to go to war instead of having a discussion. I think we all have a responsibility to approach things in good faith. If you have criticism, state the criticism, but don't slather it in a coat of "You're an incompetent dev team" because that's toxic af. I'm very sure the validation of fans is something the devs desire the most, but if people start tacking on "You're hurting your own game" and "You're disrespecting the fans by not being perfect" to the criticism, be it true or not (and it's not), they're being extremely counterproductive and abrasive. It's not necessary at all.

Like it or not, it's a constant dance of things going wrong or being unsatisfying for the players and the dev team finding the best ways to implement things while juggling everything else they need to do going forward.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if some of the forum's white knights were paid by Square Enix to do what they do. Sometimes what they say/do is just beyond logic and understanding. Just don't bother with them.

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here we go, how about this then..

I wouldnt be surprised if the people "hating" on everything because "they care more than anyone else" are paid by Blizzard to try and submarine their competition. Sometimes what they say makes me wonder if they play the same game.

I figure that statement is about as true as yours. if you complain because "you care" they defend because "they care"

I doubt ANY of this is a competition to figure out who cares more. no matter what side of the coin you are looking at, if you are still subscribing to the game... you are endorsing the product. period. if the game isnt ringing your bell, if it is going in the wrong direction, whatever is making you upset, if you are paying... they...wont.. stop. no, I am not telling you to leave, what I am saying is if you dont like something, stop paying for it. I stopped liking Wow's direction and finally watched someone that made perfect sense "they stopped earning my money". I realized that was very true and unsubbed. so, if FFxiv has stopped earning YOUR money, the best thing you can do for YOURSELF.. is stop giving it to them. you will feel much better than your constant anger about something you cannot change.

Don't you people get tired of doing this shit every time?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I was both stunned and underwhelmed when I saw the state of the rewards for Variant/Criterion dungeons. I was even more shocked that there were some who defended this "because its something new they're trying" as if that was any sort of acceptable excuse.

This must be corrected with all haste, even adding crafting mats to the rewards in a hotfix or 6.28 would be preferable to leaving this content to rot until 6.45.

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The reason: Diadem 1.0

That's all you need to know.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Don't you people get tired of doing this shit every time?

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its part of the forum culture.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Over the past 10 months he's destroyed a decade's worth of my goodwill. I was one of this game's biggest fans prior to Endwalker and now "missteps here and there" have become one after the other, combined with all the other baggage like limited jobs and the limited races that caused their own controversies. I'm through with defending or excusing his actions. He needs a reality check, which he would've gotten if any of the clear and direct feedback left on here by the groups of players he's upset with his decisions ever made it to the dev team.

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There is exactly one thing to do when your decade's worth of goodwill has been destroyed: Burn it all down to the ground. Salt the earth. Leave no prisoners.

You're doing a great job there.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

its part of the forum culture.

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You are missing the world's largest air quotes. Tourists will travel from hemispheres away to see the world-famous air quotes.

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Originally Posted by vanaii

I'm going to cackle if they tie the relic to running this repeatedly. There's your longevity.

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They said relic grind would be similar to ARR/HW, but ya I wouldn't be surprised if the new dungeons played heavily into the relic grind and honestly I'd be ok with that.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Over the past 10 months he's destroyed a decade's worth of my goodwill. I was one of this game's biggest fans prior to Endwalker and now "missteps here and there" have become one after the other, combined with all the other baggage like limited jobs and the limited races that caused their own controversies. I'm through with defending or excusing his actions. He needs a reality check, which he would've gotten if any of the clear and direct feedback left on here by the groups of players he's upset with his decisions ever made it to the dev team.

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You don't even have a level 90. The door is over there, help yourself out of it.

Over the past 10 months he's destroyed a decade's worth of my goodwill

Im sorry to hear that. Maybe take a break for a while?

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. I was one of this game's biggest fans prior to Endwalker and now "missteps here and there" have become one after the other, combined with all the other baggage like limited jobs and the limited races that caused their own controversies. I'm through with defending or excusing his actions. He needs a reality check, which he would've gotten if any of the clear and direct feedback left on here by the groups of players he's upset with his decisions ever made it to the dev team

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What "groups", aside from yourself, you dont speak for anyone else..and Im actually surprised you still cling to this odd notion

You dont speak for NA, OCE, EU, SG, SEA..so who are these "groups" you allude to? The less than 150 or so people who post here arent representative of anything or anyone either.

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I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if some of the forum's white knights were paid by Square Enix to do what they do.

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https://media.tenor.com/loIbg1WlZnoAAAAC/lolol.gif

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

https://media.tenor.com/loIbg1WlZnoAAAAC/lolol.gif

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we do it for free

In all seriousness though, I've dunked on Square for dozens of things in the past: housing placards and Eureka come to mind. I still hate venue ad spam, sorry not sorry.

Just because I don't think yoship is the devil because some people on the forums had a mad over Endwalker doesn't mean I'm going to defend Square for everything. I just happened to like Endwalker, and don't consider a release with a 92 metacritic rating an excuse to drag yoship through the mud even after he pulled off the impossible and three expansions before we got to the current day people are having a mad over.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Endwalker has been consistently divisive. Consistently.

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True. Criterion rewards, class balance every new raid tier (healing, phys ranged), gearing, housing, etc. They are at least acknowledged by the playerbase on several platforms. You wouldn't be wrong to call this expansion at least a bit "controversial".

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Why does every single piece of content have to be long lived?

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Wasn't the "no content left behind" philosophy one of the points of pride of this game? Specially standing up against wow?. Why wouldn't people want to have longer lived content?

I will keep saying this, but this game relies heavily on hooking people with the constant drip of perishable goods, and lately they have been more perishable than ever. You really feel that extra time added to the patch cycle.
Maybe you believe that the quick consoom model is your speed. That's fine. I happen to think that is, uh... unwise and it could be improved upon.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if some of the forum's white knights were paid by Square Enix to do what they do

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Naaah, most of the time it's just a messed up sense of loyalty, ready to turn on a dime at Yoshi's / SE word.

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we do it for free

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We do it because its true. I remember looking back when the Endwalker delay was announced, remembering Yoshi's face..I used to look like that after a 12 hr stint in the ER..he was exhausted. All I was thinking was "God man when did you sleep last?" If I had a team member who looked like that?

Id send him home in an instant.

No one says the game is perfect, I have never said that, but looking at all the work he and his team have put in, the quality of the game, I LOVED THE MSQ, I for one appreciate and thank him for all the work he has put in.

That sneer about connectivity? Did we forget the pandemic and the STILL ONGOING shortage of hardware, chips etc? You DO realise that as it stands, the backlog wont be cleared for more than a year? You cant make servers with no materials, and no materials are coming when the major companies that manufacture them have been shut down and their staff sent home.

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Naaah, most of the time it's just a messed up sense of loyalty, ready to turn on a dime at Yoshi's / SE word

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Word of advice if you ever go into business. The majority of your costs are in acquiring customers, if you have a successive and strong retention rate and strong customer loyalty, grats you did it right. The hard work is in KEEPING customers, churn and burn has a way of biting you in the rear after a while.

My loyalty aint misplaced or "messed up", I however am nowhere as jaded, as cynical or as prone to unnecessary criticism over small matters that are more a matter of opinion than they are objective fact.

So guess what, customer loyalty is something to be PROUD of, it means you have succeeded.

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Originally Posted by Cach

Naaah, most of the time it's just a messed up sense of loyalty, ready to turn on a dime at Yoshi's / SE word.

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Or, you know, mostly it's people whose opinion does not coincide with your own. That happens a lot in life.

I, personally, do not think of Naoki Yoshida at all when posting. Attempting to paint someone as "messed up" because their opinion differs from your own is, well, "messed up".

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Originally Posted by Cach

True. Criterion rewards, class balance every new raid tier (healing, phys ranged), gearing, housing, etc. They are at least acknowledged by the playerbase on several platforms. You wouldn't be wrong to call this expansion at least a bit "controversial".

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I feel like that's the word I should have used. But :| eh, it didn't come to mind, so sue me.

Endwalker's obviously praised. As is every expansion thus far. I'm even wrong, there was actually MORE hate toward Stormblood than there was toward Endwalker. Because if I remember right, the general mood even on Reddit was "SB was okay, but really bland and torn between two places, and Zenos isn't interesting". Endwalker is blessedly better received on that aspect, people just don't tend to like how rushed the plot was and how some elements were underplayed (Garlemald and the Final Days specifically). Some people don't like Venat and Zodiark, whereas on that front I'm just "eh" about it.

Otherwise I'm enjoying this expansion. I just am not blind to drops in quality and they are there. Nor do I excuse them with "Yeah but they saved ARR so it's fine". To me it's not, it was fine at first with them delaying the expansion and the yikes release. But after so long I drew the line, and that's when I started saying "Okay, what the hell". I didn't suddely develop acute selective amnesia and forget all the good stuff the devs have done like I keep being accused of. I HAVEN'T forgotten that according to Yoshida, some people in the team worked behind his back to get Viera and Hrothgar some headgear in SHB and I was and AM thankful to those people (assuming the story is true and not a PR stunt). But that doesn't stop me from saying "ok what the hell" when they take the decision to chop off ears. I'd have the same reaction if they decided to delete Lalafell hands just because some gear pieces were starting to get glitched on them.

Just because you criticise the devs in their flaws, it doesn't mean you hate them nor that you cannot recognize their virtues :) Okay? Okay.