Is Zero...special?

Zero had no idea what a friend was.

But we clearly see voidsent have relationships with each other. Friendships, families, etc.

Only Zero seems to lack the most basic of social skills and understanding of sentient being interactions.

Is Zero autistic? I do not mean this in an insulting way. I mean is it possible Zero is not able to process social interactions because of a medical condition?

I believe she is simply lying to herself. She claim that names don't matter to her, but she could can remember voidsents living in her domain by name.

Concepts like friendship seems strange to her because she must have forgotten things that aren't beneficial to her survival.

10 000 years in a dark world full of starving beasts, who's only relationship is using the others to survive.
Some ideas are just useless there. Friendship, hope or selflessness. All things that haven't existed in that world during these long years.

As someone with autism: No. Very no. I almost see where you're coming from, but it's actually borderline offensive to assume that autistic people don't know what friends are. That's clearly an extremely different situation.

Zero's lived in a literal hell for ten thousand years, willingly isolating herself from a lot of what the Thirteenth has ever since considered basically 'social norms'; voidsent aren't exactly friendly even towards their 'friends' either, and... well, I'm pretty sure we haven't yet seen anything resembling a healthy family there yet either. They probably don't use the word 'friend'. And then her only window into what we'd call a healthier world was Zenos, who is DEFINITELY not a bastion of mental health and neurotypicality himself.

Zero is poorly socialized through no fault of her own; that isn't autism, although it does occasionally have some similar traits.

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Originally Posted by RukoBoshi

I believe she is simply lying to herself. She claim that names don't matter to her, but she could can remember voidsents living in her domain by name.

Concepts like friendship seems strange to her because she must have forgotten things that aren't beneficial to her survival.

10 000 years in a dark world full of starving beasts, who's only relationship is using the others to survive.
Some ideas are just useless there. Friendship, hope or selflessness. All things that haven't existed in that world during these long years.

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What we are told the 13th is like and how we see voidsent act does not match up though. The Gruff family, the ability of Succubus to manipulate mortals, etc. All these things show a much more complex society than 'we all eat each other to survive'.

Ultros and Typhon show a great deal of loyalty to each other.

Now the argument could be made they work together for mutual benefit and survival, but that could apply to all beings that work together.

Just to add, the concept of being friends is (in part)to be around and enjoy each other’s company for no real tangible benefit, even to one’s own detriment at times.

Even the two voidsent we met in Zero’s domain that might be considered friends are really “friends” because they can snack on each other’s aether.

It’s probably not so much that being “friends” is foreign so much as the general feeling(s) of altruism in general…perhaps even a lack or dampening of emotions.

Granted Zero’s domain is a bit of a contradiction to this. Why would she be helping the ragtag mob unless they are her food source…

To;dr, most certainly not a disorder of Zero’s mental capacity and more a quirk of the overall “robotic/logical” nature of voidsent.

Well, shit. Quite the leap you made there, friend. Short answer: No.

Long answer: No, and please read up on autism and never make this insinuation ever again. Thanks so very much~ ;3

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Zero had no idea what a friend was.

But we clearly see voidsent have relationships with each other. Friendships, families, etc.

Only Zero seems to lack the most basic of social skills and understanding of sentient being interactions.

Is Zero autistic? I do not mean this in an insulting way. I mean is it possible Zero is not able to process social interactions because of a medical condition?

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If you wanted to ask if Zero was autistic, why not lead with that and not "special"? That's so outdated and generally a not very well-received way to refer to neurodivergent people.

I'm not even going to agree or disagree with your theory because your way of going about it is just so stupid and insensitive.

Something else to ponder, especially given the Gruff family, Ultros/Typhon and even the mysterious pumpkin-headed figure we meet every Saint’s Wake:

Typhon and Ultros are seen working with the Gold Saucer/Blue Mage circus-arena, doing shows…essentially.

The Gruffs are working together to feed, and the mysterious figure actually protects people, while allowing for a good scare before putting a stop to shenanigans.


This suggests Voidsent might be able to feed on emotion (fear/excitement, etc) itself (aka Dynamis). Importantly, positive emotions might just as easily feed them, meaning we might find a peaceful solution to exist with the 13th.

Essentially, Monsters Inc.

All that said, this is wild speculation.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

...and even the mysterious pumpkin-headed figure we meet every Saint’s Wake

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From talking to her in her garden, I get the impression that she's not a voidsent at all, but a descendant of the Mhachi.

Something bugs me about Zero if she can revert back to her normal self through Aether then why has this not happened with past voidsent? I don't think there was any lore eluding to that.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

From talking to her in her garden, I get the impression that she's not a voidsent at all, but a descendant of the Mhachi.

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Very possible as well- not sure as she refers to Gruff as a child and seems to exert a degree of power over them.
Powerful voidsent? Descendent/controller of voidsent contracts? Benevolent lich?

Shame it’s relegated to a minor seasonal event as it has lots of potential.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Something bugs me about Zero if she can revert back to her normal self through Aether then why has this not happened with past voidsent? I don't think there was any lore eluding to that.

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Zero is technically 1/2 voidsent and was essentially birthed human with void corruption. We aren’t sure if the other voidsent are entirely new entities, corrupted people or if they even have an uncorrupted form.

Scarmiglione and Barbariccia were once humans
Corrupted by the darkness like Sin Eaters were by light. Atleast that's what it seemed like in that one side quest with the multi eyes voidsent... the only difference it seems between them and Zero possible is she was born with the powers to turn them into crystals and have a sort of partial ward put on her due to her mother being one as well. Though that's just a guess.

Also, and I could have misinterpreted this, but didn't she say the form she had when we met her was due to Zenos?

An autistic person checking in, right here. No, Zero likely isn't autistic - she's just poorly socialized due to living in a Literal Hell for twelve thousand years. She's also a character who by design clearly cares a great deal, while trying to pretend they don't. I won't say flat out that she's neurotypical, but I sincerely doubt that her demeanor is due to her being on the spectrum in particular.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

From talking to her in her garden, I get the impression that she's not a voidsent at all, but a descendant of the Mhachi.

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If you talk to her as a reaper, she has an extra line about warning you about the danger of making a contract with voidsent.
So yeah, definitely sounds like a Mhachi descendant to me.

Lol at all these folks trying to push their ideological IdPol language, as someone with autism please dont refer to us as "neurodivergant". Its gross. I'm not neurodivergant I'm a dude with a minor disability and if a cure existed I'd take one in a heartbeat, because there is more to me than a vaguely defined illness.

That said I can see why youd think she was autistic, I certainly never met an insanely popular autistic person. That and the complete lack of social skills makes it so things check out. But I'd say being in the void for years and years probably has more to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Lol at all these folks trying to push their ideological IdPol language, as someone with autism please dont refer to us as "neurodivergant". Its gross. I'm not neurodivergant I'm a dude with a minor disability and if a cure existed I'd take one in a heartbeat, because there is more to me than a vaguely defined illness.

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And different people feel differently about that. I'm autistic/Aspergers and I wouldn't be me without it. Those traits are part of my personality and can't be sifted out without changing me at a fundamental level.

As for Zero, I see no need to leap to the conclusion that Zero is autistic because she is confused by a literal foreign concept (which we are doing a rubbish job of explaining to her). It's more that she's from a society where the concepts of social skills and small talk are nonexistent. The reason autistic people have trouble with social skills is that they're bad at picking up cues from others; Zero has never had the opportunity to pick those cues up. Different causes, similar result.

(I've said before and will say again, if you're looking for Aspies among the FFXIV cast, then Urianger seems the obvious one to me.)

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Lol at all these folks trying to push their ideological IdPol language, as someone with autism please dont refer to us as "neurodivergant". Its gross. I'm not neurodivergant I'm a dude with a minor disability and if a cure existed I'd take one in a heartbeat, because there is more to me than a vaguely defined illness.

That said I can see why youd think she was autistic, I certainly never met an insanely popular autistic person. That and the complete lack of social skills makes it so things check out. But I'd say being in the void for years and years probably has more to do with it.

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You played yourself. I'm also autistic. I was one of the people who said "neurodivergent". Like Iscah, I don't consider myself diseased and just that my brain works different. Now what?

Also weird that you're autistic but use the same broad brushstrokes about autistic traits that non-autistic people use. Disappointing.

But friendship is not a foreign concept to voidsent. Just Zero.

Zero is weird among voidsent. The only one who seems to have trouble interacting with others.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

But friendship is not a foreign concept to voidsent. Just Zero.

Zero is weird among voidsent. The only one who seems to have trouble interacting with others.

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Voidsent friendship seems to be centered around "food" rather than bonds so interacting with a group built around bonds would make her seem weird in comparison. plus the duo in her domain seem to be outliers in the thirteenth.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

Voidsent friendship seems to be centered around "food" rather than bonds so interacting with a group built around bonds would make her seem weird in comparison. plus the duo in her domain seem to be outliers in the thirteenth.

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Just to add to what you’ve said:

I have yet to see a pair of Voidsent that have a relationship I would classify as friendship. Even the two that appeared to be friends merely stuck together because the other option was both die due to lack of an aether source.

I stand by what I said on page 1; except for Zero sheltering the few dregs in her domain for seemingly no self gain, we have yet to meet a voidsent that acts altruistically.

Keep in mind the only Voidsent that seem to form familial or friendship based relationships are those that basically live in the Source full time. The Gruffs (Papa, Mama, and Little), Ultros and Typhon, the Continental Circus, gaelicat clowders, etc. Ones that no longer have to worry about the transactionality that rules voidsent lives as they're now self sustaining due to the non-Darkness aspected realm of the Source.

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Originally Posted by Zero-ELEC

Keep in mind the only Voidsent that seem to form familial or friendship based relationships are those that basically live in the Source full time. The Gruffs (Papa, Mama, and Little), Ultros and Typhon, the Continental Circus, gaelicat clowders, etc. Ones that no longer have to worry about the transactionality that rules voidsent lives as they're now self sustaining due to the non-Darkness aspected realm of the Source.

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Wait, Gaelicat are voidsents ? Wow, didn't expect that.

https://media.giphy.com/media/13871fiv9kBfkQ/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by RukoBoshi

Wait, Gaelicat are voidsents ? Wow, didn't expect that.

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It's an interesting one, because the Encyclopedia Eorzea suggests they are, but isn't actually certain about it, and there's some potentially conflicting information. Galicats are considered voidsent as far as in-universe academic classification, but in-universe academics might be wrong on this.

Galicats have a few quests in Elpis. They're a sort of alarm/messenger thing.

If Gaelicats exist in Elpis, then by definition would they NOT be voidsent? As they existed pre-sundering and certainly pre-first calamity.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

If Gaelicats exist in Elpis, then by definition would they NOT be voidsent? As they existed pre-sundering and certainly pre-first calamity.

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We need to know more about what determines the form a voidsent takes. It is clear that light and dark have inherent properties that creates creatures that look angelic and demonic as we would think of them. I do not think this is based off any beliefs of the people involved in the transformation either. I think light and dark had these properties and peoples beliefs shaped around that instead of light and dark being effected by the beliefs of those it warps.

It is possible the person making them in Elpis was trying out a life form that was more in tune with dark aether over the others and got that cat as a result.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

We need to know more about what determines the form a voidsent takes. It is clear that light and dark have inherent properties that creates creatures that look angelic and demonic as we would think of them. I do not think this is based off any beliefs of the people involved in the transformation either. I think light and dark had these properties and peoples beliefs shaped around that instead of light and dark being effected by the beliefs of those it warps.

It is possible the person making them in Elpis was trying out a life form that was more in tune with dark aether over the others and got that cat as a result.

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What you said about their forms made me remember that i thought it was weird how many voidsents looks exactly like Terminus beasts/Blasphemy.

I don't know if there's an actual relationship between these creatures, but it's interesting that the dark beings in the void look like the horrors seen in the final days.

There's also animals and monsters that also got turned into Sin Eaters or Voidsents, but don't really have any reasons to look like Blasphemies.

And then there's the Sin eaters that aren't inspired by anything we know of.
So it's hard to tell for me what define their forms. Is it just an arbitrary shape, or is it based on something that existed in the past ?

It's a "cats are evil" running gag, naturalists call them voidsent because they attacked the researchers... because they're temperamental little buggers who will claw at you with little to no provocation... because cats.You'll notice a lot of cat-related mobs/minions/mounts are also provisionally classified as voidsent.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

But friendship is not a foreign concept to voidsent. Just Zero.

Zero is weird among voidsent. The only one who seems to have trouble interacting with others.

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True, she is. I don't think it has to do with any medical condition, though. Unless you count partial amnesia or purposeful self-deception as a medical condition.

We know Y'shtola considers Zero's response about how she avoided becoming like other voidsent to be sus from her "... Is that so?" reaction to it. I am guessing one of the above is the reason for that. And if Zero isn't even remembering everything about herself or her past (due to suppressing it or w/e) then not remembering what a friend is isn't too far fetched. B/c as others have said, actual friendship isn't really present much in the 13th, it seems.

As for the Gruffs, and arguably the other members of the Halloween troupe, they have been on the Source and interacting with Source culture and people for quite a while. And they were all normal people once, themselves. Being in the Source's environment, free of the pressures the 13th has, has probably allowed them to develop socially enough to create things that look more like a family unit. And even as it is, one could argue the Halloween troupe is a kind of mobile domain with the orange pumpkin headed guy as its leader.

The way the thirteenth is described would be a society so alien to us that I don't think we could understand it if they didn't make voidsent more similar to us in some ways. Plus the higher up voidsent do seem to remember how things were before.

Zero mentioned meditation to keep her sense of self intact. It could be that concepts like friendship isn't something she focused on preserving, but other voidsent might have.