Using The paladin exploit in Onsal is indeed cheating

and you should be banned if you use it since 'Exploiting is cheating'

Fingers crossed, but they are supposed to re-work Guardian on tuesday.

We'll see in the patch notes monday night.

The damage has been done to the point where I never want to touch Onsal ever again.

I think it's been stated multiple times in other threads that it's been listed as "working as intended", and is therefore not cheating.

That being said, it's the lamest, most degenerate thing I've seen in FF PvP and I hope they make interaction with objectives impossible for covered players on tuesday so I can look at Onsal without throwing up in my mouth again.

Well i got my onsai mount, not gonna bother anytime soon again... the last months were hell...

Lucky you. I need still 25 wins for the Mount. :-(

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

and you should be banned if you use it since 'Exploiting is cheating'

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The interaction is gamebreaking in a single mode. It is working as intended because it uses the same logic as using Elixir (interrupt upon taking damage instances, which can be "0") thus it is not cheating. They have confirmed however that the side-effects of this interaction are clearly causing player frustration, thus they said they will look into it.

So no, how about we do not do a stupid PR move and ban people for THEIR lack of foresight about how the mechanic would be used.

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

and you should be banned if you use it since 'Exploiting is cheating'

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If they were to do that, it wouldn’t look good on SE’s part when it’s their fault for not seeing that potential exploit. Can’t blame the person for finding out the exploit and catch wind of it. They just have to adjust it and womp womp for the PLD for that content. There will be a new exploit, it just…….they need to learn from Pearl Abyss’s Black Desert. Just update every 1-2 weeks. Change dmg potencies, ranges, how the map works, etc.

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

and you should be banned if you use it since 'Exploiting is cheating'

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Dead horse. The hope is that SE might address it. But it's actually working exactly as intended, this is correct and designed behavior, and nobody should get punished for doing it.

Moved from Bug forum to Working as Intended forum:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-making-claims

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Originally Posted by Geryth

Dead horse. The hope is that SE might address it. But it's actually working exactly as intended, this is correct and designed behavior, and nobody should get punished for doing it.

Moved from Bug forum to Working as Intended forum:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-making-claims

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It's working as intended, but there's just one game mode the intended interaction fucks over. Some kind of acknowledgement would've been neat when it was first found out.

Something can work "as intended" and still be used unfairly. It would be easy to just remove the Cover effect when someone is taking a point, like how using a skill makes you lose the effect of Guard.

It's also a problem when I see my teammates say "we're losing, I'll switch to PLD and someone can come with me to cheese it" in order to force a win.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Something can work "as intended" and still be used unfairly. It would be easy to just remove the Cover effect when someone is taking a point, like how using a skill makes you lose the effect of Guard.

It's also a problem when I see my teammates say "we're losing, I'll switch to PLD and someone can come with me to cheese it" in order to force a win.

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Then I suppose Christmas came early for you because that is exactly what they did.

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PvP

In certain PvP duties, it was possible for players to interact with and take control of certain devices with little risk via the effect of Guardian used by a paladin. As this was an unintended use of the action, Guardian will no longer have an effect on targets interacting with an object.

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Cover interaction is changed. See ya all in the "Reduce the largescale pvp damage reduction" soon my friends.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Then I suppose Christmas came early for you because that is exactly what they did.

Cover interaction is changed. See ya all in the "Reduce the largescale pvp damage reduction" soon my friends.

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I just saw that and came here to mention it. I'm happy about it. Now people have to actually be strategic in the game instead of "hit two buttons and I get the point and no one can stop me". Get good, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I just saw that and came here to mention it. I'm happy about it. Now people have to actually be strategic in the game instead of "hit two buttons and I get the point and no one can stop me". Get good, I guess.

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Honestly it was overdue, no matter how working-as-intended-yet-unintended it was.

I still have my personal beef with Cover/Guardian though, like I don't get how they have learned nothing in two expansions of repeatedly adding Cover.

Cover denying kills on people who should rightfully have died for playing like an idiot overextending has been a problem since the first Stormblood iteration.

It took them years to figure that Intervention is more healthy and provides proactive gameplay. Now they do the same BS over again.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Honestly it was overdue, no matter how working-as-intended-yet-unintended it was.

I still have my personal beef with Cover/Guardian though, like I don't get how they have learned nothing in two expansions of repeatedly adding Cover.

Cover denying kills on people who should rightfully have died for playing like an idiot overextending has been a problem since the first Stormblood iteration.

It took them years to figure that Intervention is more healthy and provides proactive gameplay. Now they do the same BS over again.

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Perhaps next they can alter how Cover/Guardian works in PvP and instead of just protecting the person for 6/10 seconds, it can be like a tethered barrier, so once the player takes x% of their target's max HP worth of damage, the cover breaks and they're vulnerable again. I don't know. I don't design games. As long as it isn't just "this person is invincible for 6/10 seconds". And something that doesn't let them use Cover while also using Guard or any other invuln. It's too cheesable.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Perhaps next they can alter how Cover/Guardian works in PvP and instead of just protecting the person for 6/10 seconds, it can be like a tethered barrier, so once the player takes x% of their target's max HP worth of damage, the cover breaks and they're vulnerable again. I don't know. I don't design games. As long as it isn't just "this person is invincible for 6/10 seconds". And something that doesn't let them use Cover while also using Guard or any other invuln. It's too cheesable.

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Intervention | Ability
Cast: Instant
Recast: 25s
Effect: Grants Intervention to party member, reducing damage by x% (between 10 and 40% depending on other ideas to add here)
Duration: 8s

Adjustments can be made, but this is a generic template that has been used before and was considered strong and viable without being broken.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Intervention | Ability
Cast: Instant
Recast: 25s
Effect: Grants Intervention to party member, reducing damage by x% (between 10 and 40% depending on other ideas to add here)
Duration: 8s

Adjustments can be made, but this is a generic template that has been used before and was considered strong and viable without being broken.

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That seems fine to me. Something that just gives heavy mit to another player can turn the tide but not guaranteed if the player it was given to squanders it.

I figured it was coming nov not today but either way Im sure plenty will be happy, we both laughed and said …finally …reading that note today.

If I had to pick Id rather fight 8 man statics (again) then deal with this exploit anymore, say gbyeeeeee

FFXIV where a critical bugfix takes like 2 months

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Originally Posted by BRVV

FFXIV where a critical bugfix takes like 2 months

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The first post in the longest standing English thread about it was posted 4 months ago actually :^)

It doesn't matter what devs say, it was definitely intended and not cheating, just not fun and needed to be uniquely addressed once discovered. Devs can be wrong, too.

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Originally Posted by Karasio

The first post in the longest standing English thread about it was posted 4 months ago actually :^)

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The English bug report was made back in April lol.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

FFXIV where a critical bugfix takes like 2 months

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Considering it got flagged as "working as intended" when they changed it anyway, they must have considered it a balance issue instead of a bug.

And if the patch notes are any indication, the PLD squads will still be unkillable since their elixirs are unaffected.

So based on what the patch notes suggested; to me it highlights one of two things about the ability to exploit Guardian (or both) in such a way:

- The "PvP team"/devs literally could not figure out how to go forward or code the ability to not grant a player near immunity from claiming an ovoo in Frontlines situations while under its effect but still let it function to allow potion use uninterrupted in CC for several months on end...

- PvP is still an afterthought even after it's like, 3rd revamp into relevancy and after trying to be hyped up about keeping it relevant this time. So fixes like these are not of any real priority and should be expected to take months to address after their initial theatrics of timely balance/hotfix patches following CC's implementation.
*To piggy-back off the last point, I also find it equally likely that usage of Guardian in this way was not a prevalent or at least not an ongoing issue across the puddle for JP games, therefore not necessitating immediate action in the dev's eyes.

I'm willing to bet that the latter situation is the more likely cause. No matter how much they try to change their stripes, the devs always let PvP fall to the wayside after one patch revamps and "breathes life" back into it, before they stop updating vendor rewards or token rewards for the entirety of the expansion cycle- into the next. I would like for them to prove me wrong, but this isn't my first rodeo with their PvP behaviors. Aside that, yeah, yeah, good for them for addressing this PLD thing. It only took them this long to do it long after people threw their hands up in exasperation from the radio silence.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

FFXIV where a critical bugfix takes like 2 months

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Better than never.

Nah i don't care if that stuff was working as intended or not, if you can literally use something in one mode to break balance for something its a exploit, SE just needs to stop being prideful and accept responsibility for their failure. Thankfully now theres no point to this particular thread, lets go bitch about something else now!