Having run it several times, my most disliked part of the MSQ is:

Recruiting anything with a pulse to join the Crystal Braves.
I know some of these people are scum, from past experience.
I know how it's going to wind up, because I "have the Echo" from my previous runs.
And it's for that annoying pretentious child, whom my spouse calls "alpha-nerd."

I've never wanted actual agency so much any other time in the game.
"No, Laurentius, you cannot be in our club, because you're scum."

[Edit: this post is prompted by me doing it for the ninth damned time at the moment.]

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

"No, Laurentius, you cannot be in our club, because you're scum."

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On the contrary, I think Laurentius was genuinely trying to turn over a new leaf, and instead we walked him straight into the worst possible group of people we could put him with. Manipulative with a veneer of good intentions.

So I feel massively guilty for recruiting him, and then there's Wilred. :(

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Originally Posted by Iscah

On the contrary, I think Laurentius was genuinely trying to turn over a new leaf, and instead we walked him straight into the worst possible group of people we could put him with. Manipulative with a veneer of good intentions.

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That's an interesting perspective I'd not considered. Now all I can think about is an alternate timeline where Laurentius was the one who first raised concerns of shady dealings in the Crystal Braves, and as a result we found HIS dead body out in the woods.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

On the contrary, I think Laurentius was genuinely trying to turn over a new leaf, and instead we walked him straight into the worst possible group of people we could put him with. Manipulative with a veneer of good intentions.

So I feel massively guilty for recruiting him, and then there's Wilred. :(

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Hmm. I'll have to pay careful attention when I get to that part, and see if you're right.
But you being right won't make me feel any better about it. Might feel worse.

The best part about Laurentius (and yuyuhase) is that we have says in regard to their fate later on (stormblood) without having to see their face.... their bertrayal and behaviour even after ARR is the very attitude of coward at its finest...

...yet we never hear what the final sentence was.

I am normally AGAINST the death penalty, but in this case?.let them hang.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

On the contrary, I think Laurentius was genuinely trying to turn over a new leaf, and instead we walked him straight into the worst possible group of people we could put him with. Manipulative with a veneer of good intentions.

So I feel massively guilty for recruiting him, and then there's Wilred. :(

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Pretty sure that Laurentius had plenty of "second chances" prior to being recruited by the Crystal Braves, according to Buscarron(mentioned after your first run in with him). I do remember him feeling guilty during Baelsar's Wall though. I think he was just easily manipulated though for the most part.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

...yet we never hear what the final sentence was.

I am normally AGAINST the death penalty, but in this case?.let them hang.

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Yeah, they already exhausted their second chances and proved they can betray the trust put into them multiple times.

It's a shame that this choice and our decisions on Misija's fate in Bozja are never acknowledged after the initial decision.
Misija being the worst offender because they give you the choice to put her down before simply letting her die.

At least i can imagine that Laurentius and Yuyuhase were executed off screen.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

On the contrary, I think Laurentius was genuinely trying to turn over a new leaf, and instead we walked him straight into the worst possible group of people we could put him with. Manipulative with a veneer of good intentions.

So I feel massively guilty for recruiting him, and then there's Wilred. :(

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Laurentius was always a weird character to me, it feels like there was supposed to be way more to him after Baelsar's Wall but then he's just never brought up again.
Maybe in the future he'll get some small part in a role quest or something.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Pretty sure that Laurentius had plenty of "second chances" prior to being recruited by the Crystal Braves, according to Buscarron(mentioned after your first run in with him). I do remember him feeling guilty during Baelsar's Wall though. I think he was just easily manipulated though for the most part.

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That's exactly the thing. He was given a second chance and he was trying to take it when we came to him with what seemed like a fantastic opportunity for him to do something good with his life.

He is easily manipulated and that's why it was such a terrible thing for him to end up in a group of people eager to manipulate him – apparently by preying on that intent he had to to do better, and telling him it was the right thing to do in the grand scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Laurentius was always a weird character to me, it feels like there was supposed to be way more to him after Baelsar's Wall but then he's just never brought up again.
Maybe in the future he'll get some small part in a role quest or something.

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We don't see him again after Baelsar's Wall, but we do hear that he and Yuyuhase are apprehended, and Raubahn asks our opinion on whether they deserve death or mercy. From memory that was still only as a precursor to them getting a proper trial, though, so as far as we're aware they might still be awaiting sentence. It's a plot thread they could pick up when they want to.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

On the contrary, I think Laurentius was genuinely trying to turn over a new leaf, and instead we walked him straight into the worst possible group of people we could put him with. Manipulative with a veneer of good intentions.

So I feel massively guilty for recruiting him, and then there's Wilred. :(

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Sharp take. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

We don't see him again after Baelsar's Wall, but we do hear that he and Yuyuhase are apprehended, and Raubahn asks our opinion on whether they deserve death or mercy. From memory that was still only as a precursor to them getting a proper trial, though, so as far as we're aware they might still be awaiting sentence. It's a plot thread they could pick up when they want to.

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I think there was another brief mention earlier of a suspicious Hyur and Lalafell spotted around the Peaks, but we don't actually see them there either.

Raubahn agrees if you say they're too dangerous to live, or comments that you're more merciful than he is if you opt against it, but either way promises that he'll tell your opinion at the trial. So one way or another, their story is probably over.

No the guy dragged me around the Shroud playing victim the whole time. Dude betrayed hearth and home cause he felt he wasn't getting paid enough. Crystal Braves was the last chance for him from me. I don't regret telling Raubahn that they should hang. Sure he might have some how finally realized what selling out people that don't deserve it gets you right before he hit that button. But the guy still hit the damn thing. He might have won some points if he had turned himself in, but he didn't.

The only person who I feel bad getting recruited is that boy who we stopped from summoning one of the twelve as he really was trying to do better.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

No the guy dragged me around the Shroud playing victim the whole time. Dude betrayed hearth and home cause he felt he wasn't getting paid enough. Crystal Braves was the last chance for him from me. I don't regret telling Raubahn that they should hang. Sure he might have some how finally realized what selling out people that don't deserve it gets you right before he hit that button. But the guy still hit the damn thing. He might have won some points if he had turned himself in, but he didn't.

The only person who I feel bad getting recruited is that boy who we stopped from summoning one of the twelve as he really was trying to do better.

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Yeah that guy's was one of the few among the selected whom genuinely went out of his way to be better and to fix his own errors. But he was cut down before he could fulfill them.

I'm glad we at least got a really nice closure quest chain where we bring him home to a freed Ala Mhigo

I feel like some of Laurentius' characterization was lost when they condensed the related quests in the ARR revamp. The old way of having to chase him around, watch what he was doing and listening to him talk to himself spoke volumes compared to the abbreviated version we now get.

He was both opportunist and coward. That led to him being easily manipulated because he wanted to get rich with little to no effort and risk.

I do believe that murder wasn't his style but he was already in too deep by Baelsar's Wall and not doing it would have meant his own death, probably at Yuyuhase's hands.

Rewatching the scene on the Wall, Laurentius is clearly hesitating. He didn't really want to resort to the massacre, but he got in too deep, and he chose to kill everyone else rather than answer to Yuyuhase and Ilberd about it later. And looking at Yuyuhase's smug smirk, he knows it, too.

Yuyuhase, on the other hand, has been upfront all along about only being in it for the money. I kinda wonder how he got talked into the final plot. Was he paid up front but couldn't get out and away before the Alliance moved in, then got caught between them, the Resistance, and the Empire with nowhere to go? Were the two of them not told about Ilberd's death being part of the plan and just had to leg it without a further plan? We'll probably never know for sure.