GNB currently is, and has been, arguably one of the worst tanks, or even arguably one worst jobs overall, since the release of the Crystalline Conflict. I say this as a GNB main, who has been playing almost nothing but GNB for the past two expansions. I climbed to the Crystal rating on GNB on the very first season of CC, when it was at it absolute weakest, and continue to play GNB even today. I hope to highlight the main issues that still plague GNB in an attempt to reach a developers view to fix a job I dearly enjoy.
Draw and Junction. The best and the worst thing historically and currently about GNB. To say that I love the idea behind this ability is and understatement. In Shadowbringers, it was hands down one of my favorite abilities in the game as a whole. It was a swiss army knife, allowing you to use it for a wide variety of situations where you had to decide in a Feast match when a where the most optimal usage of it was. Currently, however, the way it is designed with the current game mode, some of your options are not only undesirable, but are severely limited.
As everyone already knows, there are no role restrictions in CC. This is a blessing in that you do not have to wait hours on end in a tank queue, but a curse in that it limits the functionality of GNB based off enemy comp. The flexibility is completely removed when you fight a team of two, or even, one role, and you lose out on a core component that is supposed to make the job special. These issues are compacted on top of the issues with the stances themselves.
Tank Stance is great, no argument there. It unlocks Nebula; 20% mitigation in a mode where everyone has a 20k nuke every 15sec that applies retaliation damage that scales off the Rough Divide buff. Tank Stance also provides shielding on oGCD's to help GNB be the brawler tank it is meant to be, and pre-popping Nebula is one of the few ways to not get deleted while channeling GNB LB(though this still often happens).
DPS Stance is decent. While the favorite of some GNB players for the ability to do very large amounts of burst damage, the fact that you become the squishiest and most vulnerable job in the game under DPS stance is not appealing. This is in part due to having no crowd control, or defensives other than default, which means you lose almost every 1v1 because of this, let alone in a group setting. However, smart swapping to DPS stance to finish off a weak opponent, or to clean up a winning fight, makes this stance still very useful in those situations.
Healer stance is arguably the worst as it has less sustain than Tank Stance, with far worse DPS than the other two stances. I have had some very minor success with it in limited situations, but for the most part it is a stance to ignore as the other stances would have likely been a better choice.
Here in lies the issue. The stances themselves are situational, which would be fine if you had full access to them to swap in those given situations. But because of the nature of CC, you are never guaranteed that option. In fact, it is very rare that I will have a game against all three roles, and when a situation arises where you would like to be in one stance for one reason or another, and that stance is not available, it really drives home how bad it is to play.
There is also the more minor issue of GNB LB and how you are a sitting duck when you are channeling it and how for the most part higher skilled players will simply CC you in place, or run out of it themselves, or they simply just melt you through it because 25% does not stop anything when you under focus fire. But I believe this would not be as much of an issue if the issues with Draw and Junction were properly addressed.
I have mentioned in the past a few changes I would personally make and will reiterate them again here:
1. Make Draw and Junction an ability similar to RDM's Black/White Shift, but instead cycle from Tank > Healer > DPS stance. This would allow a GNB to swap to whatever is situationally needed regardless of comp and I still believe this to be the best overall fix.
2. Allow you to Draw and Junction yourself and teammates. I prefer this less, but it still would put GNB in a better position if and when certain roles are missing from the enemy team.
3. Add a Stun to Blasting Zone. Reduce the potency a little if you must, but not having any defensive options in DPS Stance can be very punishing, and adding a single crowd control locked behind a specific stance I feel is not overwhelming and in my opinion would make the stance feel better to play.
4. Healer stance I am not 100% on how to fix. Maybe half the potency you get in DPS stance on Healer stance so that you aren't hitting like a wet noodle. Or maybe have Aurora apply a DPS buff for a short duration. The sustain in it is ok, not as good as Tank Stance, and the AoE healing can be nice in some specific circumstances, but Healer Stance needs some sort of change to make it as desirable as Tank or DPS stance in a given situation.
5. My gut wants to add anti-cc to GNB LB, but usually every LB has its niche pro's and con's, and I feel getting off a successful GNB LB is all part of its skill floor/ceiling. Perhaps a way to Purify while channeling GNB LB, or a way to Recuperate while channeling would be nice. Though I honesty feel simply giving GNB the option to swap stances more frequently, so you could swap to Tank Stance before you GNB LB so you don't instantly die, would fix this issue.
The buffs PVP GNB has gotten in the past have been welcomed, though none of them ever really addressed the key issues with GNB. Giving Burst Strike more damage or putting DnJ on a shorter cool down is unremarkable when you cannot be the flexible, jack of all trades, that GNB was designed to be. I would love to hear other peoples thoughts and suggestions, and I hope to see more meaningful and impactful changes made to GNB in PVP later on. The LAST thing I would want is for them to remove such a unique and personally enjoyable at times ability, though it to go untreated has been the core to GNB's struggle. Thank you for your time.
GNB Balance in Crystalline Conflict
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09-17-2022, 04:16 AMIxonGNB Balance in Crystalline Conflict
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09-17-2022, 09:33 PMNikoto
I actually think it's pretty good.
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09-18-2022, 12:21 AMReinhardt_Azureheim
I am in a similar camp with Nikoto here, I think overall GNB being the DPS-type of the tanks in the truest sense works well for the job and the hit-and-run playstyle of it.
[Junction: Tank] is as you said the brawler-style, but I personally think it applies too little pressure and early-game it is not really worth it over DPS stance because the Crystal has not moved much yet to lock it down in favourable spots.
[Junction: DPS] is the hit-and-run nuke that dives for 28400 damage every 20s. Either a finisher or a good engagement option for your team to fall in on a target. I personally think a stun on Blasting Zone would be too much without reducing the damage by more than half of the original. (i.e. 10000 -> 4000 + stun).
[Junction: Healer] is overall not bad, the greatest value is actually being able to support a party member being attacked with Aurora similar to DRK with TBN. The problem is the general accessibility to it, something the shortening of the Draw & Junction cooldown helps with to give more flexibility between modes.
Your idea to turn Draw & Junction to a shift-style ability is something I am in favour with, but it likely would mean a slight reduction in power of DPS and Tank styles most likely, in particular on Continuation due to the accessibility of it over Junctioned Cast [Nebula, Blasting Zone, Aurora].
While less prefered, being able to draw on your teammates and self is probably the best way to go with it. The least it would do is guarantee the option of [Junction: Tank]. -
09-18-2022, 12:38 AMLacksz
They gave Nin access to every ability in the game,
yet GNB's can't even choose which stance they want to use.
I agree with all the points, but to me, I just want the ability to use Purify during LB, which is already suggested above.
Making GNB LB immune to CC would make it braindead honestly.
I hate that GNB plays with RNG, it's either one of the best tanks IMO (Tank Stance) or one of the weakest jobs in CC with a DPS/Healer stance. -
09-18-2022, 12:52 AMReinhardt_AzureheimAgreeing with most of it, except your take on DPS stance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacksz
DPS GNB is surprisingly strong, the problem is merely you are playing a glass cannon. It does provide a ton of pressure however and paired with the +20% HEAL boost from Rough Divide, you can stay in a fight a bit longer unless bursted.
The difference in value is that Tank GNB gets no value if he is not attacked - he is basically stance-less if that happens, while DPS GNB hits much harder and faster. Depends on the situation I suppose. -
09-18-2022, 09:05 AMIxonExcept it's not "fine". It can do ok at best in specific situations against specific comps where it can access specific stances. That's not fine. GNB does not excel in anything another job couldn't do better. It's niche is its SUPPOSED to be a jack of all trades job in pvp. However, since most matches are not guaranteed, it loses out on the one thing it's supposes to be good at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim
WAR and PLD are fine in comparison. You see them frequently enough even in crystal games, but GNB is a D or C tier job at best. And the root cause is the loss of the flexibility GNB is supposed to be built around.
It's not an issue of "less prefered", no one wants it. -
10-29-2022, 10:59 AMGunbladesman
I groan every time I see a GNB on my team almost always a loss
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10-29-2022, 02:07 PMReinhardt_Azureheim"Gunbladesman, Lv90 Gunbreaker".Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunbladesman
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...02/unknown.png
Assuming no relation to your post - blame the fact that Gunbreaker is not easy to pick up and play, which is exactly what your average joe is doing. -
10-29-2022, 02:39 PMGordonGeeko
I'm curious to see what it looks like in ranked gameplay. I'll probably play it a bit in S4.
I played it in casual games and in Frontlines and I found it to be extremely strong. I would often get top damage and top kills by far on my teams.
I really don't understand the hate it's getting, but like I said, I haven't tested it in high rank. -
10-29-2022, 02:42 PMReinhardt_AzureheimHonestly I think if people would stop thinking about the fact that their icon is blue, they might realize that it is essentially a DPS/Bruiser, particularly with DPS stance. And boi, the damage it brings is solid.Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGeeko
That said, better accessibility to all three stances + giving Healer stance a tiny extra oomph (+10% dmg dealt for target who currently has Aurora regen to make up for no Blasting Zone / Nebula reflect) would be welcome. -
10-30-2022, 03:05 AMMithron
The only time GNB is viable is when they're diving enemy squishies in the backline and being ignored for 1vs1s, but even then all 5 melee DPS do that better while also being harder to kill than a GNB.
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10-30-2022, 05:48 AMOsmond
A shift style Draw & Junction? I’m for that. I don’t think they need to nerf its potencies, but give it a 30 sec cooldown if used that particular stance.
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10-30-2022, 07:16 AMTowa-Musa
I mean, you are /kinda/ right but i dont think GNB is that bad as i have 1v5ed on point in CC by using the LB+Double down.
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11-01-2022, 06:33 PMPangTong
No amount of little potency buffs is going to fix what's fundamentally wrong with GNB which is usability and lack of utility. Being locked out of 2/3 of your kit based on arbitrary cooldowns and who is nearby seriously harms the job. If you need Nebula you can't just decide to use it unless you were prescient and junctioned a tank earlier, if there even IS a tank to junction.
For a tank, not having ANY CC except on the awful LB makes setups and disruption impossible, which is normally the main role of a tank in PvP. Which raises the question of what GNB is actually meant to BE. Its gimmick is switching between tank, healer and DPS modes but it's not particularly good in any of them, and it can't switch as easily as it needs to be able to anyway.
Last big problem is the LB itself. Despite dealing good damage and having a short charge time, the range means enemies can simply walk out of it. But more importantly, you are a complete sitting duck while channelling Relentless Rush. You take damage, you are vulnerable to CC, you cannot use Guard, Purify, or Recuperate. Even with the added mitigation, using the LB is often more of a liability than a help. The only way to make good use of it is to have your allies set it up for you, which summarizes GNB in general. Highly reliant on team support, instead of providing support.
GNB needs imo at least 3 things:
1. Much easier way to switch junctions. Either just making it a cycle like OP suggests, ideally with a very short cooldown (5 seconds or less imo), or have 3 separate buttons for each junction (with the junction action going over the button while you are in the corresponding junction). Get rid of the whole targeting system entirely.
2. SOME kind of additional utility or defense available in all junctions. This could be something like debuffs/CC on Double Down, or an entirely new action. Maybe bring in Heart of Corundum or something? If GNB can't have direct support skills, they should at least be harder to kill.
3. Improve the LB. Assuming that a complete redesign is off the table, there are imo two decent options. Either add Heavy to Relentless Rush so enemies can't just walk out for free. OR make the GNB invincible while channelling. I don't think this is broken because you're locked out of everything and can be CC'd while you are while channelling, plus how easy it is to avoid. It's no worse than PLD's Hallowed Ground. At least with invincibility it becomes a solid option for area denial and a way to create an opening for your team, even if you can't hit anyone with it. They can make the charge time longer if need be, it would be worth it for the LB to not be as awful as it is now.