Meteodrive nerf was too much

So Meteodrive used to passively charge over 60 seconds, but now it has been changed to 75 seconds.

That means you're going to lose at least 1-2 usages of Meteodrive every match. More critically, it means you won't be able to use it before WHM and BLM get their LBs, which can heavily alter the course of the game.

Maybe this is an acceptable nerf on its own, but MNK is already a low damage job, whose strengths come from its ability to dive and tunnel squishy back-liners, relying heavily on yes, Meteodrive. This nerf has strongly limited MNK's potential in Crystalline Conflict and seems to show so far this season.

PS. Would it kill to add another second to Pressure Point? The snapshotting in this game makes this one of the most unreliable and janky thing I have ever seen.

The monk changes were misguided, and to top it off they left the two abilities that feel terrible to use, Pressure Point and Riddle of Earth, completely unchanged.

I gave up trying to climb out of Gold rank with Monk. It was a great job to keep oppressive BLMs under control, but we can't have that happening to such a precious job. Not to mention the amount of times I've had them survive because Meteordive didn't register pressure point was infuriating since it put you so far behind in LB economy.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

The monk changes were misguided, and to top it off they left the two abilities that feel terrible to use, Pressure Point and Riddle of Earth, completely unchanged.

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It's a little strange that Earth's Reply has to be activated manually each time, when AST's Microcosmos, practically the same ability, is autocast at the end of its duration.

Too many reductions and nerfs, lately. Soon we will all have pool noodles and a beach frontline lol.

Meteodrive wasn't exactly gamebreaking, it closed in a kill almost effectively as a polymorph+afflatus. I wonder what kind of testing and data they are going by to make these decisions as Monk was one of the more balanced classes.

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Originally Posted by AtomicBomb

So Meteodrive used to passively charge over 60 seconds, but now it has been changed to 75 seconds.

That means you're going to lose at least 1-2 usages of Meteodrive every match. More critically, it means you won't be able to use it before WHM and BLM get their LBs, which can heavily alter the course of the game.

Maybe this is an acceptable nerf on its own, but MNK is already a low damage job, whose strengths come from its ability to dive and tunnel squishy back-liners, relying heavily on yes, Meteodrive. This nerf has strongly limited MNK's potential in Crystalline Conflict and seems to show so far this season.

PS. Would it kill to add another second to Pressure Point? The snapshotting in this game makes this one of the most unreliable and janky thing I have ever seen.

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i i have been two shot by a monk from full HP down to 0 in CC by them simply using pressure point/meteodive, This post is such a non issue.

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

i i have been two shot by a monk from full HP down to 0 in CC by them simply using pressure point/meteodive, This post is such a non issue.

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Thats... literally the point of Meteodrive. To secure a single kill with the combo. Monk's damage is absolute dog since it takes ages to build up to Phantom Rush.

We all know why the LB was nerfed to 75 seconds. To help those poor, abused BLMs from getting K.Od when they use their LB.

Stop trying to derive any kind of logic or reason from the useless PvP team, their brains are currently on leave.

MNK's LB was bad design from the get-go, same with MCH. Instakilling squishies is not a valid identity.

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Originally Posted by AtomicBomb

It's a little strange that Earth's Reply has to be activated manually each time, when AST's Microcosmos, practically the same ability, is autocast at the end of its duration.

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More infuriating is how it seems to take 10 yrs for the heal to happen after you hit the input, even longer than things like Recuperate. It should be as instant as the game architecture allows. If this is "Earth's Reply", then the Earth is on dial-up.

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

i i have been two shot by a monk from full HP down to 0 in CC by them simply using pressure point/meteodive, This post is such a non issue.

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I as a monk main would agree. It can be too much burst damage, in a game mode where a few jobs (like MCH) have too much. That said, I feel this is not the way to nerf it. The big burst combo happens with Rising Phoenix-boosted Enlightenment. I rather they have taken like 4k or something damage out of the full combo (which they added to MNK in an early patch) rather than increase the CD length. It's still a deadly LB because of the shield break and 3 sec CC, but it would feel a lot more fair, while having the short CD which I think suited the gameplay speed of MNK.

I would agree the Monk LB charge time is a bit ridiculous right now; honestly expect to see SAM LBs more than MNK now, which is terrifying since that's a once a blue moon occurrence. Having said that; Monk's main strength is synergy, you can still get kills even with horrible ping but it takes ten times the effort of certain other classes without support, so it encourages you to be a little more tactical on one hand, but... this is where we come into the other problem: the toolkit has a long windup compared to other DPS, and the gap-closer, Thunderclap? Nigh on useless. Seriously, no damage to an enemy target to stop them sprinting or whatever, so you end up spamming it over and over just to hit them at all, no one even cares about the speed buff by that point. Or the 6K shield either for that matter.

So yes, I get Monk is meant to be somewhat technical, a counter to the backliners. A straight up heavy cooldown nerf to the LB, however, misses the mark as to what was wrong with it and how it could be made a little fairer an opponent to face, versus the insane risk they need to put themselves in to do their jobs. The high burst is also only truly deadly if you're prevented from playing the game, which the LB can do briefly sure, but you're more likely to run into issues with other classes' basic abilities - especially since diminishing returns doesn't exist. :X

I'm not too miffed with the Meteodrive nerf. I still think it's on par with many other LBs.

Compare it to NIN's for example. MNK's is now on a 75s recast, removes Guard, stuns for 3s and kills most jobs under 80% HP with little set-up,. NIN's recast is 15s longer, kills under 50% with 1 button, goes through Guard and has the potential to kill more than 1 enemy. Basically, better kill assurances and shorter recast vs bigger potential. It's also not so different than Marksman's Spite if you add 15s to its recast and remove its stun and Guard removal.

So no, MNK's LB a far cry from underpowered even with the added 15s. MNK's issues are not with its LB, but with its kit because having to actively generate your burst through fighting is a big drawback for a Melee DPS.

Personally, I'm annoyed about how Riddle of Earth/Earth's Reply's functionality was left untouched. What a terrible defensive CD. It divides your attention because you don't want it to run out and you are unable to use it while being CC'ed. It is a glorified and janky Recuperate.

I want them to make Earth's Reply also break CC (like SAM's Meikyo Shisui) so you can get the heal off anytime and also straight up help MNK's survivability. Or have it automatically go off when your HP reaches below 40%.

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Originally Posted by Petite

I'm not too miffed with the Meteodrive nerf. I still think it's on par with many other LBs.

Compare it to NIN's for example. MNK's is now on a 75s recast, removes Guard, stuns for 3s and kills most jobs under 80% HP with little set-up,. NIN's recast is 15s longer, kills under 50% with 1 button, goes through Guard and has the potential to kill more than 1 enemy. Basically, better kill assurances and shorter recast vs bigger potential. It's also not so different than Marksman's Spite if you add 15s to its recast and remove its stun and Guard removal.

So no, MNK's LB a far cry from underpowered even with the added 15s. MNK's issues are not with its LB, but with its kit because having to actively generate your burst through fighting is a big drawback for a Melee DPS.

Personally, I'm annoyed about how Riddle of Earth/Earth's Reply's functionality was left untouched. What a terrible defensive CD. It divides your attention because you don't want it to run out and you are unable to use it while being CC'ed. It is a glorified and janky Recuperate.

I want them to make Earth's Reply also break CC (like SAM's Meikyo Shisui) so you can get the heal off anytime and also straight up help MNK's survivability. Or have it automatically go off when your HP reaches below 40%.

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Yeah. I would have happily taken a nerf if it means our defensive didn't displease me so. This isn't a balance problem for me; it just isn't a good button to press. It feels really bad.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Thats... literally the point of Meteodrive. To secure a single kill with the combo. Monk's damage is absolute dog since it takes ages to build up to Phantom Rush.

We all know why the LB was nerfed to 75 seconds. To help those poor, abused BLMs from getting K.Od when they use their LB.

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Thats the point of 90% of every LB dude, im just pointing out that the OPs reasoning behind this thread is a 'non issue'

I've mentioned this before, but the largest problem with monk is that it's burst is too low/slow compared to nearly every other class. This has to be addressed in one way or another.

The old concept (which matchmaking still seems to believe in) was that monk was a bulky pseudotank who could just bulldoze through and abuse a target. However absolutely none of monks defensives are % based and are all flat values. With three updates worth of nearly universal potency buffs, monk defensives have not been properly scaled to match, at all, what so ever. So if you dive into a target, you're going to die noticably faster, and most likely going to be cc'd for double digits worth of time as well, which forces you to drop phantom rush combo, and earth reply activation(which already take seconds)

As far as I can tell monk can barely win one on ones anymore without relying on their lb, as they simply have no way to keep up in a sustained fight of attrition anymore, and even that depends on the matchup. (Blm literally shred through all my defensives and three heal pots worth of hp before I can resource drain them even after flatfooting them with an ambush)

At one case I ended up matched up against a blm friend for eight games, I used to bully him pretty hard as a priority target, and win most of our matches but now I have to cling to dear life to keep him distracted from destroying my team. He ended going from silver to plat in those eight games we had and I only killed him once in about 15+ solo engagements (as opposed to the about 80% win rate I had in beginning cc)

It's feeling a lot like the old hell days of monk where you basically could not win any one on one fights and were mostly there for disruption like stuns and peeling buffs and regen stacks off enemies whose healers were too distracted to notice

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Originally Posted by Vermillionwing

I've mentioned this before, but the largest problem with monk is that it's burst is too low/slow compared to nearly every other class. This has to be addressed in one way or another.

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Know that MNK's burst is not that far behind, has the potential to be more frequent than each 20s and, most importantly, can have an instant 2s stun or KB weaved in. So no, their burst is not the point that needs addressing the most.

I never said it was, the problem is more the ability to deliver it reliably because it's so back loaded comparatively.

If half your burst is loaded enlightenment and the other half is on PR which you almost never reach reliably, then it doesn't matter if it comes up every 20 seconds or not. Burst by definition is how much spike you can deliver in a tiny span of time. Cumulatively it is on the lower end in exchange for being able to execute it repeatedly, but if that isn't facilitated then there's no actual pro to the con.

So they need to either allow us to focus on quantity by increasing survivability/ability to repeatedly deliver phantom rush. Or they need to increase how much damage we do without phantom rush. Under these circumstances the lb nerf is taking away what we already don't have.