New Extreme Trial and positionals

So I just want to say the mechanics in this fight are a great challenge and I'm personally enjoying the process of learning it. However, its more of a mixed story for melee. While its a welcome change of pace, it shows that positional damage requirements do not work in a fight where the near constant act of dodging forces the melee DPS to move in a way contradictory to their positional requirements. From my initial assessment, the only moments when directional damage is being applied is when the requirement is being negated by true north. I'm not saying it never happens, but comparatively speaking to other extreme trials there is maybe 10% of the fight where positionals can be executed in a normal fashion.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

So I just want to say the mechanics in this fight are a great challenge and I'm personally enjoying the process of learning it. However, its more of a mixed story for melee. While its a welcome change of pace, it shows that positional damage requirements do not work in a fight where the near constant act of dodging forces the melee DPS to move in a way contradictory to their positional requirements. From my initial assessment, the only moments when directional damage is being applied is when the requirement is being negated by true north. I'm not saying it never happens, but comparatively speaking to other extreme trials there is maybe 10% of the fight where positionals can be executed in a normal fashion.

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10% is not even remotely close to being accurate, you're heavily overstating her movement

Positionals not always being able to be done and forced disengaging from the boss was always supposed to be the trade off for melee doing 10% more damage than the other DPS, now they just give endless free uptime and we all accept melee do more damage

If anything fights like this and endsinger which challenge BLM for its high damage output are the kinds of fights that show off the balance square tries to achieve, full uptime brain dead savage fights just lead to 2/1/1 parties being a lock because of melee damage output

Positionals will frankly always have this downside whenever there is any kind of randomized mechanic based on boss direction. I agree it's a little nutty to throw in things like Brutal Swing so often, but it's an inherent challenge that comes with MDPS, and basically the only reason boss positioning is such a need from tanks. There's gonna be those fights where positionals are just a massive headache, but I think the devs do a well-enough job of throwing omnidirectional bosses in at a well enough pace that there is a nice portion of relaxation on it.

Overall, MDPS positionals are a hassle, what else is new?

There have been a lot of bosses recently that like to turn to face south, so the tank, who is north, ends up making the boss rotate back.

In some fights I've gone as far as just moving south so that the boss doesn't turn more times than it needs to and make it more annoying for the melee. It happens with some of the bosses in Aglaia as well. Why does SE want me to tank the boss south?

Tanks should be turning the boss when shes at the wall.

I don't know the value of positionnals but they're really just for players who wants to min-max.
You can just hit the boss front and will barely lose anything.

If I remember it's lower than 5%...?

If anyone had the actual value, I'd be grateful for it!

I mean that's an aspect of the fight: to understand cast timings and your parties strat to determine how you setup your combos, which positional you're going for, whether you can greed a positional without killing yourself or your fellow party members, and whether or not to use true north for a specific mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

So I just want to say the mechanics in this fight are a great challenge and I'm personally enjoying the process of learning it. However, its more of a mixed story for melee. While its a welcome change of pace, it shows that positional damage requirements do not work in a fight where the near constant act of dodging forces the melee DPS to move in a way contradictory to their positional requirements. From my initial assessment, the only moments when directional damage is being applied is when the requirement is being negated by true north. I'm not saying it never happens, but comparatively speaking to other extreme trials there is maybe 10% of the fight where positionals can be executed in a normal fashion.

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Could always play a caster and have to fight for uptime in a constant state of movement like this Extreme fight.

I think its a fine balance, Melee are fighting for positionals and casters are fighting to actually be able to cast.

Hats off to all the BLM players out there.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I don't know the value of positionnals but they're really just for players who wants to min-max.
You can just hit the boss front and will barely lose anything.

If I remember it's lower than 5%...?

If anyone had the actual value, I'd be grateful for it!

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Taking DRG as an example: they lose a total of 250 potency over the course of their 10 GCD combo loop if they hit no positional at all unless I miscalculated.
Their 10 GCD has a total potency of 2900 not counting any buffs or the dot ticks if you hit all positionals, just the base potency. But since melees have True North and a boss is never constantly spinning like a beyblade (unless the tank trolls you) it's impossible to never hit any positionals at all during a fight. If you hit roughly half of your positionals it's closer to 3-4% potency loss on the upfront potency of your GCDs. Counting oGCDs and dot damage, the total dps less is way below 5%.

And DRG is very rigid, jobs like NIN have a lot more wiggle room for hitting theirs. And RPR doesn't even have positionals during burst iirc?

I understand the frustration but honestly the dmg check for that fight isn't that hard most parties are already clearing that 1 phase before the enrage so I think this is one of those fights where positional are optional and staying alive is way more important than being greedy and if they enabled the full circle the boss would just have more hp which is bad for every role aside melee and every group would had to meet the enrage to clear.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Could always play a caster and have to fight for uptime in a constant state of movement like this Extreme fight.

I think its a fine balance, Melee are fighting for positionals and casters are fighting to actually be able to cast.

Hats off to all the BLM players out there.

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Even the healers can't dps as much. :p

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Even the healers can't dps as much. :p

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That's mostly because farm parties are terrible at not eating dmg downs at every opportunity or nuking each other during bumps/ spreads though.
Slidecasts cover the majority of the movement, including during tangles. You'll need to pop Sprint before from time to time but things like donut > spread, tangles, wall cleave can be covered with them. Takes some balls from time to time and I can't say I slidecasted everything but for the times I didn't I notice that I could have.

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Originally Posted by AmpelioB

I understand the frustration but honestly the dmg check for that fight isn't that hard most parties are already clearing that 1 phase before the enrage so I think this is one of those fights where positional are optional and staying alive is way more important than being greedy and if they enabled the full circle the boss would just have more hp which is bad for every role aside melee and every group would had to meet the enrage to clear.

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Yeah you can have like a good chunk of deaths and still clear it anyways. Girl's not got much health but damn can she slap.