Huge Astrologian nerfs? Why!?

Astrologian's cards were changed. They lost The Ewer and The Spire (mana regen and LB generation) and instead got The Bole (damage mitigation) and The Arrow (reduced cast time and small movement speed).

The loss of The Spire changed how the job plays to a major degree. Astrologian already had one of the slowest generating LB's, seemingly to make up for The Spire buff, and now it feels like every match I'll get one, maybe two LB's off. Not to mention my team no longer gets faster LB's and that also plays a major role in the tempo of the game when I can no longer provide my team with faster push potential.

The job feels majorly nerfed. Anyone else feel this?

I main AST and SCH in PvP and it also hit me hard. It kind of cheapens the utility of AST for me, but SQE's mindset to me is unfathomable (I mean nyarlathotep level of nuts) when it comes to their poor decision-making in this regard. Spire was at least a great benefit that brought a lot to the table for the job in PvP. It let us help clinch LB generation for those near losses to become windfalls, only to be replaced by what feels more like token 'Balancing' and I'm not making a pun on the card. Taking Ewer I can understand, but then again it did help here or there given the right situation. But how many Jobs now sport LB generating abilities? Because we must hide them from the SQE PvP 'team'.

they seem to ahve based nerfed on which classes was winning the most. so if AST had high wins that is probably why

AST's win ratio was middling with WHM and SCH having noticeably lower/higher ratios.

It seems like they didn't even understand why the old AST cards were useful if they think the current ones are objectively better,

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Originally Posted by Geryth

Astrologian's cards were changed. They lost The Ewer and The Spire (mana regen and LB generation) and instead got The Bole (damage mitigation) and The Arrow (reduced cast time and small movement speed).

The loss of The Spire changed how the job plays to a major degree. Astrologian already had one of the slowest generating LB's, seemingly to make up for The Spire buff, and now it feels like every match I'll get one, maybe two LB's off. Not to mention my team no longer gets faster LB's and that also plays a major role in the tempo of the game when I can no longer provide my team with faster push potential.

The job feels majorly nerfed. Anyone else feel this?

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Spire affects teammates that are close too so they definitely didn't want LB regen group to be a thing.

Although if they could allow Astro to have its personal LB regeneration would be something.

As much as it sucks i sadly knew the change was coming, the class is very good and fun so something was gonna be put down (although using wins as measure is... really not exactly consistent)

The meta was formed, the spire was too good. The ewer double mp recovery. You say SCH’s mummification was bad, it made that tool look like a joke. Now………you just got SCH’s utilities in the cards…

Because AST was really strong and Spire broke the game pretty much :p

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Originally Posted by Nanne

Because AST was really strong and Spire broke the game pretty much :p

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AST was in a great place at like 51% win rate, "broke the game" is hyperbole. Sure it was a little strong, and I get that maybe the job needed an adjustment. But what happened was a pure gutting of what made the job good with nothing to bring it back up. In CC, limit breaks are very much win or lose situations so giving your team faster and more LB's was insane. AST needed a small buff elsewhere to compensate. At the very least their own LB needed to be fixed so that it generates at the same rate as most other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

Because AST was really strong and Spire broke the game pretty much :p

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Spoken like a white mage player. Begone

I miss Spire but I’m fine with Bole and Arrow. I thought they should of given us Bole over Ewer anyway.

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Spoken like a white mage player. Begone

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I played ONLY AST for 14 seasons of Feast. About 60% of my matches in season 1-2 of CC were on AST and 40% on WHM/SGE/SCH. Still agreeing that AST needed nerfs :p

The Spire was too broken (and you're incredibly delusional for thinking otherwise) while the Ewer was useless in a lot situations. It's a good change.

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Originally Posted by Kathleen_

The Spire was too broken (and you're incredibly delusional for thinking otherwise) while the Ewer was useless in a lot situations. It's a good change.

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For those of you crying that "spire was too broken" - context is all. Spire in CC with a group that stays with the AST is one thing, it was a buff that the group would utilize to its full potential. Spire in other circumstances was definitely not broken- there could be multiple circumstances when party members miss the buff. Taking spire away and then not adjusting AST personal LB generation ? Doesn't make any sense.

So where you would say "it's a good change" is like SE applying changes just by looking at win rates without also providing metrics on how often a job is played (pick rates) . It doesn't tell the full story, and in the case of SE their job tweaks look odd as a consequence.

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Originally Posted by Kathleen_

The Spire was too broken (and you're incredibly delusional for thinking otherwise) while the Ewer was useless in a lot situations. It's a good change.

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With a 51% win rate, in a game mode that's solo queue only, no, it wasn't. Maybe this was nerfed for 8 person FL queuers? In CC it was, at best, a little too strong. The job now is not good. I agree the job needed a change because your first two draws of the game being The Spire vs. The Ewer made too big of a difference in the match's outcome.

Just because a change was needed doesn't mean that any change at all is a good change.

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Originally Posted by Geryth

With a 51% win rate, in a game mode that's solo queue only, no, it wasn't. Maybe this was nerfed for 8 person FL queuers? In CC it was, at best, a little too strong. The job now is not good. I agree the job needed a change because your first two draws of the game being The Spire vs. The Ewer made too big of a difference in the match's outcome.

Just because a change was needed doesn't mean that any change at all is a good change.

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In FL, spire was dependant upon your group- if you and your group were able to stay together AND if RNG was on your side- then you would get a lot of benefit out of it. If on the other hand, you weren't drawing spire and/or your party was either getting annihilated or running in completely different directions, taking them out out your buff range- then the benefit was clearly not as strong. So I don't see why FL would justify this change.

I'm even less convinced given that AST PVE changes to minor arcana , which in principle were a good idea, ended up being poorly implemented and will hopefully get patched.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I don't see why FL would justify this change.

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You can't group queue in CC, so after the first 2 draws, it can become very hard to buff 3+ people with randoms.

In frontlines you can queue as an 8 party group. I can easily see how an pre-nerf AST in an 8 person group in discord could cause problems in frontlines. Regardless of what SE was thinking or trying to accomplish, I think AST was way too harshly nerfed.

PvP in this game is pretty terrible tbh. We have a bunch of people who are only used to pre-choreographed fights try to use skill for the first time lol. I think one of the biggest issues though is the terrible matchmaking. The game seems to favor fast queue times over attempting to queue players with people of similar ranks; often times I get matches with 3 different tiers all in the same fight... Like what??? What's even worse than matchmaking though? The lack of a fatigue system for CC. The fact that you can be stun-locked for 8+ seconds goes to show the devs no nothing about what competitive gameplay should look like.

Now that I got that rant out of the way, since I main AST, it doesn't surprise me. They could've buffed some of AST damage in exchange to the nerfs. It's so incredibly bad now lol all it had to make it good was those cards...They didn't have to nerf every single decent aspect of the job lol. Hopefully AST gets a boost in LB gauge and some damage buffs or something cuz it's kinda bleh atm lol

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Originally Posted by RyoXander

PvP in this game is pretty terrible tbh. We have a bunch of people who are only used to pre-choreographed fights try to use skill for the first time lol. I think one of the biggest issues though is the terrible matchmaking. The game seems to favor fast queue times over attempting to queue players with people of similar ranks; often times I get matches with 3 different tiers all in the same fight... Like what??? What's even worse than matchmaking though? The lack of a fatigue system for CC. The fact that you can be stun-locked for 8+ seconds goes to show the devs no nothing about what competitive gameplay should look like.

Now that I got that rant out of the way, since I main AST, it doesn't surprise me. They could've buffed some of AST damage in exchange to the nerfs. It's so incredibly bad now lol all it had to make it good was those cards...They didn't have to nerf every single decent aspect of the job lol. Hopefully AST gets a boost in LB gauge and some damage buffs or something cuz it's kinda bleh atm lol

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It got so much worse after 6.2 dropped. Before that you'd maybe have an odd silver in a bronze game but now I've seen full bronze teams go against teams with 2 gold, a silver and 2 bronze. Like what the fuck is this matchmaking.

And post update AST is just SCH but better lol. Absolutely gutted and they even nerfed SCH's numbers DOWN for some reason.

SCH was by far the highest win-rate class in CC. I'm not sure what changed for them or if those changes were overboard (like with AST), but that's probably why SCH got a nerf.

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Originally Posted by Geryth

SCH was by far the highest win-rate class in CC. I'm not sure what changed for them or if those changes were overboard (like with AST), but that's probably why SCH got a nerf.

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It's mostly the adlo/biolysis AoEs every 15secs......THAT's it, but that doesn't mean it was the best healer job in PvP. It was mainly AST, it's the......"employee of the year" in a sense. It WAS WHM at first, but after seeing the meta with AoE spire/LB or AoE balance/LB combined with other LBs from other jobs. It was disgusting if planned well. SCH doesn't have that so it make sense to have the high rate because it's not the most played, but have the most wins. We only have what the devs have given us, but if they were to give us in better context, the rate of play would be low. Now that AST is SCH v2.0, I can see crazy things happening with AoE Arrow/LB. 10% on everything including movement speed, LB with 30% dmg buff/dmg reduction with their gravity 2s and/or LBs from other jobs. I can see that more scary or equal to with spire buffs/LB.

SCH will have the same rate if they report it again. High rate, but low participation play......I'm betting on it.

Edit: The more I think about it, this was a mistake on the change lol. AST can have a quicker macrocosmos, a quicker gravity 2, a quicker draw. This is.......lol. They'll have to buff SCH again lol.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

I can see crazy things happening with AoE Arrow/LB. 10% on everything including movement speed, LB with 30% dmg buff/dmg reduction with their gravity 2s and/or LBs from other jobs.

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See, the thing is, AST doesn't get their LB any more. That's the main issue here. Because of pre-nerf The Spire, their LB generation was drastically lowered compared to other classes so that with the buff, it was more in line of becoming ready the same as other classes. Without The Spire, you just never have their LB anymore. This was way more of a nerf than The Bole or The Arrow can make up for.