Possible blacklist addition

Can we get waymarks someone has on them added to things you don't see from someone who's blacklisted?

Just did the trial. Only 1 or 2 people weren't new. We wipe a single time, and someone's already dorito'd themselves without anyone asking and is going over mechanics in chat. The trial's only been out for six hours. Chat can be closed, but it's impossible not to see the dorito.

I didn't think things were really that bad and it seems very recoverable. A little trial and error and we'd have been fine. But we'll never know how well we would have done on the second round because someone didn't let us.

Ive only played one time at server live after a patch, this was a few years ago, but i was in new content less than an hour after live and before we even pulled someone was spewing out strats. Its terrible how some people can be. True blind playthoughs of content are unfortunately rare :(

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

Ive only played one time at server live after a patch, this was a few years ago, but i was in new content less than an hour after live and before we even pulled someone was spewing out strats. Its terrible how some people can be. True blind playthoughs of content are unfortunately rare :(

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They are. I mean, that's why people play Day One. That's the only possible time a blind playthrough is remotely possible but then some jerk ruins it.

That's why I'm looking forward to Variant dungeons scaling by number of people. I can do things myself and not get anything spoiled.

Wow, imagine that, people so helpful someone wants a feature to turn their help off. I wonder if others were thankful or as resentful as you...

I get what you are saying, but at the same time, what you get in DF is what you get. The only 100% way to ensure you get what you want would be to form a PF group indicating exactly what the group is. I realize the patch is new, so your chances of getting someone who has already done the fight increases as the day goes on, but I'm failing to see exactly what rule was broken in them giving out fight info.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

Wow, imagine that, people so helpful someone wants a feature to turn their help off. I wonder if others were thankful or as resentful as you...

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Don't join a party labeled blind then if you're going to spew strats when you load in. Not everyone wants your help

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Don't join a party labeled blind then if you're going to spew strats when you load in. Not everyone wants your help

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I must have missed something. Can you point out where anyone said they joined a party labeled blind? Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Menriq

I must have missed something. Can you point out where anyone said they joined a party labeled blind? Thanks!

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They didn't but the point still stands for DF as well, I've just seen it way more in Party Finder. Not everyone wants your help, shut up and let people figure it out themselves if they want instead of spewing explanations immediately.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

I get what you are saying, but at the same time, what you get in DF is what you get. The only 100% way to ensure you get what you want would be to form a PF group indicating exactly what the group is. I realize the patch is new, so your chances of getting someone who has already done the fight increases as the day goes on, but I'm failing to see exactly what rule was broken in them giving out fight info.

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Someone doesn't have to break a rule to get added to someone's blacklist. Sometimes it's just that said person doesn't want to see anything from them. I'd just like to see them add waymarks since there's no way to avoid those currently. So this way we can be proactive about preserving our experience.

And Misplaced_Marbles, it's Day One. People just want a fair chance at figuring things out. Nobody asked for a dorito.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Someone doesn't have to break a rule to get added to someone's blacklist. Sometimes it's just that said person doesn't want to see anything from them. I'd just like to see them add waymarks since there's no way to avoid those currently. So this way we can be proactive about preserving our experience.

And Misplaced_Marbles, it's Day One. People just want a fair chance at figuring things out. Nobody asked for a dorito.

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Oh you adding them to your blacklist is not up for debate. You are entitled to add whomever you want to that list. Just so we are clear, I'm not one to offer strats unless someone asks. That is why I've wiped a few times in the new dungeon / trial so that people can see it for themselves. However, since DF is whatever you get (Good, bad, whatever), I'm of the opinion that you are at the mercy of whatever happens. Again, the only way to almost ensure you get what you wanted was to create a PF with what you were doing. Is it ideal? Probably not. However, it would be up to each person to decide if it matters that much to them, or if they are willing to take the risk of someone "spoiling" something. I'm not sure why they didn't, but I think a perfectly viable alternative would have been to allow it to be done with trusts.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

I'm not sure why they didn't, but I think a perfectly viable alternative would have been to allow it to be done with trusts.

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After Mothercrystal and having it be in MSQ, I was surprised they didn't. That's really the ultimate solution. I'm curious if they will go back and revamp this, since I believe they said the final goal is for the entire MSQ to be able to be done solo, but they weren't focusing on 8-man raid revamps first. When I heard it was going to be connected to MSQ, I considered it might be a 4-man with Duty Support.

Until they can do that, this would at least be a small band-aid fix. Alternatively, just allow them to be turned off entirely in options. Or crazy insane out there idea, only enable them for premade groups, lol. That would make some Alliance Roulette raids rather spicy.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

They didn't [join a party labeled blind in PF[ but the point still stands for DF as well. Not everyone wants your help, shut up and let people figure it out themselves

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No, it does not apply to DF.

People in DF shouldn't have to remain silent or not mark themselves when it means repeated wipes because someone -- someone who is too lazy or ignorant to use PF but too conceited to accept help -- wants to figure out the mechanics for themselves.

Lacking an agreement to do a blind run, people should respect the other players' time, and not waste it just for their own ego gratification.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

No, it does not apply to DF.

People in DF shouldn't have to remain silent or not mark themselves when it means repeated wipes because someone -- someone who is too lazy or ignorant to use PF but too conceited to accept help -- wants to figure out the mechanics for themselves.

Lacking an agreement to do a blind run, people should respect the other players' time, and not waste it just for their own ego gratification.

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No, the content is less than 12 hours old. Just be respectful and let people actually enjoy things the first time around. People in this game have absolutely no patience to let anyone learn at their own pace or take more than 1 pull to figure things out.
It has to be done asap so they can get on with the next soulless part of their arbitrary grind.

I swear to god this community absolutely optimizes and sucks the fun out of everything under the guise of "respecting their time", trying to go as fast as possible every time. Don't dare play it like it's a video game, this is a serious business job and I need to finish all the patch content immediately on the first day or else.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

No, the content is less than 12 hours old. Just be respectful and let people actually enjoy things the first time around. People in this game have absolutely no patience to let anyone learn at their own pace or take more than 1 pull to figure things out.
It has to be done asap so they can get on with the next soulless part of their arbitrary grind.

I swear to god this community absolutely optimizes and sucks the fun out of everything under the guise of "respecting their time", trying to go as fast as possible every time. Don't dare play it like it's a video game, this is a serious business job and I need to finish all the patch content immediately on the first day or else.

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It is a level 90+ content, where most people already know what to expect in DF unless they just hardboosting for harder content.

If I want to do something blind at this point, I will make a PF to do so. Which, I have seen a couple of them for this content for the normal run, but even for the dungeon.

In my opinion, I agree that we do not need to be too pushy and start giving out unasked advice, but on the other hand, there is a chat and people can say in chat "hey im new, can we do this blind?" and then I am sure most would be okay to do so.

IMO you are being very aggressive when people are just giving their opinion. Could use a big breath, take a step back and don't treat everyone like they are the spawn of satan because they prefer to do things differently, and expect others at level 90+ to:
- know how the game and its player base works
- SPEAK when they want something

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

They didn't but the point still stands for DF as well, I've just seen it way more in Party Finder. Not everyone wants your help, shut up and let people figure it out themselves if they want instead of spewing explanations immediately.

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If I use Duty Finder to join something I've never done before, I'd appreciate someone giving advice, even if it was right away. Maybe you didn't want help, but how do you know that no one else wanted it? This is honestly the first time I've heard of anyone having a problem with this.

I've had a problem many years ago with someone not explaining a boss battle to me on a dungeon when it first came out. We wiped repeatedly and instead of explaining what to do, they just kicked me without a word. I would rather have help than have that happen again.

really hate when someone's trying to help me and explain how fight works when I have no idea about it.. such a vile behavior smh my head my desk

Personally, a lot of the enjoyment I get from this game is seeing new or remixed mechanics or fights I've never seen before and the spectacle of a boss whipping out some super power move I've never seen before.

The requirement to watch a guide, and spoil the entire fight to join most PF parties for any Extreme or Savage content is a huge turn off. Still though, even when I do make a PF specifically for a blind run, I still occasionally get people who feel the need to explain the entire fight in great detail, even mechanics the party hasn't seen, when no one else has asked for it.
I don't think I would ever block because of it, but I might be annoyed and vote abandon.

If I'm joining the DF for new content though? Its hard to say. I've so far been lucky enough to not experience this but I don't doubt that if it happened to me I would feel like the person explaining mechanics was sapping a lot of the fun away from me, well intentioned or not.

Still, the content isn't even 24 Hours old, and if that is too old to be considered for blind runs, I guess I just genuinely don't understand what others find enjoyable about this game.

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Originally Posted by Lucky_CJ

Personally, a lot of the enjoyment I get from this game is seeing new or remixed mechanics or fights I've never seen before and the spectacle of a boss whipping out some super power move I've never seen before.

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I view this as all well and good - When it's only killing the person in question who wishes to experience the content blind.

When the event in question causes the party to wipe, then we have a different situation in play. Now it is the actions/desires of 1 person directly preventing/blocking 7 other people from progressing because they want to "learn every mechanic" blind.

There's a delicate balancing act at play behind 1 person's desire to do content blind and their fellow party members desire to complete the content. And when weighed in the balance, simply put 7 > 1. It feels to me that if this is your ultimate desire, the better solution is to put together a group of 7 accomodating friends/relations from your FC or even in party finder and form up with the express, written desire for no one to help anyone with mechanics, rather than getting irate at people who enter the encounter using the duty finder with the expectation they will complete the content in a reasonable period of time. I personally won't queue for things when I can't absorb a wipe or two, but expecting me to absorb 5-6 wipes for your own personal edification is a bit much.

It's day 1 content people! GDI!

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Originally Posted by hagare

It's day 1 content people! GDI!

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Meh that excuses causing 1 wipe. Maybe 2. If you've caused a 3rd wipe - at that point I'm assuming you need help and are just too embarrassed to ask for it.

Bookmarking this thread for the next time someone whines about silent mentors.

I rarely see pettier examples of things to get bent over.

If you don't want spoilers, make a group and state that in the listing.

Random dude has every right to put what they want in chat. And so strats get a blacklist?

Let me off this planet LOL...

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Originally Posted by Lucky_CJ

Still, the content isn't even 24 Hours old, and if that is too old to be considered for blind runs, I guess I just genuinely don't understand what others find enjoyable about this game.

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This was after 6 hours, with like 6 new people in the party and a single wipe. The problem is that now anyone who just followed this person will learn nothing about this fight. They won't understand where the tells are coming from or be able to learn anything by example. This person barked orders about one mechanic and then harangued the party if someone missed it, and didn't bother explaining why they dragged everyone to any spot they went to. There's nothing helpful about this sort of attitude. It's someone impatient that only cares about their own run and not whether the rest of the party enjoys it or will retain anything for their next try. And the point you made about PF is exactly right. Even posting something as a blind run isn't going to stop people from doing this.