Please PLEASE make Trusts use AoE

They take ridiculously long. 30 Minutes for a single dungeon just because Y'shtola couldn't be bothered to learn Fire II and Ice II is annoying. Even with the worst of players, they take around 20 minutes at best.

Have you considered that that is intentional? They are supposed to be worse than other players to give people an incentive to play with other players when they want speedy runs.

Best way to use trusts, IMO, is to either take your time experience a dungeon for the first time - soak up the atmosphere and so on - or when you're netflixing/youtubing/otherwise heavily distracted. The longer runs aren't such a drawback then.

Because, otherwise, yes. Speedruns are for player parties.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilisidi

Have you considered that that is intentional? They are supposed to be worse than other players to give people an incentive to play with other players when they want speedy runs.

---

This. They intentionally are designed to take about 30 minutes to complete.

You can test this out.

Do bare minimum DPS (such as join them in their one target attacking of trash mobs) and time the run. Then go in and aim for highest DPS and time your run. You'll find the runs will be about the same time.

The more DPS you do, the less DPS they do and vice versa.

Trusts do use AoE. They just don't spam them like we would. Trusts also have attacks they tend to only use when trash at least have been taking too long. It's why Urianger in ShB will occasionally cast death.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilisidi

Have you considered that that is intentional? They are supposed to be worse than other players to give people an incentive to play with other players when they want speedy runs.

---

Putting hours of development resources into a system that you then intentionally sabotage and make less fun so players don't use it too much is awful design. It's a waste of dev time. It means they know roulette chores and grouping with other players isn't fun, so instead of addressing it they make the alternatives no fun either.

It's also been proven to be no issue in Squadrons, which are very fast if you invest in them.

I just avoid dungeons full stop. If my choice is 30 minute slogs, or dealing with other players, I'll go do a Hunt Train.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Putting hours of development resources into a system that you then intentionally sabotage and make less fun so players don't use it too much is awful design. It's a waste of dev time. It means they know roulette chores and grouping with other players isn't fun, so instead of addressing it they make the alternatives no fun either.

It's also been proven to be no issue in Squadrons, which are very fast if you invest in them.

I just avoid dungeons full stop. If my choice is 30 minute slogs, or dealing with other players, I'll go do a Hunt Train.

---

Because their intention is for the following groups of players:

1. Those who play at odd hours - reduces the time they spend waiting for a group to progress the MSQ
2. Players who want a more immersive experience for the MSQ. The Duty Support members do make plot relevant comments as the dungeon progresses
3. Players who have anxiety about grouping with others for whatever reason.
4. Players who may have to suddenly leave a dungeon for things that they can't predict - such as those with some disabilities whose good periods may suddenly end without much warning.

It is obviously a system that enough players used and enough didn't use as they trialed it in Shadowbringers and not only brought it back for Endwalker content, but are adding it to ARR and to the other expansion packs.

If too many used it and increased the queues for players who wanted to group with others too much, I doubt we would have seen an expanding of the Duty Support to ARR, HW, and SB. You need your early game to hook players in. Spending too long in a queue for progressing story would severely damage that ability. If too few were using it, we likely wouldn't have seen it be used outside of ShB at all.

Squadrons I believe you have to put some actual work into getting them and invest in them. So the reward is their speed. I do hope they do expand on that system so that players can choose to invest in the squadron for faster dungeon runs if they so choose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Putting hours of development resources into a system that you then intentionally sabotage and make less fun so players don't use it too much is awful design. It's a waste of dev time. It means they know roulette chores and grouping with other players isn't fun, so instead of addressing it they make the alternatives no fun either.

---

No it isn't. The entire point of the trust system is for story players. If you want to farm something then queue up with players, otherwise deal with the slower runs with the AI.

This is an MMO, you should be playing multiplayer stuff with other players. I'm already annoyed trusts even exist. If they made them as fast or faster than player ran dungeons then why even bother having the game be an MMO? If you want a pure solo experience then go play a single player game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

This is an MMO, you should be playing multiplayer stuff with other players. I'm already annoyed trusts even exist. If they made them as fast or faster than player ran dungeons then why even bother having the game be an MMO? If you want a pure solo experience then go play a single player game.

---

So... they should just scrap the solo overhaul they're currently implementing? which would then prove the origional point that its an awful design and a waste of dev time lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asuka-Hykiri

So... they should just scrap the solo overhaul they're currently implementing? which would then prove the origional point that its an awful design and a waste of dev time lol

---

There's no solo overhaul, they are just giving solo players an option, which is something I don't really agree with, but whatever. Like I said, if you want to go faster then don't use the trusts. If you don't want to play with other players then stop playing MMO's.

30 minutes is just too long IMO. 25 is a good compromise. I do want them to be slower intentionally than queuing, but 30 is too much. Making them AoE would make it FEEL more tolerable, too, and be good for teaching the new players.

30 minutes is fine.

No its not, it never was.

I just did the lvl 89 dg with Thancred, Estinien and Graha plus me as mch. 25 mins, big pulls all the way.

Honestly it is faster than many DF groups i've seen. Lol

because most players are terrible, I just used trust and AFK'd between pulls rofl was alot more efficient than dealing with moron roulettes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuroka

No its not, it never was.

---

Depending on the group and dungeon it takes around 20 minutes to clear with a party. I can clear a dungeon with trusts in under 30 minutes if I do big pulls. 30 minutes is perfectly fine for a dungeon run with trusts. It does not need to be faster, period, end of story. If you want faster runs, stop being anti social and play with other players. You are playing a multiplayer game afterall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Depending on the group and dungeon it takes around 20 minutes to clear with a party. I can clear a dungeon with trusts in under 30 minutes if I do big pulls. 30 minutes is perfectly fine for a dungeon run with trusts. It does not need to be faster, period, end of story. If you want faster runs, stop being anti social and play with other players. You are playing a multiplayer game afterall.

---

Jokes one you since 5.0 i literally did 10-15 trust runs and that was either for the lore bits or bc it was late. I leveled all my jobs with dungeons, never abused pvp or msq roulett and when i went as a healer or tank i tried to never to premade so i can drag in more ppl in need of said jobs - so pic your "antisocial" and stick it elsewhere <3

Yes it needs to be faster - if i can dps more, heal or tank better, then it should go faster, better play should be rewarded not punished. How the game has this many dps its in need of leveling ways...

If youre asking me id rather remove all trusts and only and special duties for like the Grand company npc squat and just limit that daily or smt...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuroka

...if i can dps more, heal or tank better, then it should go faster, better play should be rewarded not punished.

---

This ^
It would be a perfect way to gently encourage players to improve without needing add-ons or anything complicated.

Long runs would mean the person could do better, but without shaming them or forcing them to change.
If someone just wants the story and doesn't want to work on their combat skills, they can just deal with the penalty, but it could be a useful first indicatior, for newer players especially, that something isn't quite right.

Shorter runs would tell people they're on the right track and reward them at the same time. I can't see what's not to like.

The present implementation actively encourages poor play and not trying. For an MMO, that's a dubious design-choice.

Trust dungeons are like soloing FATEs with your chocobo. They're never going to be as efficient because the devs want to funnel players toward engaging with each other. If solo play is too attractive to too many people, that can end up being bad for the game.

But having said that, I do think trust dungeon completion times should be at least somewhat dependent on player skill. In other words, maybe trust NPCs do a bit less damage when you perform well but not so much less that it makes performing well feel pointless. Or even if not speed, then some other benefit to performing well, like you get one extra chest at the end of the trust dungeon if you beat some DPS threshold for your class. The thing that keeps me from doing trusts beyond my initial run of each MSQ duty is not just the speed but the feeling of pointlessness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Putting hours of development resources into a system that you then intentionally sabotage and make less fun so players don't use it too much is awful design.

---

Making everything soloable 'sabotages' the MMO aspect of it. It's the opposite of awful design in my opinion. More of a nice compromise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Solarra

The present implementation actively encourages poor play and not trying. For an MMO, that's a dubious design-choice.

---

Its just like on pvp where you see tons of players not even try to heal themself with the 0 on self healings or damage barely at 100k...