Explain Sam to me?

I'm learning sam for pve but I also dab a bit in pvp and want get better. To that. I don't get it or what the devs were thinking on Samurai pvp kit.

1. Sam has two (not count lb) cast abilities for a melee job.
I understand some jobs cast but uh... Though are casters and ranges. Sam is M.E.L.E.E.

2. To use LB full power it needs a prerequisite in the form of Hissatsu: Chiten. Our defenses cd. And even if you active Chiten, no one may hit you so LB could be wasted.

3. Mineuchi. The weird damage stun I've seen. Hits like a wet noodle. It's only grace it can damage through guard but again. Hits like a wet noodle

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Zitat von SilverSkyway

I'm learning sam for pve but I also dab a bit in pvp and want get better. To that. I don't get it or what the devs were thinking on Samurai pvp kit.

1. Sam has two (not count lb) cast abilities for a melee job.
I understand some jobs cast but uh... Though are casters and ranges. Sam is M.E.L.E.E.

2. To use LB full power it needs a prerequisite in the form of Hissatsu: Chiten. Our defenses cd. And even if you active Chiten, no one may hit you so LB could be wasted.

3. Mineuchi. The weird damage stun I've seen. Hits like a wet noodle. It's only grace it can damage through guard but again. Hits like a wet noodle

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Do you want me to explain how to play it or why the design is bad ?

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Zitat von SilverSkyway

I'm learning sam for pve but I also dab a bit in pvp and want get better. To that. I don't get it or what the devs were thinking on Samurai pvp kit.

1. Sam has two (not count lb) cast abilities for a melee job.
I understand some jobs cast but uh... Though are casters and ranges. Sam is M.E.L.E.E.

2. To use LB full power it needs a prerequisite in the form of Hissatsu: Chiten. Our defenses cd. And even if you active Chiten, no one may hit you so LB could be wasted.

3. Mineuchi. The weird damage stun I've seen. Hits like a wet noodle. It's only grace it can damage through guard but again. Hits like a wet noodle

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1. The casts are very short, and the AoE combos into another attack. The other one is straight from PvE

2. The LB would be utterly busted if you could use it at full power all the time. The LB isn't wasted if no one attacks you when Chiten is on, just don't use it and be patient.

3. It's not meant to be a high damage attack, it's meant to stun enemies even through guard.

Well like I always said sam strong toolkit is sam greatest weakness. All job has unique setting. Sam just happen be caster melee. (Though I wish dev team could at least change to midare setsugekka to instant with Kaiten from Soten). Since it already lock behind Meikyo shisui and chase with soten is lol cause it change single attack to circle aoe. About Sam LB You don’t have to wait chiten up all the time you can combo with another dps LB like drg,smn,blm,war,rdm,whm,nin or dnc. If you always just wait chiten you will be easy to counter so you need to be tricky all the time.

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Zitat von Vatom

Do you want me to explain how to play it or why the design is bad ?

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I guess both. lol.

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Zitat von Nikoto

1. The casts are very short, and the AoE combos into another attack. The other one is straight from PvE

2. The LB would be utterly busted if you could use it at full power all the time. The LB isn't wasted if no one attacks you when Chiten is on, just don't use it and be patient.

3. It's not meant to be a high damage attack, it's meant to stun enemies even through guard.

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I spam my aoe all the time. I'll agree Sam has one best aoe in pvp.
I just feel Sam lb doesn't do a lot without Chiten.

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Zitat von Sawamura

Well like I always said sam strong toolkit is sam greatest weakness. All job has unique setting. Sam just happen be caster melee. (Though I wish dev team could at least change to midare setsugekka to instant with Kaiten from Soten). Since it already lock behind Meikyo shisui and chase with soten is lol cause it change single attack to circle aoe. About Sam LB You don’t have to wait chiten up all the time you can combo with another dps LB like drg,smn,blm,war,rdm,whm,nin or dnc. If you always just wait chiten you will be easy to counter so you need to be tricky all the time.

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I agree and thank you. Just the few guides for new pvp doesn't saw a lot. Just say what each abilities does. Not the idea and when best to use. To be front I'm mosty doing frontlines as I level my Sam..plus I get event tombstones.
I feel in CC, i'll be as useless as a dancer. (sry dnc)

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Zitat von SilverSkyway

I spam my aoe all the time. I'll agree Sam has one best aoe in pvp.
I just feel Sam lb doesn't do a lot without Chiten.

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You'd be correct in guessing as much, Samurai is very much a surprise gimmick class with very little else to its name, note the toolkit itself is solid, however server tick will be the ultimate judge as to how effective any of that is. More so than the majority of other classes for whom there is a degree of leniency still available.

While it is intended for your LB to do damage regardless of whether empowered by an enemy's debuff (in the case they guard) or not, it's not unusual to see cases where it doesn't seem to do anything at all. Same goes for having to constantly recast your casting moves despite being right next to your opponent, or your AoE strikes missing completely despite the same situation on your screen, as the effective radius of the AoE is actually quite small.

So in a way, you can think of this class as a backup emergency tank when it's nearly at full charge. You don't want to be focus fired too early, as Samurai defense is actually pretty terrible, even with Chiten, generally it's something best done when you're already engaged and people aren't keeping an eye on your buffs, as the grace period between buff, debuff and LB is extremely slim and the source of much frustration to Samurai mains.

As has been suggested before: try to synergize with another DPS or Tank to get the most out of your melee uptime, your moves do decent damage outside of the LB phase but work best when assisting a kill as opposed to straight up DPS, as you may run into the previously mentioned issues when people move around. Also, be sure to take advantage of line of sight to avoid too much focus fire when you're not ready to team kill. Obviously less of an option for Frontline, but I hope that clears up what kind of DPS you're looking at with this kit. It needs some reworking to truly fit what FF14 is actually capable of I think, in a game with less issues over server tick rate, it'd actually be really good. Here, it's largely just average but effective when it does its job.

Unplayable over 120ms ping
Noob trap in FL.
Troll job to piss off people with his LB.

Just wait for buffs or a whole rework.

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Zitat von AnnRam

Unplayable over 120ms ping
Noob trap in FL.
Troll job to piss off people with his LB.

Just wait for buffs or a whole rework.

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As much as I wish they would I don't see them bothering since alot of people still think the LB is OP

As for chiten I don't bother using it with my LB anymore unless everyone is locked on the point
instead I use it to buff my main attacks and give me sustain ogi with a debuff is just as good as your LB if set up right
I use the lb to finish people off or kill 2 people if chiten is needed
only use the buff from mekiyo during any cast cause if you stop moving you are obliterated
setsugekka as a chunk or finisher if I see someone low and not paying attention to me
dash I use to combo not just to gap close since 4k dmg bruh dash 1 dash 2 think in total is like 22k dmg but the sad part about sam is recuperate will stop all your work
very easily if you dont pick you targets well
when I see people clumped up together I try to bind see if anyone waste their purify and while chi ogi on at least 2 or more people if i can hit one person even better
but 8k or 10k aoe is a good aoe follow by another 8k from you dash aoe shoots the team dmg up fast but also brings attention to you either guard or if its only 2 or 3 people then I just try to heal aoe and recuperate (sorry i can't remember the names off the top)

what I would change from the class is a barrel IDK if you want to open

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Zitat von AnnRam

Unplayable over 120ms ping
Noob trap in FL.
Troll job to piss off people with his LB.

Just wait for buffs or a whole rework.

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Lie. I has like 200ms Ping like in NA primal I still make to crystal rank as sam actually Season 2 was alot easy for me to climb as sam maybe during cause i get more use it during season 1 lol! Only different you just need to use Guard/purify or time-travel before you get hit by enemy team in you monitor! However chase was bit extreme hard with Soten during it change to circle aoe lol.

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Zitat von Sawamura

Lie. I has like 200ms Ping like in NA primal I still make to crystal rank as sam actually Season 2 was alot easy for me to climb as sam maybe during cause i get more use it during season 1 lol! Only different you just need to use Guard/purify or time-travel before you get hit by enemy team in you monitor! However chase was bit extreme hard with Soten during it change to circle aoe lol.

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I was talking about SAM in FL which it's actually the pvp mode that most people play and I swear to god that I never see a SAM with high BH because his kit isn't mean to be played in groups and against 1vs1 situation ( that isn't a duel) you just ignore them because is so obvious when they dive with chiten up.

Personally I have better results as current MCH (10/0 kills / 1.5mm damage per match in frontlines (any mode) that trying to play a caster melee I certainly love when people don't get hit by the burst phase because medium latency + server tick rate or they don't get bind.

I'm not play Sam because it op or anything. It's a jo i'm learning in pve though i'm a bit mainoholic. (Only play alts to mostly try replace main). lol. Sam great at 1v1 other sams... lol. And stopping others from caping points. While the LB can 1hko, it's niche. I might 1hko maybe one out of ten times I use it. Feel good when it does but even in large groups, no one may even hit me.

To the 2nd point. I do wonders on a bard. FL and CC (non ranked). I get those scores too. While bard has some fault, its good. Plus I like the archer feel. It just, I like melee. Been trying to get better. Still hate positionals but they not as bad as I thought.
Of the three melee i'v played in pvp (War, Drg and Sam), I found War the best followed by Drg.While I find Sam more tanky then Drg. Drg feel I do more and they have a better LB. War just a beast..

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Zitat von SilverSkyway

2. To use LB full power it needs a prerequisite in the form of Hissatsu: Chiten. Our defenses cd. And even if you active Chiten, no one may hit you so LB could be wasted

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You dont have to LB after every chiten. Watch for the debuff applicationa