I really do believe this is the Final Fantasy with the best written antagonists

Depending who you liked the most, but personally Emet Selch. I was watching a video by Stout Helm concerning him, and definitely agree this is Square Enix's best made antagonist so far.

Heck HW's antagonist or antagonists is almost kind of equal to it in my opinion.

Now I guess it is fair to say that this is a more modern FF game compared to the classics, and if were remade today things would be quite different (a more fleshed out Ultimecia would be interesting). It would be like comparing apples to oranges maybe?

Gets me excited what FF XVI is going to be like.

Given the state of the gaming industry I'm generally apprehensive about ANY new game coming out.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

Given the state of the gaming industry I'm generally apprehensive about ANY new game coming out.

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You're not wrong, I don't like what I'm seeing either.

It has gotten pretty bad lately with a lot of video game companies.

To be honest, for the past few days I have been thinking Ilberd and Yotsuyu are some of the best Antagonists for me. Ilberd betrayed everyone, led people to a massacre to sacrifice them to become a primal, and more. His motivation was very scary and real to me, Yotsuyu as well.

I thought that the FF12 antagonists were the most interesting. You had Vayne, who is trying to protect his country from the advances of the rival superpower, and is trying to set the board so that his younger brother can become the seemingly good wise king beloved by all by first removing obstacles such as the senate and taking on the infamy himself. You had Gabranth, a disillusioned man who fought for his country and saw it fall and now clings to the empire that conquered his homeland. Dr. Cid was very hammy and entertaining.

I find most of FF14's villains to be meh. 2.0 Gaius was whatever. Teledji was whatever. Loloritto felt cunning and threatening but sadly Heavensward immediately walked back that storyline. Nidhogg war rawr dragon. *snore*. Yet another evil pope... *snore*. Illberd was okay. Fordola was okay (the Ala Mhigan collaborators really should have been explored more). 4.0 Zenos was okay, was really undermined by not being allowed to kill any of the heroes and spending most of the story lounging around. Yotsuyuu was whatever (at this point I started becoming irritated with FF14's sob story villains). Emet-Selch was good enough, but I don't think he is the bestest villain ever like FF14 fanbois make him out to be. Varis had potential but was axed. 5.3 Elidibus was actually pretty good, being the last survivor going down fighting tooth and nail for his people. ShB Fandaniel was hammy and entertaining but then Endwalker botched him. Meteion was whatever. Venat was frustratingly written. Zenos was brought back from the dead to... loung around on a chair doing nothing for the entirety of ShB, and then did nothing for the entirety of EW up until the last 5 minutes, and then die again. What?

Mr. "burn out the bad" guy from the Weapon storyline was the most enjoyable FF14 villain, IMO. He was hammy and felt threatening enough and I felt invested in defeating him.

EDIT: I forgot the Warriors of Darkness from the late HW patches. They were good antagonists. They felt threatening enough and were sympathetic, and they felt like they had camaraderie. Shame they didn't have more screentime.

I'd say they're definately some of the best FF villains we've had, up until endwalker at least. I think depth is the thing that separates XIV villains to others. Which is why I think a lot of people were dismayed from the move from the Ancient/Ascian plotline, to the Asahi Skin Suit/Xanax Zenos stuff which was a lot more straight forward in its execution.

I believe in Vayne Solidor superiority.

I liked Emet Selch but he is not my favorite villain I consider that he was an enemy from the beginning to the end
I think his popularity comes from the fact that he is very attractive to women who quickly forgive him all the crimes he committed
No the villain I like the most is a villain who was totally destroyed without him being able to shine, I'm talking about Varis who was an interesting character who had a ridiculous death I really wanted to believe that it was a clone of Varis who died but it seems I was wrong which is really disappointing

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

I believe in Vayne Solidor superiority.

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Likewise.

Antagonists and villains that actually partially or wholly succeed at their goals are the ones who are well written. FFXIV likes to give its bad guys compelling backstories but it ends up leading to little beyond a cool fight and sad music playing as they lose absolutely everything they care about. To me, that's pretty boring - it's telling that Nabriales and Lahabrea were the only Ascians to score on screen kills that left a lasting impression but the vastly more powerful Elidibus and Emet-Selch weren't allowed to do the same.

I'd say Ilberd is probably this game's best written villain for that reason - he had compelling, sympathetic motives and although that didn't excuse what he did he actually got what he wanted by forcing the hand of the protagonists. That puts him closer to the likes of Kefka, Vayne and Caius.

As much as I like Emet-Selch and Varis as characters, Elidibus is my favourite antagonist in this game and possibly across the FF franchise. A tragic hero to his people, who witnessed their senseless fragmentation and destruction, and subjected himself to the gradual erasure of his own identity to enable him to have the resolve to carry through his bloody task, and who still put his duty above personal grudges in order to safeguard the star's future. I also love the design of his glyph.

Yeah, I've always liked Zenos. That's a controversial opinion though.

Emet-Selch, Varis, Nidhogg, and Nael (technically primal Bahamut) all work excellently as villains for different reasons. Endwalker failed in that aspect because they fell flat on their face trying to be "Shadowbringers 2: Electric Boogaloo".

The other games in the series have their own share of well written antagonists though. Kuja, Kefka, Jenova (no, not Sephiroth himself), Vayne are all just as good.

And I disagree on the take about the genre. As always it just comes across to me as the typical FF fan that doesn't bother stepping out of their SE bubble to notice all the things other jrpgs do better these days even though their visual style clings to mediocrity by comparison. But then again visual eye candy is modern FF's bread and butter.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Emet-Selch, Varis, Nidhogg, and Nael (technically primal Bahamut) all work excellently as villains for different reasons. Endwalker failed in that aspect because they fell flat on their face trying to be "Shadowbringers 2: Electric Boogaloo".

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If I had a say they should have at least had one member of the scions have a canon death.
This death could have been something that affected the group so much so that we see each individual scion begin to change for the better or for the worse which would in turn spur on a true focus on character arcs/developments for each of the scion.

In short, we need conflict even amongst this group of immortal benevolence.
It's needs that depth of change.

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Originally Posted by Elucesta

To be honest, for the past few days I have been thinking Ilberd and Yotsuyu are some of the best Antagonists for me. Ilberd betrayed everyone, led people to a massacre to sacrifice them to become a primal, and more. His motivation was very scary and real to me, Yotsuyu as well.

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People keep saying Ilberd is a pretty good villain and the more I think about it, the more it's true. He played the WoL and the scions like a fiddle, his plan did play out like he wanted, and he even got a dungeon for himself! I would even say he is more hateable than Zenos "YAWN" Galvus considering how cocky he was, but considering how it played out he kind of deserved to be cocky since the WoL and Scions were sloppy.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, I've always liked Zenos. That's a controversial opinion though.

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i like zenos as well but i know he's lacking
although we get a dungeon for him like we did ilberd, we're still missing so much on the 'what' has made him become who he is which would naturally lead into the 'why' he does the things he does and is the way he is. His actions to me are intriguing which is why i like him but he's missing so much of the what and why depth. Like what has happened to him that made him seek so desperately a friend in us ? Because I'm no longer buying that he wants a 'challenge'.

just like the wol, it's hard to simply say "he's just bad for badness' sake".
it's the same reason why wol is sorta a deadpan concept because we're good for goodness' sake.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

i like zenos as well but i know he's lacking
although we get a dungeon for him like we did ilberd, we're still missing so much on the 'what' has made him become who he is which would naturally lead into the 'why' he does the things he does and is the way he is. His actions to me are intriguing which is why i like him but he's missing so much of the what and why depth. Like what has happened to him that made him seek so desperately a friend in us ? Because I'm no longer buying that he wants a 'challenge'.

just like the wol, it's hard to simply say "he's just bad for badness' sake".
it's the same reason why wol is sorta a deadpan concept because we're good for goodness' sake.

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I think it's good to have a villain every now and then without a sympathetic backstory; being "misunderstood", etc. I liked him. He explained very clearly why he did the things he did. Multiple times. The WoL at the very end can finally admit to him that they also do what they do because like the thrill to it, which I thought was cute. I very much liked our final bout with Zenos. It was one of my favorite parts of the entire expansion, and I think I even said it at the time, I had a smile on my face the entire time.

I still think FF11 has better to offer for stories and enemies than FF14 where it almost always goes down the same status quo every expansion.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, I've always liked Zenos. That's a controversial opinion though.

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I liked Zenos until they brought him back from the dead. Not for that reason specifically, but everything he did(or didn't do) afterwards was kind of "um...okay?"

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Originally Posted by znushu

I still think FF11 has better to offer for stories and enemies than FF14 where it almost always goes down the same status quo every expansion.

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It is an evidence ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the nostalgia of my youth to lose myself in the streets of Bastok time is really fast when you have fun...

I think XIV has some really great antagonists. I also like Vayne and Caius on the sympathetic villain side. Caius really got a raw deal.

My favorite in the series is Kefka. Technically, he does have a sympathetic background, too. He was experimented on and driven insane by it. He comes to want to destroy existence due to that insanity. I've always thought there was an undercurrent that he didn't become like that, but he was already at least partly like that. Or at least made the choice to revel in it and embrace it. Especially since we have Celes who was experimented on as well but went a different route. Granted, they could have perfected it by then since Kefka was the first, but it's always a distinction that stuck in my mind.

Either way, the game doesn't focus on what happened to him much or try to excuse his actions. He's just a bad guy doing bad things because he wants to.

I can't stand Emet-Selch but I absolutely love Zenos.

I like the King Solus. He is kind and tries hard for the Ascian friend. He is mean only to defeat the enemy.