I will preface this with the fact I have 9 retainers, that means I am paying for an additional 7 retainers each month. I have also made an incredible fortune off retainer quick ventures even though I have yet to complete ShB, through dyes and various tradable gear/glam/furniture I have managed to sell on the MB for no effort and a lot of money over the last several months. I even made server first in April for the amount of grand company seals that I had earnt still not having completed SB just because my retainer quick ventures.
But as a crafter, I have seen that retainers have replaced crafting on hundreds of items across the market. From Furniture to the Tradable armours to Glamour, retainer quick ventures have made hundreds if not thousands of items worthless to craft and have disrupted market forces creating a massive oversupply in many areas. Take South Seas armchairs as an example which I checked on my server yesterday. 20/22 items were from retainer quick ventures. (not crafted by a player) which means it's entirely pointless for a crafter to craft any south seas armchairs as there is an oversupply that isn't mitigated by the lack of demand. It only results in a downward spiral of the price until people buy them up just to desynth for materials as is the case for many markets.
For those that craft, it means fewer and fewer markets they can realistically craft in, namely those that aren't targeted by retainer quick ventures. But this has a knock on affect to the materials market too making gathering many items redundant.
When it comes to treasure maps, only the current content is really economically viable for players, older content is often completely economically unviable since the overabundance of glamours that no one wants anymore from the quick ventures.
It completely devalues multiple gameplay loops (crafting, treasure maps, gathering) and ruins the whole point of this game being an MMORPG when one of it's fundamental pillars (economy) is undermined by a a largely pay to win mechanic essentially.
In short, Quick ventures ruin the game's economy and need completely restructuring to just give dungeon only gear and dyes)
Retainer Quick Ventures destroying the Economy
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07-17-2022, 11:50 PMElevinRetainer Quick Ventures destroying the Economy
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07-18-2022, 06:06 AMDrWho2010
this is intentional. there is a history in this game of devaluing items over time so that the "regulars" can buy things they want.
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07-18-2022, 09:16 AMJojoya
I'm still making gil so I have no complaints.
Someone good at making gil from the marketboard knows how to adapt to changes in the market.
If what you're making is suddenly showing up in quick ventures, switch to different items. A couple of hundred items coming through quick ventures is not a problem when there are tens of thousands of items that you can craft. Quick venture loot tables are changed every major patch and it's rare for a crafted item to remain on the loot table more than 2 consecutive patches. Eventually most of those items will be worth crafting again, even if that time is not now. -
07-18-2022, 11:12 AMSilverbaneI was making gil from crafting, but it soon became clear that my time was better spent sending the 17 max-level retainers I have (soon to be 27, and at least 36 by the release of 6.2) out on various ventures (ovibos milk, palm syrup, various ores, some logs, and of course quick ventures). It's no more boring that cranking out mass quantities of a crafting item, but more profitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
The only crafting a regularly do now, other than gear for my not-yet-90 alt characters and classes, is Tsai tou Vounou, for the guaranteed 430K gil or so per week each level 88+ Culinarian can make from that in less than half an hour.
Outside of Tsai tou Vounoe, my next major crafting will probably be Classical combat and Pactmaker gathering gear for my retainers as they make 90. Long term, it's a justified investment. -
07-18-2022, 11:30 AMICountFrom0Translation:Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbane
It's easier to pay to win.
Reply:
Duh. That's the intent. -
07-18-2022, 11:48 AMSilverbaneAnyone paying a regular subscription can have 16 retainers per world without spending an additional dime.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICountFrom0
In North America, that's 128 retainers per data center for just the standard subscription fee.
You didn't realize that, did you? -
07-18-2022, 12:32 PMBad_Luck
So you're saying that the sky is falling? Oh no.
...
Anyway... -
07-18-2022, 08:56 PMToutatis
Some items devalue especially in the weeks after release and that’s normal as the supply increases but many are stable and it’s easy to make gils. There are plenty of things to sell. As for old maps, some are worth it. I have 5 retainers and that is plenty for me. I don’t see the use for more and I wouldn’t want to manage all that as I wouldn’t have time to play the game.
That being said, I feel like retainers are bringing back way too many decos. This week was the last big lottery and after people have finished building their houses the need for those items, particularly outdoor decorations, will decline heavily. -
07-18-2022, 09:21 PMgeorge357quick ventures
everyone is trying to get their own advange in crafting and hope that by using the squeaky wheel they will get what they want well don't hold your breath waiting for programmers to jump.
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07-18-2022, 10:50 PMReynTime
Don't worry guys. SE is making sure crafters don't feel useless... by bringing back the option to repair other people's gear, WOO!!!!
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07-19-2022, 03:33 AMKes13atrust me, I am looking forward to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReynTime
with some people apparently unwilling to repair, this will solve the "dont rez me, my gear is at zero" people who dont want to actually do anything in upper level dungeons and raids. -
07-21-2022, 05:40 PMPrrringles
To be fair, the economy was already destroyed with the launch of SB (Stormblood). Crafters could make serious fortune during HW but after that it all went south fast because everyone and their aunt could get max lvl crafters pretty fast. Mandatory overmelds for HQ crafts became useless after Stormblood too. Crafting is just a gimmick now. Gathering is even more useless since the raw materials are dirt cheap because of bots.
Mounts are being farmed in eureka/potd/hoh by bots. Faux mounts became worthless too because of the increase of ultimate fights being able to be farmed. Then there are indeed Quick Ventures ruining other parts of the market. Treasure map bots ruin the glamour market too. Market board bots ruin the ability for normal players to compete. etc. etc. etc.
They days of making big bucks the honest way are long gone. Trying to sell items these days is just frustrating. No one has got time to sell items for a measly 10% mark-up unless you are really desperate. Anyone telling you "they are making easy gil just fine" is probably lying. Virtually nothing worth selling is left untouched by bots or otherwise lazy/greedy players.
They only way left to make real bank these days is by farming platimun coins through fc voyages which requires a lot of shenanigans if done solo. -
07-22-2022, 11:52 AMLiam_Harper
You can't destroy what's already dead.
Retainers bringing back current expansion furniture and items is a joke and terrible design, but no one really cares. Crafting is long dead and just a gimmick to keep bot users subbed or act as a cheap vendor for Savage entry gear. There is no real economy left to ruin and new players are oblivious because a few million is considered big money now, so it feels like they're raking in cash even when their items only sell for tiny profits.
Even I don't really care anymore tbh. They could delete crafting tomorrow or remove all the toolkit and make crafting a single button press and I wouldn't even feel sad. -
07-29-2022, 11:12 PMIllmaeran
I agree with you OP, quick ventures have had a detrimental effect on the overall economy. I also agree with people like Jojoya, who say it's still possible to make good money if you're willing to put in the time to seek out niche markets [or be prepared to take advantage of short-term demand]. I've been an omnicrafter/gatherer since ARR and have never been one to get into the market heavily, though I've gotten lucky a couple times and was able to rake in decent money early in some expansion cycles.
At this point I've relegated the MB to being a clearinghouse for random crap my retainers bring in and the occasional crafted item when I see the potential for immediate demand, such as mortar and granite when lotteries end. It's low effort and low, but steady income. These days, the main value of being able to gather and craft is in saving, rather than making, money; especially on things like glams. The more self-sufficient I can be, the less I have to spend on things I can't get on my own. -
07-30-2022, 09:24 AMAneshda
SE could remove a few Items from the Quick Venture list and everything would be fine. Like:
- Blue Gear / Weapons
- Furniture
- House Deko
Retainers could still bring green Gear, Weapons, Materials, Dyes, Minions, Glamour Stuff. -
07-30-2022, 09:40 AMDPZ2What if I want that blue gear for Glamour?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneshda
Face it. Everything would not "be fine" for anyone except crafters who want a market that provides millions of gil rather than tens or hundreds of thousands of gil. I remember the price of top-iLevel gear back in Stormblood, heck, I even lent another player the funds to pay for a complete set of crafted gear ... to the tune of 9 million gil for the left side. Poor, poor crafters can no longer charge 9 million gil, so we should punish folks with retainers by no longer providing a small chance that they might fetch substitutes.
What do you think people do with Blue Gear? They use it or disenchant it or turn it in for GC seals. The number of players who use it is minimal, as not every player levels all jobs to max level.
As for furniture and house decorations ... that ship sailed years ago, during the height of price-gouging by a number of crafters. When the price of a carbuncle lamp is in the millions of gil, you know something was wrong.
The Economy is still going strong. It still costs close to 700,000 gil to put HQ gear on each of the left side slots, and I've noticed that price to be semi-constant across almost all levels after HW. Sure, you can occasionally find a piece of gear for 20,000 gil if you're lucky, but the next step up is generally 100,000+ gil. -
07-30-2022, 11:56 AMAneshdaIf you want that Blue Gear for Glamour, why not buy it with Tokens? And right now you can get a full HQ Gear for less then 300.000 Gil.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPZ2
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07-30-2022, 01:10 PMIscahBlue gear (with the exception of the neglected Darklight set, which I don't think is in the quick venture table) is purchasable with currency at any time you want it, and you can pick the exact piece you want, so getting random pieces from retainers feels like a wasted turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPZ2
Green gear, on the other hand, includes a chance at getting the RNG-dependant dungeon pieces, so I would be quite happy for my retainers to only be able to find green gear and not blue. -
08-02-2022, 05:05 AMBrightamethystYou have it backwards. Older maps aren't non-viable because of venture rewards. Rather, venture rewards exist because old maps are non-viable. Maps are a limited resource and the devs don't want people feeling like they have to "waste" map allowances on 50/60/70/80 maps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevin
It's okay for content to have a shelf life. Yeah, Bozja (Zadnor?) lockboxes tanked Seeing Horde prices, but was anyone really having fun doing Nidhogg scale farms? It's okay to let old content go and move on.