Duty Support And Trust are Literally the same system

Trust requires you to level them, Duty support goes right up to the last dungeon in EW currently, can someone explain why we have two identical systems? Do they keep trusts because of the title you can get if you level them all? Is the community that salty that if they removed one of the systems that are the SAME they would complain? They talk about resources this and resources that but we have this bullshit going on lol

Duty support is for doing the story. Trusts allows you to take people you normally don't have access to during the story and leveling them also unlocks alternate glamor for our trust friends.

I'd rather see them getting resources than other stuff I care less about.

Figure the two will eventually merge once the systems catch up to eachother.

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Originally Posted by LadyAveria

Trust requires you to level them, Duty support goes right up to the last dungeon in EW currently, can someone explain why we have two identical systems?

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You just answered your own question and stated why they are not identical.

Trusts require levelling; duty support does not. You can get duty support for the level 90 dungeon while your trusts are still at level 71 and can only access Holminster.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You just answered your own question and stated why they are not identical.

Trusts require levelling; duty support does not. You can get duty support for the level 90 dungeon while your trusts are still at level 71 and can only access Holminster.

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So why have trusts if you can just do all the dungeons anyway with duty support? Oh? You can put them in different clothes, wow! That deserves a whole system that is the same experience.

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Originally Posted by Ilisidi

Duty support is for doing the story. Trusts allows you to take people you normally don't have access to during the story and leveling them also unlocks alternate glamor for our trust friends.

I'd rather see them getting resources than other stuff I care less about.

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But you have access to everyone >.> you can choose who to take in like trusts but you don't have to level them! IN FACT in Duty support you even get neat one off NPCs in some dungeons.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Figure the two will eventually merge once the systems catch up to eachother.

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Yeah that's what I think will happen eventaully, when I get my headwear for my bun XD

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Originally Posted by LadyAveria

So why have trusts if you can just do all the dungeons anyway with duty support? Oh? You can put them in different clothes, wow! That deserves a whole system that is the same experience.

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So? What do you get from Beast Tribes? What do you get with PVP rewards? What with MGP? Not everyone cares about what you get. What are you even suggesting? Should it be required to level trusts to beat the story?

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Figure the two will eventually merge once the systems catch up to eachother.

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I don't think so. They were both called trusts before.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Figure the two will eventually merge once the systems catch up to eachother.

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I don't think so since they are two separate things. If they merged them, players would have to take the time to grind up their supports from Shadowbringers to use them in MSQ later on which would just be a pain in the ass.

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Originally Posted by LadyAveria

So why have trusts if you can just do all the dungeons anyway with duty support? Oh? You can put them in different clothes, wow! That deserves a whole system that is the same experience.

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It's one-and-a-half systems that was originally presented as one system but has now been spread across two. Splitting them apart entirely was the right choice, because trusts just got in the way of being able to use (what is now) duty support post-credits – even though you were allowed to use it to replay dungeons before clearing the 5.0 credits, afterwards you were locked into levelling all your trusts if you wanted to re-run any dungeon with NPC party members ever again.

Trusts are cut off and reduced to optional busywork now, so if you don't care about the minimal rewards (which mostly only benefit further use of the trust system) then you just don't touch them.

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Originally Posted by LadyAveria

But you have access to everyone >.> you can choose who to take in like trusts but you don't have to level them! IN FACT in Duty support you even get neat one off NPCs in some dungeons.

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You don't get access to "everyone" with duty support, only the characters who were with you at that point in the story. You can take the Exarch into Holminster but you can't take Thancred.

Trusts give you the fixed roster of avatars who can go into dungeons where the "real" character was not present, which occasionally yields extra dialogue or character behaviour you couldn't see otherwise, but you can't take the special guests.

I find the replies in this thread to be truly lacking.

I looked this up just now because I was asking "what the hell is the useless Trust system for? It's Duty Support with extra steps."

Initially I figured that once you leveled up your Trusts more, then you could run them through content unsynced, so I could farm some glams or cards faster than pure solo unsynced. But no, they get synced.

So... you can choose who goes? Who cares? That doesn't functionally change anything. The entire trust system could be deleted and its miniscule "feature" list added to the Duty Support system, or thrown in the trash. Why clutter up this already menu-overloaded game with two identical systems except one is a noob trap that's just a bunch of work for basically nothing?

The devs should be trimming fat, not adding it.

If you absolutely HAVE to have it for the people who are so deluded they consider it actual content, have it be a sub-tab of Duty Support. Don't give it a dedicate menu option. Good lord, show this to anyone who doesn't already know what it is and how it works, then explain how it is presented in-game and how it functions, and enjoy their derisive laughter.

"So yeah, you use both to go through dungeons without other players, but in this one, you can choose who to go with! Well, no, you can't make unusual party compositions, so it functionally plays near identically except Alisaie likes to steal the LB. Okay yeah, you have to run like a million dungeons to level them up to even get them into the content while in the other one they're already leveled and ready to go. Well, no, you don't level ALL of them at once, just the ones in the party. Why are you laughing? This is important! I can take characters who weren't canonically there! Hey! Come back!"

They could expand on the trust system and add more available NPC avatars instead of just the scions + Ryne, characters they've already used in duty support. The whole game will be duty support available by 7.0, so might as well do something cool with the trust system, and give out new titles for leveling a character or a group of characters to max level.

Just from Endwalker they could add Hythlodaeus, Emet-Selch, Venat, Varshahn and Zero.
From Heavensward they could add Haurchefant, Ysayle, Aymeric and Papallymo.
From Stormblood we'll most likely get Hien, Lyse, Gosestsu, Yugiri and Arenvald.

I wish they'd expand the GC squadrons instead of doing trusts. I mean, yeah, makes sense that you can't bring your squad with you to the First, but... I dunno. Playing pokemon with your squad and leveling them up is neat, and they desperately need to involve Grand Company activities more. Could do a lot of cool stuff with that system, but instead they're just gonna abandon it...

I feel like they have a lot of redundancy with Trusts, Duty Support and GC Squadron. I did level Trusts because I felt like it and felt there would be some value to doing it. Personally, I was disappointed. The only real difference I saw is that Duty Support gives you NPCs that are at the minimum level for that dungeon (for example 81 for Tower of Zot) whereas Trusts (if you level them ) are level 82. Considering that the NPCs only single target, that extra level really doesn't matter. I tracked the time it takes to clear dungeons with these NPCs. The extra level helps, but not by much.

Personally, I think Duty Support should be "lower intelligence" NPCs and these "heroes" in Trusts should play at a higher level. They should use AOEs, but maybe treat it like they are minimum iLvl for the dungeon so you aren't nearly as fast as group in DF.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I feel like they have a lot of redundancy with Trusts, Duty Support and GC Squadron. I did level Trusts because I felt like it and felt there would be some value to doing it. Personally, I was disappointed. The only real difference I saw is that Duty Support gives you NPCs that are at the minimum level for that dungeon (for example 81 for Tower of Zot) whereas Trusts (if you level them ) are level 82. Considering that the NPCs only single target, that extra level really doesn't matter. I tracked the time it takes to clear dungeons with these NPCs. The extra level helps, but not by much.

Personally, I think Duty Support should be "lower intelligence" NPCs and these "heroes" in Trusts should play at a higher level. They should use AOEs, but maybe treat it like they are minimum iLvl for the dungeon so you aren't nearly as fast as group in DF.

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Trusts could be a whole ass game system as additional side content. Do quests or complete meta-achievements to unlock this NPC as being available for your Trusts. Level up your Trusts, get access to stances or other things that alter their stats and/or how they play (maybe there's a stance that makes them greed frequently, so the healer will need to compensate), maybe even unlock the option to Barbie doll them. Gives you that Collect Em All angle, and if you invested a lot of effort into grinding them up, maybe it would be an alternative to grinding dungeons through Duty Finder (still wouldn't get the daily roulette bonus though.)

Huh. Sounds a little like something else in the game, don't it?

Duty Support: Using story-related characters to go through story-related dungeons. They cannot level and are often restricted depending on the story progression.

Trust: Using avatars of your companions to go through story related dungeons. They are able to gain levels and, once hitting their max level for the associated expansion, can be glamoured into a different outfit. Leveling all of them also yields an achievement, and usually a title, too.

There's a clear difference. Yes, Trusts are effectively Duty Support in the barest sense, but there's more to them than just Duty Support allows.

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Originally Posted by Rollout

Duty Support: Using story-related characters to go through story-related dungeons. They cannot level and are often restricted depending on the story progression.

Trust: Using avatars of your companions to go through story related dungeons. They are able to gain levels and, once hitting their max level for the associated expansion, can be glamoured into a different outfit. Leveling all of them also yields an achievement, and usually a title, too.

There's a clear difference. Yes, Trusts are effectively Duty Support in the barest sense, but there's more to them than just Duty Support allows.

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Short version: Trusts and GC Squadrons are older systems that Duty Support stole the thunder of, in some ways.

But, they have not removed them, nor announced, at this time, plans of removing them, either. I would suspect nothing will be removed or merged until the rest of Heavensward (6.3x??) and Stormblood have Duty Support up and working. *Then* someone may want to change some things around. Then, again, they may just leave it as is, and not remove someone's maxed-out leveled Trust pieces. I mean, if you don't like Trust...ignore it, and use the Duty Support instead.

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Originally Posted by Rollout

There's a clear difference. Yes, Trusts are effectively Duty Support in the barest sense, but there's more to them than just Duty Support allows.

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True, but the difference is very minor. I feel like Squadrons offered more than Trust. Considering that these are the Scions of the Seventh Dawn and supposed to be great heroes... why aren't they better than Eager Thaumaturge or Scion Marauder?

If I recall, it took something like 54 runs to level my trust to 90 - what was the point? Just to glamour them and get a title? I guess that's par for the course and all. But it really only showed me that the rest of the Scions are no better than some random NPC that helps out in FATEs.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Figure the two will eventually merge once the systems catch up to eachother.

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They kind of did.

The "first run" part of trusts, where you can do a preset scenario has already merged.

The thing that seperates trusts from support is that you have to level the trusts. Making TRUSTS a continuation of ... Grand Company Squadron Command Missions.

Duty Support, Trust, and Squadrons should all be rolled into one system with one menu IMHO.

• Duty Support as generic filler NPCs with no special perks. They're available for dungeons where no story relevant options are around.
• Trusts as story relevant options. Level them up to unlock glams for them and titles for yourself, plus the ability to use them anywhere if for some reason you really want to run Sastasha with G'raha or whatever.
• Squadron is pretty much the same as Duty Support, but you can recruit particular ones, level them, dress them up, etc. Duty Support but you can customize them basically.

Basically, I feel there is room for all three types of "NPCs that run dungeons with you," but they don't need to be spread out all over the place.

Sounds good, Maybe when they finish the grand company content, adding those other dungeons hard modes to go with it and return to 2 dungeons per patch set to accomedate it...

(aka, never, sadly).

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Originally Posted by dspguy

True, but the difference is very minor. I feel like Squadrons offered more than Trust. Considering that these are the Scions of the Seventh Dawn and supposed to be great heroes... why aren't they better than Eager Thaumaturge or Scion Marauder?

If I recall, it took something like 54 runs to level my trust to 90 - what was the point? Just to glamour them and get a title? I guess that's par for the course and all. But it really only showed me that the rest of the Scions are no better than some random NPC that helps out in FATEs.

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They are. The point of Duty Support is that they're not always there, hence why we have many nameless Scions and Grand Company members, as well as various other NPCs, to help us out when they aren't available. It would require them to greatly change the story of some areas it was the named Scions helping you, especially throughout ARR.

And that's just Gameplay and Story Segregation. They can't just make the Scions overpowered compared to the nameless NPCs, or underpower the latter to make the Scions feel moreso. That would be unbalanced both from a progression standpoint of the dungeons and for the ability to run the dungeons for loot.

All I can say is grinding out dungeons by myself just to get them up another 10 levels again starting with only the first dungeon over and over again is really tedious and something I'm not looking forward to, but dread that I will do anyway out of boredom and a goal to pursue. But at least I can use them to level up desynthesis faster...

It's odd that you would even need to level them since you can take any of them with you the first run of the dungeon, point blank, no conditions. Aren't they all level ??? anyway?

I also hoped that Duty Support would at least have had named characters, not stock generic nameless ones with even less identity than squadron NPCs. This was the perfect opportunity for Hoary Boulder to shine, no?

Trusts give you that technical real-world lore progression feeling that the scions are slowly leveling up with you thru repetition which is part of mmo gameplay. Duty support is strictly there for when the mmo does and you at least will have no problems queuing dungeons immediately.