Before, I never paid the party list any attention, but when I went into a trust to practice my shiny new scholar, I found it difficult to make out the party members' very small / short health bars in the midst of all the full width cast bars.
For healing, I'd rather have the health bars be the longest and largest, and the cast bars reduced or even removed (optional).
Party list bars need to be flipped.
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06-27-2022, 06:37 AMSamSmootParty list bars need to be flipped.
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06-27-2022, 06:51 AMJeeqbit
You get used to it.
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06-27-2022, 07:09 AMAbsurdityThat can be said for literally anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
- Incredibly limited inventory and bank space without giving SE more money? You get used to it.
- Being unable to more clearly see the buffs of your party members? You get used to it.
- Having to go through the retainer dialogue and menu every time you want to sell something on the marketboard, potentially multiple times? You get used to it.
- Being unable to access part if your inventory (the saddlebag) in instanced content? You get used to it.
- Part of the Duty Finder settings resetting every time you log out? You get used to it.
I can get used to playing this game on a Guitar Hero drum, wouldn't make the control method any less terrible.
The question is should you have to just get used to clunky design?
Considering that SE already said they plan to add more UI customization I think the answer in this case is no. -
06-27-2022, 07:23 AMKes13ano need to be snarky about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
playing with a "trust" is pretty recent and usually a personal choice of some so they do not have to play with, or wait for others.
I guess one of the things we also get "used to" are rude people on the forums ^^ -
06-27-2022, 07:53 AMVyrerus
You can adjust their size in the HUD
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06-27-2022, 08:06 AMSamSmootUnfortunately, it still keeps the relative bar sizes. The health bars are the most important, and should be the most obvious. I don't see any reason for the cast bars to ge there at all. In place of them, put debuffs in each party list frame so you can see who has what instantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
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06-27-2022, 08:10 AMAbsurdityYou can bet I'm gonna be snarky about a non-answer like "You get used to it", it's almost on the same level as "Just play a different game" when it comes to people talking about design issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kes13a
And the Trust/Duty Support party frame is exactly the same as the normal party frame so that is completely irrelevant. -
06-27-2022, 08:15 AMAngelCheese77
Hm I don’t think I’ve noticed the issue you stated. What size screen you play on?
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06-27-2022, 08:34 AMAbsurdityI personally don't have an issue with it either, after all these years I did actually just get used to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCheese77
But I can see what the OP means, the health bar is the same length and height as the MP bar and not even half as long as the cast bar. It is overall rather small compared to other games which make the health bar thicker than everything else on purpose to draw your attention to it.
Also a slight correction, Trusts do make a minor difference compared to normal players because Y'shtola for example has such ridiculously long spell names that they partially cover her health. -
06-27-2022, 10:03 AMShibi
I am always for more customisation of the HUD. And yes, while you get used to it for sure, it would still be nice to be able to do a lot more with it.
One advantage FFXIV has over other MMOs for me is that players can survive with much lower HPs. While in others you really had to watch HP like a hawk, in FFXIV you can let people get down to 20% quite happily and they can still be kept up. That extra headroom makes the party frame less important - to me. Often times for me the HP bar over a players head is enough, with the rarer glances to the side. -
06-27-2022, 12:13 PMJeeqbitYes, but my point is that it's not an issue in the first place. It's just the way this game works. Just because you are used to another MMO doesn't mean this one should work the same or that you shouldn't get used to this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
More space doesn't help. It just puts off how long it takes until you have to learn how to discard useless items.Quote:
Incredibly limited inventory and bank space without giving SE more money? You get used to it.
You can see 10 of them and that is a lot but not enough in EW with how buffs were changed to align at the same time, so it would help for it to increase.Quote:
Being unable to more clearly see the buffs of your party members? You get used to it.
Yes, you get used to all of this as well. There is a lore reason for the first one and a technical reason for the second one.Quote:
Having to go through the retainer dialogue and menu every time you want to sell something on the marketboard, potentially multiple times? You get used to it.
Being unable to access part if your inventory (the saddlebag) in instanced content? You get used to it.
Part of the Duty Finder settings resetting every time you log out? You get used to it.
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06-27-2022, 01:25 PMShurrikhanThat something "is what it is" does not necessitate that it isn't also lucrative site for potential improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
You can "get used to" any impairment or unpolished design. That one can get used to either does not mean that any improvement would automatically be wasteful and/or redundant.
Would "I'd like the option to..." be a more fitting title than that this would "need to" be offered? Sure. But there's no solid argument as to why some further UI customization options, especially where the present form feels most unpolished to a given player, would be a bad thing.
And this just reads like yet another blasé "Then just go back to X," retort. There is no mention in the OP of the relative size of the HP bar being uncomfortably small only because of their expectations from whatever other game, let alone any specific MMO.Quote:
Just because you are used to another MMO doesn't mean this one should work the same or that you shouldn't get used to this one.
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06-27-2022, 02:37 PMJojoyaYour argument would make more sense if there was a specific reason why it is better for the party frames to be designed as they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
What's the point of party frames? To see information relevant to you regarding the status of party members in a format that makes it quick and easy to analyze while also allowing the player to concentrate on everything else going on during an encounter. Healers rely on this information far more than others and their rapid response can sometimes be the difference between a clear and a wipe.
If the party frames don't accomplish that, then they are poorly designed. Telling players "get used to it" is not the way to approach the problem.
As a healer, I don't need to see the majority of buffs active on another player. I don't care that the MNK is in Opo-Opo form or the DRG is using Life Surge or the PLD is using Fight or Flight. Those buffs aren't relevant to any except the player they affect. Their presence is a distraction from the buffs (mitigation, HoT, shields) and debuffs (anything that needs to be removed with Esuna, Vuln up, etc) that are meaningful to my role and a waste of screen space.
I don't need to see mana bars on members playing jobs that don't use mana or don't use the mana to heal/resurrect. Again, another distraction that my mind needs to filter out and a waste of screen space.
My raid frames in WoW would take up less room than the 8 man party frame here even when I was healing a 40 man raid in open world content. I could see what I needed to know much more easily there than here. That was true even of WoW's default raid frames after they were updated in MoP as it was of the even better raid frames I could get from add-ons.
The party frames here are terrible and there's really no reason why SE can't make at least some improvements to them. They're the only real complaint I've had about the UI since I started playing the game and in those 6 years, the only thing about them that changed was the TP bar getting removed when TP was removed as a job resource. Just stacking the health bars on top of the mana bars on top of buffs/debuffs then splitting the party list into 2 columns would be a massive improvement in utilizing screen space if SE won't improve them even more. -
06-27-2022, 02:49 PMJeeqbitI just don't particularly see the problem with them. They work fine for me and display everything that I need to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
The MP is kind of pointless, especially with how we can't regenerate their MP anymore, but what the MP and rotation buffs do tell us is if someone seems to using their abilities right.Quote:
I don't need to see mana bars on members playing jobs that don't use mana or don't use the mana to heal/resurrect. Again, another distraction that my mind needs to filter out and a waste of screen space.
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06-27-2022, 03:22 PMtechnole
You can tell who doesn't do real endgame content with all the complaining.
Mechanical buffs are prioritized left. Whether you need to know who on the party list you need to swap or join for certain mechanics. Of course there was a savage mechanic where you had to read right-to-left.
Whether it's being Astro and knowing that certain buffs are up helps where to prioritize who to give cards. FoF, Tethers, Dance buffs, etc.
This also true for Black Mage and MP bar can definitely show where they are in the rotation.
As a healer, if the Dark Knight is severely low on HP they might not be able to TBN and therefore will have less or no mitigation for certain mechanics.
MP used to be renewable resource from other jobs like casters and phys ranged back in Stormblood. Things have changed now.
But the list can go on and on... -
06-27-2022, 04:25 PMLaylaTsarraI don't know i play trusts all the time I don't see where the problem is.Quote:
Originally Posted by SamSmoot
Totally agree perhaps a pic of what the issue is would enlighten us and this is coming from someone who runs trusts for all MSQ dungeons on my main and all my alts. I enjoy trusts I might add and am happy to see them adding other xpac main story dungeons to their repertoire.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCheese77
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06-27-2022, 05:37 PMJojoyaI don't care whether someone is playing their job right or wrong. I care whether or not the boss is dead when we're done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
If it's information you want because you're the party leader then have it as an option to enable display. It shouldn't be forced on everyone.