Eorzea or Etheirys?

the realm we currently exist in...which is it's name?
I've heard multitudes of people say Eorzea, but i've also been seeing far more mention towards Etheirys of late in the story...sooo which is it?

From what i've seen in terms of maps and lore references, Eorzea isn't even the realm per say, it's the region of the planet we're on. Aldenard, lslabard & Othard.

Eorzea: The main realm we live in

Aldenard: The continent which Eorzea is in (Yes this part is confusing)

Hydaelyn/Etheirys: The name of the planet

Is said Etheirys is the unsundered planet. While Hydaelyn is the source/the sundered one.

Eorzea is the name of the region made of the continent of Aldenard + surrounding islands like La Noscea.
Etheirys is the name of the planet. Hydaelyn is another name for it before the characters learned the name Etheirys in Endwalker.

Eorzea - A collection of allied city states located on the continent of Aldenard, on the planet Hydaelyn.

Hydaelyn - The name of the planet we live on.

Etheirys - What the ancients used to call the planet pre-sundering.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

Aldenard: The continent which Eorzea is in (Yes this part is confusing)

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It's actually the other way around. Aldenard is the name of the continent, but "Eorzea" includes Aldenard, Vylbrand (the island where La Noscea is located) and also noted in the lorebook to include the Cieldales and other smaller islands.

The best real world example I can think of:

Aldenard = Australia - the continent itself
Eorzia = Oceania - the region of the world that includes the continent and surrounding island/ocean expanse
Hydaelyn = Earth - the name of the planet
Etheirys = Terra - the name the ancients (Roman empire) called Earth

It's not perfect, but that's probably the best general overview.

I used Australia because there's not really another good "Oceania" equivalent for other continents in the real world. Like North America "includes" the Caribbean islands by default, whereas Oceania includes areas that are not typically considered part of Australia (the continent) itself. Likewise, Africa includes Madagascar, otherwise we could use the word "Africa without Madagascar" for Aldenard and with Madagascar (as our La Noscea in this case) for Eorzia.

...but anyway, maybe that helps?

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Originally Posted by Renathras

The best real world example I can think of:

Aldenard = Australia - the continent itself
Eorzia = Oceania - the region of the world that includes the continent and surrounding island/ocean expanse
Hydaelyn = Earth - the name of the planet
Etheirys = Terra - the name the ancients (Roman empire) called Earth

It's not perfect, but that's probably the best general overview.

I used Australia because there's not really another good "Oceania" equivalent for other continents in the real world. Like North America "includes" the Caribbean islands by default, whereas Oceania includes areas that are not typically considered part of Australia (the continent) itself. Likewise, Africa includes Madagascar, otherwise we could use the word "Africa without Madagascar" for Aldenard and with Madagascar (as our La Noscea in this case) for Eorzia.

...but anyway, maybe that helps?

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https://i.redd.it/bq0ngxelvcq81.jpg

Eorzea is the continent where the 3 starting city states as was as Ishgard and Ala Mhigo are on. Eiteirys is the name of the planet as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Listrella

Eorzea is the continent where the 3 starting city states as was as Ishgard and Ala Mhigo are on. Eiteirys is the name of the planet as a whole.

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It's not actually, as others have stated, Eorzea is not a continent, it's the region of the world that encompases the continent of Aldernard and the island of Vlybrand. Etheirys is the Ancient name of the world, before the original Final Days and the Sundering, after which people called it Hydaelyn. Think of it like how in our world the continents of Europe and North America are often called 'The West', it's a geopolitical region that is larger than a continent, but not a continent in itself.

Part of the confusion is unfortunately because of SE's original promotions for the original version of the game (version 1.0) always stated 'Eorzea' as the game's setting with the name Hydaelyn barely rating a mention (which, did make sense, given gameplay back then was restricted to Eorzea only and not Hydaelyn at large)., and this continued into ARR. And now with EW and the likes of Urianger immediately swapping to referring to the world as 'Etheirys' even when he has no reason or need to do so, it's made things even more confusing.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

the likes of Urianger immediately swapping to referring to the world as 'Etheirys' even when he has no reason or need to do so, it's made things even more confusing.

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It's absolutely appropriate to his character, though. Of course Urianger is going to choose the ancient name over the modern one if he knows it. Nevermind that the majority of the world population probably doesn't even know the planet as "Hydaelyn" to begin with, choosing to call it "this star" instead.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

It's absolutely appropriate to his character, though. Of course Urianger is going to choose the ancient name over the modern one if he knows it. Nevermind that the majority of the world population probably doesn't even know the planet as "Hydaelyn" to begin with, choosing to call it "this star" instead.

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Oh great. I haven't even started EW yet, and already another reason to find him irritating.

Somebody get this man a book on social norms.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

And now with EW and the likes of Urianger immediately swapping to referring to the world as 'Etheirys' even when he has no reason or need to do so, it's made things even more confusing.

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Everyone who does that is from Sharlayan, and Sharlayan is an entire nation full of massive nerds. I firmly believe that every single Sharlayan would latch on to an obscure but technically correct term and just be itching for a chance to drop a 'well actually' when someone questions them.

It's also just got a purely functional purpose in Endwalker. A planet having the same name as a god is just fine in almost all contexts both fictional and non-fictional (we don't get confused between Mars the planet and Mars the god, after all), but Endwalker is a story where 'the planet Hydaelyn' and 'the entity Hydaelyn' are relevant and distinct figures with separate but intertwined story arcs. In that context, it's just easier to give one of them a new name to make sure there's no confusion.

Especially since it's a story being translated into multiple languages, so any linguistic tricks fly out the window. Like, I know in English you could conceivably shoot for a 'Mother Earth' angle and call them 'Hydaelyn' for the planet and 'Mother Hydaelyn' for the entity, but I don't know if that cultural context exists in, say, German. Also going for that angle would probably piss off the people who hate Hydaelyn, and in a story that's trying to set up an equalized dichotomy between Team Hydaelyn and Team Zodiark you don't want to rhetorically stack the deck any more than necessary.

It exists in German. But regardless would people really pick Mother Hydaelyn for the world and just Hydaelyn for the Primal? I'd have taken it to be the other way around.

I found it very annoying how they kept going on about stars that apparently weren't stars but planets and other things. Especially since German does have a perfectly serviceable word that would have been less confusing.

It has bothered me too everytime i read it. A star is not a planet but a sun, the source of heat and light. The stars we see in the sky arent planets at all, its impossible to see them with the naked eye or even the best telescope directly. Its their suns we see.
Please SE stop using this gross mistake.

I think it may have been only the Sharlayans who started calling the planet Hydaelyn anyway, possibly only after they became aware of the "will of the star" and learned her name. So in that case, they've just changed the term they invented in the first place and it's no big deal to switch over to a new one.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

It has bothered me too everytime i read it. A star is not a planet but a sun, the source of heat and light. The stars we see in the sky arent planets at all, its impossible to see them with the naked eye or even the best telescope directly. Its their suns we see.
Please SE stop using this gross mistake.

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It's not a 'mistake' in this context, it's deliberately pulled from archaic language; there's a few different civilizations (I believe including Japan) that called the Earth a 'star' using the same word as the ones in the sky. Now in their case it was a genuine misconception, but for FFXIV's writers it's using that old convention to add some of that high fantasy gravitas.

And then there's the weird situation of Geomancers which are apparently an inversion of Astrologians; rather than gathering energy from the stars above them, gathering energy from the star below them. Not sure how they pulled that off, but in fairness I don't think the Geomancers know either.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

It has bothered me too everytime i read it. A star is not a planet but a sun, the source of heat and light. The stars we see in the sky arent planets at all, its impossible to see them with the naked eye or even the best telescope directly. Its their suns we see.
Please SE stop using this gross mistake.

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FFXIV uses old English and bases their phrasing on a lot of old languages. The term planet came from the Greek word planetes which means wanderer. Planets were viewed the same as stars in early times.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

https://i.redd.it/bq0ngxelvcq81.jpg

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In the strictest of senses, the "real world" seems more like Aldenard is Africa, Illsabard is Eur-Asia, Meracydia is either Australia or Antarctica, and the New World the Americas. But it's a tenuous "parallel" in that sense...though some things are more or less in the right place (Doma is more or less where China is, Hingashi would be Japan, Kugane...Singapore probably, Radz for India [which was a separate continent at one time that drifted into Asia, pushing up the Himalayas in the process], Gyr Abania for the Middle East or Saudi peninsula). There's not EXACTLY a Europe, but Old Sharl and the northern sea islands are probably more or less that, complete with the Greek/Western Europe and Scandinavian vibes, respectively.)

None of that's perfect or even necessarily implied (for example, Ishgard here would be in north-central Africa, probably around Libya or maybe Tunisia or old Carthage, yet very clearly has dark-ages European motifs and inspiration, making it more akin to Gaul/France), though it is kinda cool how the general continents sorta work to it and at least SOME cultures/civilizations are kind of where you might expect.

I was using the relationship between Australia and Oceania because it's kind of what's going on here in the naming terms.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

And now with EW and the likes of Urianger immediately swapping to referring to the world as 'Etheirys' even when he has no reason or need to do so, it's made things even more confusing.

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Agreed with all your post EXCEPT this, and the reason why is...

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Originally Posted by Rongway

It's absolutely appropriate to his character, though. Of course Urianger is going to choose the ancient name over the modern one if he knows it. Nevermind that the majority of the world population probably doesn't even know the planet as "Hydaelyn" to begin with, choosing to call it "this star" instead.

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...PARTLY that. But the other part is that you guys have to remember he ALSO spends a good chunk of Endwalker with the Lopporits. And they call the planet Etherys. So it stands to reason he'd do a "When in Rome..." or "This is how they know you..." thing and just start using their word for it, both to avoid confusion/frustration AND because he's the bookish, "technically correct" type. I could see him getting annoyed talking with Lopporits and saying Hydaelyn for the planet, only for them to say "Oh yes, she's a great person, she is", mistakenly thinking he's talking about the goddess/Primal/Venat.

So it's honestly pretty logical for him to make the change. And given the scholarly, bookish types that comprise Sharlayan, it stands to reason they'd be using the word in general. It was a great secret up until now, but now the word is out, and the ones in the know were already using it since they'd already been talking with the Lopporits for 100 years or whatnot. Or to put it another way:

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Everyone who does that is from Sharlayan, and Sharlayan is an entire nation full of massive nerds. I firmly believe that every single Sharlayan would latch on to an obscure but technically correct term and just be itching for a chance to drop a 'well actually' when someone questions them.

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That. :)

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Originally Posted by Ransu

FFXIV uses old English and bases their phrasing on a lot of old languages. The term planet came from the Greek word planetes which means wanderer. Planets were viewed the same as stars in early times.

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That's not even the worst part. They used to think that everything in the skies was a dome over the (flat) Earth, or possibly, if the Earth was a sphere, a bigger sphere. The idea was that the stars were flecks of some kind on that dome, and the dome/sphere rotated around the Earth, making what we think are moving skies.

Planets, on the other hand (because of the way the Earth "catches up" to them when we orbit for the ones outside of our orbit, so Mars and out) do this weird thing where they have a little loop in the sky where they start appearing to go "backward" as we approach them, then resume their normal motion once we pass them. Early astronomers legit came up with some pretty ingenious and complex explanations for this (like inner layers of dome/sphere within the larger background sphere) and both mapped AND mathed out these motions well before realizing that Earth was not flat, Earth was not (as far as we know) the center of the Universe, or even the center of the solar system, or what planets and stars are, or their distinctions.

So in all of that sense, using the archaic "star" for planet kind of makes sense given the level of technological and cultural development in FFXIV's world.

Though it did throw me off at the start, too. It helps that they're literally NEVER talking about actual stars (the giant balls of nuclear reacting gas) kind, so there's really no confusion. The only case where I'm not ENTIRELY sure about that is the Last Dregs where Jammingway notes the "dead star" above them. Given the rough size of a burnt out white dwarf, and the fact the whole place is a Dynamis acid trip to begin with, that's the ONE case where it might actually be referencing a star. Or the dead remnants of one, rather. But even there, it could very well be speaking of a dead planet, too. I guess I kind of got used to the way Kingdom Hearts treated planets like stars as well and just roll with it. :)

Well, I guess the ASTs could be talking about actual stars...but they could also be referring to them as planets/solar systems, so it's kinda weird. As far as I've been able to tell, the people of FFXIV have no concept of "solar system" at any rate. And we've seen nothing to indicate any star system has more than one planet.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

In the strictest of senses, the "real world" seems more like Aldenard is Africa...

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Aldenard is not Africa. It is, loosely, Europe turned sideways (before they started aiming for a 1:1 comparison to an Earth map at a large scale), maybe with the northern bit of Africa fused into it, but not the whole continent.

Everything we know so far to be "Meracydian" is from Africa. Maybe it's a hybrid Africa-Australia but we've seen no indication of it to this point. It's more like Africa detached from Europe and drifted southeast.

Meanwhile, Ilsabard seems to be Russia detached from the rest of Asia, which has slid off horizontally to the east to become Othard – which is presumably why they seem to be having a hard time actually squeezing it all into the globe at a convincing size and leaving so much of it as blank ocean.

Aldernard is Africa. The entirety of FFXIV's world is straight up based off of Earth but stretched out.

I think that there's a lore reason why so much of the Etheirys is ocean (great maps, by the way).

There's a 2018 FanFest interview with Gamer Escape which delves into this, and it's also covered in the EE volume 1. In short, the Fifth Umbral Calamity (of Ice) causes an ice age of sorts where various peoples (Miqo'te, Lalafell) migrate across the now frozen oceans to get to congregate in aether-rich regions where they can actually grow crops, Eorzea being one such place. Magic flourishes as a means of combating the cold, but eventually leads to the War of the Magi, which causes the Sixth Umbral Calamity (of Water). This causes everyone to seek out the high ground to escape the resultant great Flood. I'm sure that if you looked at a map of Etheirys at various timepoints during this, you'd see varying amounts of landmass. It may be that there's just less landmass now because the flood waters never completely receded.

What makes this really interesting is the First, where Norvrandt is functionally just a map of Eorzea with everything else erased by the Flood of Light ('the Empty'). Lakeland is Mor Dhona, Eulmore is Limsa, Rak'tika is the Shroud, Amh Araeng is Thanalan, Il Mheg is Coerthas, and Bismark likes to sleep in the Aether rich waters of 'the Source' much like Midgardsormr does in Lake Silvertear. To extrapolate from this, it's possible that the other shards are 'mirror images' of Etheirys from 12000 years ago, with variations in geography arising from their own unique history.

As a simple case in point, what if on one such shard, Meracydia and Ilsabard retained its land bridge simply because it had never experienced a great Flood? If so, you could conceivably shard hop, cross the land bridge, hop back, and find yourself on a different continent.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's actually the other way around. Aldenard is the name of the continent, but "Eorzea" includes Aldenard, Vylbrand (the island where La Noscea is located) and also noted in the lorebook to include the Cieldales and other smaller islands.

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Is there a difference between Vylbrand and La Noscea? That's the most confusing geographical distinction for me. Eorzea is a region consisting of different landmasses, like Oceania, and I find that easy to remember.

But Vylbrand is just that island. And every part of that island is called X "La Noscea". Its like saying Madagascar is also called something else simultaneously. Situation of an old name vs a new name, maybe? Or does Vylbrand actually include something besides the La Noscean area?

And Aldenard is pretty clearly africa, with Madagascar (Vylbrand) on the left instead of the right, imo. And Merycidia is australia. Hingashi is Japan, etc. I mean, culturues don't necessarily line up, but just geography-wise, they basically made Sharlayan the british isles, sank europe or squished it, left a lot of asia basically the same. Oh and south america is HUGE, now. lol I'm rather curious what culture they'll add to north america. And what cultures they'll add to the reflections. I'm hoping Emet's "some of the civilizations on the reflections will surprise you" means a super advanced society somewhere and I'd like north america to get something cool, even if its not on the source.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Is there a difference between Vylbrand and La Noscea? That's the most confusing geographical distinction for me. Eorzea is a region consisting of different landmasses, like Oceania, and I find that easy to remember.

But Vylbrand is just that island. And every part of that island is called X "La Noscea". Its like saying Madagascar is also called something else simultaneously. Situation of an old name vs a new name, maybe? Or does Vylbrand actually include something besides the La Noscean area?

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All the parts of the island that we visit are called La Noscea, but I assume the kobolds' area extends northwards from the border zone in outer La Noscea.

I do think the game tends to have confusing layers of names, particularly when the city names overlap with the surrounding regions.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

And Aldenard is pretty clearly africa, with Madagascar (Vylbrand) on the left instead of the right, imo. And Merycidia is australia. Hingashi is Japan, etc. I mean, culturues don't necessarily line up, but just geography-wise, they basically made Sharlayan the british isles, sank europe or squished it, left a lot of asia basically the same. Oh and south america is HUGE, now.

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Take a map of Europe, turn it 90 degrees, east upwards. Now consider Norse-themed dragons in the northwest, apparently Turkish-influenced Ala Mhigo in the northeast, a large island in the southwest, central European forest, arid south perhaps stretching across to incorporate some of the Sahara desert.

Eorzea is Europe with creative liberties.

Meanwhile, Meracydia has African plants and animals (aloe, sesame, hippos) while Australian animals are not credited to it.

For North America, we know the Native American themed Whalaqee tribe from the blue mage quests. Mamool Ja appear to be "Mayincaztec" as TV Tropes phrases it.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Is there a difference between Vylbrand and La Noscea? That's the most confusing geographical distinction for me. Eorzea is a region consisting of different landmasses, like Oceania, and I find that easy to remember.

But Vylbrand is just that island. And every part of that island is called X "La Noscea". Its like saying Madagascar is also called something else simultaneously. Situation of an old name vs a new name, maybe? Or does Vylbrand actually include something besides the La Noscean area?

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Vylbrand is the big island. There are smaller islands around it which are included in La Noscea. On the map of Eastern La Noscea, you can see small islands near Costa Del Sol. On the map of Western La Noscea, the Isles of Umbra. In Lower La Noscea, Moraby Drydocks are on a separate island connected to Vylbrand by the bridge at Oschon's Embrace. Limsa Lominsa is entirely off the coast of Vylbrand except for the city gates.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Meanwhile, Meracydia has African plants and animals (aloe, sesame, hippos) while Australian animals are not credited to it.

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Actually, Aussie animals are credited to Meracydia as well, well, at least one is (the wind-up kangaroo minion description mentions it's based on a "Meracydian marsupial") - whether the Ittybitty Duckbill, Frill-necked Lizard and Koala Joey specifically come from there too also isn't mentioned though (although the koala and duckbill are also seen in Elpis so that means like most of Hydaelyn's modern wildlife the Ancients created them originally -amusingly the minion description for the Koala Joey seems to suggest it's found in Eorzea given it "dropped down onto a retainer who was cutting down it's tree"). ;)

Also I understand wattle bark can be found via BTN gathering in Azys Lla (wattle being an Australian native tree of course), and the dragon sector of that was literally lifted wholesale from Meracydia, so it's basically all but proven Meracydia is a "great south land owing more to Australia but has some elements of Africa as well" (it isn't shaped like Australia though, apparently being roughly triangular in shape according to the Hydaelyn model seen from the moon).

I still think Aldenard is roughly Africa in shape, but culturally is more Europe/Middle Eastern than anything. But I digress.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Actually, Aussie animals are credited to Meracydia as well, well, at least one is (the wind-up kangaroo minion description mentions it's based on a "Meracydian marsupial") - whether the Ittybitty Duckbill, Frill-necked Lizard and Koala Joey specifically come from there too also isn't mentioned though (although the koala and duckbill are also seen in Elpis so that means like most of Hydaelyn's modern wildlife the Ancients created them originally -amusingly the minion description for the Koala Joey seems to suggest it's found in Eorzea given it "dropped down onto a retainer who was cutting down it's tree"). ;)

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I'm hoping the spiders didn't make the jump from Australia to Meracydia :(

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Actually, Aussie animals are credited to Meracydia as well, well, at least one is (the wind-up kangaroo minion description mentions it's based on a "Meracydian marsupial") - whether the Ittybitty Duckbill, Frill-necked Lizard and Koala Joey specifically come from there too also isn't mentioned though

Also I understand wattle bark can be found via BTN gathering in Azys Lla (wattle being an Australian native tree of course)

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Well, the kangaroo is a recent minion, and I'm pretty sure last time the topic came up, I asked about the other minions and was told they're all nonspecific. And I hadn't seen wattle raised as a point before.

So it's a hybrid, but still. Africa is mashed into Meracydia; Eorzea is sideways Europe; Othard is Asia but with Russia ripped off the top and presumably recast as Ilsabard.

I was under the impression that Eorzea was the combination of Aldenard and Vylbrand

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Originally Posted by Guhthaerz

I was under the impression that Eorzea was the combination of Aldenard and Vylbrand

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Aldenard is basically the Far East e.g. Hingashi, Kugane.
Eorzea is Vylbrand (where Limsa is) and the rest of Eorzea itself (Ul'dah, Gridania, Ishgard, Ala Mhigo), and though we can't 100% see due to the clouds, seems that Ala Mhigo area could connect to Ilsabard where Garlemald is.
Hmm.

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Originally Posted by AlenyaElizabelle

Aldenard is basically the Far East e.g. Hingashi, Kugane.
Eorzea is Vylbrand (where Limsa is) and the rest of Eorzea itself (Ul'dah, Gridania, Ishgard, Ala Mhigo)

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Not at all. You're getting your locations scrambled – even though the correct information has been discussed several times through the thread already.

Aldenard is the mainland continent where most of the Eorzean nations are located.

Othard is the far eastern continent.