Place your bets: Will The Dusk Vigil have duty support?

I imagine the first time we may get confirmation of the "few heavensward dungeons" that will get duty support with 6.2 may come with the next live letter, so now's a good time to ask this question, being a week or so away from that moment!

It's obvious that the mandatory MSQ dungeons will get duty support, that's its key point after all, but as someone who literally rolled 4 alts specifically for this feature, whose leveling is tied to the progress of the ongoing march of duty support from patch to patch, I have a vested interest in the speculation of whether or not the dusk vigil, at level 51 and mandatory for flight, will be supported.

I can see it either way: On one hand, MSQ's story isn't flight, and flight isn't "mandatory," but I mean, on the other hand... isn't it? Particularly for heavensward where it was intended from the get-go?

I'm perfectly willing to ride Castrum Meridianum to Sohm Al for additional jobs on those "duty support alts," I'm just rather taken with speculating as to whether or not I'll have to!

What do you think? Will the Dusk Vigil have duty support, or will we have to step outside of the newly supported single player comfort bubble to fly in Coerthas Western Highlands? I could call this either way, how about you?

EDIT: And as of the live letter, the answer appears to be "no!" Thanks for the speculative conversation!

I had forgotten that Dusk Vigil wasn't technically part of the MSQ.

Going to go on a limb and bet "no" in that case. If the purpose of the Duty Support system is to allow a user to treat it as a single player game, then any optional story dungeon that isn't directly tied into the plot won't be necessary. I don't recall at any point that flight is required for MSQ in that zone, not even later on in the patch content. Would a single player style person like to do things like B rank notorious monsters or sight seeing logs? Perhaps. But if so, they have stepped outside the bounds of the bare minimum that Duty Support intended to provide, and yeah, they'll have to do it with some extra bodies.

I don't think so, it's an optional dungeon and none of the optional dungeons in ARR had duty support.

It should have, because it kind of is mandatory for a scholar job quest(you need to fly for it)

I doubt it since the reason it's optional now is that flight is optional in that zone. It's not required to progress the MSQ like later in HW. I've always found it a bit odd they didn't find a way to make flight required so they don't have that dungeon stick out like a sore thumb. But that's probably why it won't be included.

It probably won't, since it's strictly optional content. But honestly? I wouldn't mind if the questing surrounding it received a rewrite to make it MSQ content. Give us Ysayle, Estinien, and Alphinaud as Trusts for it, and maybe another NPC as a fourth option if necessary.

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Originally Posted by ameliaw

It should have, because it kind of is mandatory for a scholar job quest(you need to fly for it)

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Healers are optional.

/s

Same question would go for Shisui of the Violet Tides, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Healers are optional.

/s

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Fellow WAR eh?

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

It probably won't, since it's strictly optional content. But honestly? I wouldn't mind if the questing surrounding it received a rewrite to make it MSQ content. Give us Ysayle, Estinien, and Alphinaud as Trusts for it, and maybe another NPC as a fourth option if necessary.

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It wouldn't stick out that much either. Just make it a step on their journey. There are other places where the team just stopped to help out. Retrieving a priceless treasure from a dungeon goes right along with that.

I think it will eventually since it's needed for the Aether Current (along with Shisui), but it will be done after the actual MSQ dungeons get support. Flying is technically optional content even if seen as important by most of the player base.

Depending on whether SE does anything to update Grand Companies, they may also add the support to the dungeons that have to be completed for GC rank.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Healers are optional.

/s

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Playing Scholar or basically any class over another is optional.

You don't need to collect all the aether currents and unlock flying. It will improve your QoL if you do, but you don't need to do it. It's not mandatory to complete the MSQ.

We really have to draw the line somewhere.

Don't see why. It is not part of MSQ. Same with Sunken Temple of Qarn, Cutter's Cry, Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale.



Same with any trial that is not directly tied to MSQ, like the warring triads, four lords and the sorrow of Werlyt, or Hildabrand-related ones. Or any normal raids.



Perhaps when SE has their fill with updating Duty Support for all MSQ-related dungeon/trials, they will begin to care about non-MSQ ones. Maybe not.

There's a few things they could do, they could re-write the MSQ to force you into Dusk Vigil, or they could re-adjust the Aether Currents and plant the last one on a new quest in the area, or they could leave it as optional.

A bit off topic but, the bigger issue facing the "planned solo journey through the MSQ" is the Crystal Tower Raids, there's no chance SE have the time or ability to make an Alliance Raid possible with 23 NPC's. So I think Dusk Vigil is the least of their concerns post ARR.

Didn't they update the Dusk Vigil recently to remove some of the mechanics. That seems to have been done with the duty support in mind, same as the Hraesvelgr update.

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Originally Posted by ameliaw

it kind of is mandatory for a scholar job quest(you need to fly for it)

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If that's the case they definitely need to address this. Can't exactly tell players "You can play FFXIV solo if you want," then cut them off from progressing job quests.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Healers are optional.

/s

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Oof! I felt that. Not gonna lie, there have been a couple times where I died stupidly while a boss was at half health and the tank basically beat it solo. Kinda felt like "Well why am I even here, then!?"

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Originally Posted by LogicHatesMe

they could re-adjust the Aether Currents

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Honestly, that's probably the best and the simplest solution to all of this. I guess ideally I'd like people to just suck it up and play a darn dungeon with other humans for once in their lives, but this would easily let FFXIV maintain the smooth "play solo through MSQ" experience.

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A bit off topic but, the bigger issue facing the "planned solo journey through the MSQ" is the Crystal Tower Raids, there's no chance SE have the time or ability to make an Alliance Raid possible with 23 NPC's. So I think Dusk Vigil is the least of their concerns post ARR.

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Oh yeah, that's a great point actually. I wonder if they have any plans for that? I agree, I don't see them remaking those three raids for a solo playthrough. Maybe they'll let players skip it by going through some sort of plot synopsis sequence? I dunno.

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Originally Posted by Ilisidi

Didn't they update the Dusk Vigil recently to remove some of the mechanics. That seems to have been done with the duty support in mind, same as the Hraesvelgr update.

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Not sure, that's news to me. You're not thinking of Stone Vigil from ARR, by chance? That one absolutely had a boss fight that was completely gutted.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

Not sure, that's news to me. You're not thinking of Stone Vigil from ARR, by chance? That one absolutely had a boss fight that was completely gutted.

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The new fight isn't terrible. Other than losing the cannons, it has replaced an unintuitive mechanism (positioning the dragon and yourselves so the tornadoes don't end up blocking the cannons) with a clearer wall of approaching tornadoes you need to dodge.

Poor tank positioning in the old fight could also lead to the tank inadvertently getting the cannon operator killed by having the dragon – and thus its fire breath attack – close to and facing the cannons.

For me, it will.
Because that's still a leveling dungeon.

While trust have been designed to allow to do story content alone indeed, you'd appreciate to be able to use it for leveling as well.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The new fight isn't terrible.

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No, certainly not. I actually like that instead of simply deleting the cannons they blew apart the whole wall and gave us a nicer view of the outdoors.

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positioning the dragon and yourselves so the tornadoes don't end up blocking the cannons

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OMG, I'm gonna embarrass myself now... I never even realized we had influence over where the tornadoes went. I thought they just randomly wandered around the room! The only time I ever saw one plant itself on a cannon and just stay there was when I went in with a Squadron party. I assumed it was a bug and the encounter somehow didn't play nice with Squadrons. Well, derp. I was today years old when I found out I was so bad at this game that I needed Stone Vigil dumbed down for me. :p

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Poor tank positioning in the old fight could also lead to the tank inadvertently getting the cannon operator killed by having the dragon – and thus its fire breath attack – close to and facing the cannons.

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Okay, well that one I don't actually think is a flaw -- it's a lesson to learn about situational awareness and tank positioning. There are plenty of fights where you don't want your party up in the boss's face due to cleaves and such. If the tank accidentally gets fire breathed on the party and someone dies or there is a party wipe, that's not an issue with the encounter, or even necessarily a "bad" thing. You just pick yourselves up and try again, with the knowledge you gained.

Wouldn't it be more prudent to expand Duty Support into the required 2.x trials/dungeons before setting sights on 3.0?

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Originally Posted by LogicHatesMe

A bit off topic but, the bigger issue facing the "planned solo journey through the MSQ" is the Crystal Tower Raids, there's no chance SE have the time or ability to make an Alliance Raid possible with 23 NPC's. So I think Dusk Vigil is the least of their concerns post ARR.

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Oh that's definitely a much bigger deal, but I have solutions for that! Thankfully I can use Samurai or Red mage (who come "50 and geared") to get alts, particularly tank-concept ones past crystal tower and never, ever have to tank it!

... But yeah Crystal Tower is the elephant in the room when we talk about MSQ soloability!

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Originally Posted by Omedon

Oh that's definitely a much bigger deal, but I have solutions for that! Thankfully I can use Samurai or Red mage (who come "50 and geared") to get alts, particularly tank-concept ones past crystal tower and never, ever have to tank it!

... But yeah Crystal Tower is the elephant in the room when we talk about MSQ soloability!

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Instead of adding 23 NPCs they could just make a solo encounter for it. It wouldn't be the first time they've made solo encounters for a group instance.

I'm not sure how I feel about that really. Like sure, Alliance Raids Roulette slows down during the less exciting patches with my DC sometimes only having 8 hours worth of time during the day where you can actually catch them, but if you do catch them it's almost always a CT raid.

The future of Duty Support is certainly worth thinking about.

They have to give us in Duty Support next:
Thornmarch Hard
Leviathan Hard
Ramuh Hard
Shiva Hard
Snowcloak
Keeper of the Lake

That's everything story mandatory from 2.x up to 3.0.

In 3.0 they have to give us:
Ravana Hard Mode
Sohm Al
The Aery
The Vault
Bismarck HM
Great Gubal Library
Aetherochemical Research Facility
Thordan Hard

3.1 to 3.55
The Antitower
Sohr Khai
Xelphatol
Titan Hard Mode (literally side content until Ga Bu)
Baelsar's Wall

4.0
Sirensong Sea
Susano Hard
Bardam's Mettle
Doma Castle
Lakshmi
Castrum Abania
Ala Mhigo
Shinryu Hard

4.1 to 4.55
Drowned City of Skalla
The Burn
The Ghimlyt Dark

5.0 and beyond
Already have it except for Trials.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Titan Hard Mode (literally side content until Ga Bu)

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Titan HM (and Ifrit and Garuda) must be completed during the post-ARR sequence. The main story won't let you progress otherwise. I forget if it's before the Scions leave the Waking Sands, or before the bloody banquet (this one might be Crystal Tower, it's been a while), but there's a roadblock in there somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

The future of Duty Support is certainly worth thinking about.

They have to give us in Duty Support next:
Thornmarch Hard
Leviathan Hard
Ramuh Hard
Shiva Hard
Snowcloak
Keeper of the Lake

That's everything story mandatory from 2.x up to 3.0.

In 3.0 they have to give us:
Ravana Hard Mode
Sohm Al
The Aery
The Vault
Bismarck HM
Great Gubal Library
Aetherochemical Research Facility
Thordan Hard

3.1 to 3.55
The Antitower
Sohr Khai
Xelphatol
Titan Hard Mode (literally side content until Ga Bu)
Baelsar's Wall

4.0
Sirensong Sea
Susano Hard
Bardam's Mettle
Doma Castle
Lakshmi
Castrum Abania
Ala Mhigo
Shinryu Hard

4.1 to 4.55
Drowned City of Skalla
The Burn
The Ghimlyt Dark

5.0 and beyond
Already have it except for Trials.

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I believe someone on this forum mentioned at one point that no more scenarios will get duty support in the 6.X cycle. To be honest, I’m ok with that because the barrier with the community and dungeons is perception of pace with trash pulls. Like, I will never tank or heal a dungeon for live players again, but I’d gladly do a trial because there’s no trash to be expected to speed through.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Titan HM (and Ifrit and Garuda) must be completed during the post-ARR sequence. The main story won't let you progress otherwise. I forget if it's before the Scions leave the Waking Sands, or before the bloody banquet (this one might be Crystal Tower, it's been a while), but there's a roadblock in there somewhere.

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The HM Primal quests need to be done before Keeper of the Lake and The Chrysalis. A quest or two after that is when you need to do CT, which is a handful of quests before the steps of faith and eventually the bloody banquet.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Instead of adding 23 NPCs they could just make a solo encounter for it. It wouldn't be the first time they've made solo encounters for a group instance.

I'm not sure how I feel about that really. Like sure, Alliance Raids Roulette slows down during the less exciting patches with my DC sometimes only having 8 hours worth of time during the day where you can actually catch them, but if you do catch them it's almost always a CT raid.

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They could also split crystal tower into 3 regular dungeons and completely re-design them. That would get rid of it from Alliance Raid Roulette and probably put them into MSQ roulette instead.

Some of the HW dungeons won't need much doing as they're already available in Squadron with NPC's (shittier AI but still) at least that works for Sohm Al, The Vault and Aetherochemical Research Facility.

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Originally Posted by LogicHatesMe

They could also split crystal tower into 3 regular dungeons and completely re-design them. That would get rid of it from Alliance Raid Roulette and probably put them into MSQ roulette instead.

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My guess is they do something like this, or nothing. I'm new to feeling out how these devs do things, WoW would NEVER do something like re-writing dungeons (and getting rid of the old versions) to make them soloable, so I don't know how heretical it would be to just crush the crystal tower into a 4-man, but with the effort they took to make them MSQ-mandatory, I can't see them just... detaching the crystal tower from the MSQ. The inclusion of CT (as an alliance raid) as a mandatory experience is completely at odds with the newer initiative to make the MSQ soloable, so this is really hard to call. One of those two design intents is going to have to give here, and I'm not sure which it is. I mean, how would the loot systems even adapt from alliance raid to 4-man?

I believe they said they weren't focusing on 8 or 24 man content right now so I wouldn't expect too many changes that way. Their outline was just dungeons for now I think.

And as of the live letter, the answer for this thread appears to be "no!" Thanks for the speculative conversation!

Bonus answer: They are apparently going to potentially do something to "soloify" the Crystal Tower, just likely not during the Endwalker patch cycle!

Considering how long it took them to do something about Castrum and Prae, don't hold your breath waiting.

I definitely did NOT have solo Steps of Faith on my bingo card, though.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I definitely did NOT have solo Steps of Faith on my bingo card, though.

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Speaking as someone who experienced a Steps of Faith DPS queue that went over an hour on an EU server at the "wrong time," this was a welcome surprise!

I guess my hopes for Steps of Faith Ultimate are dashed.

It's an optional dungeon, so it shouldn't