Why are there 2 Raijus?

So ninja's have two Raijus: One that's crap, and one that's actually not crap. Both have the same potency, do the exact same thing, have the same dmg type, same cast time, are activated by the same spell, do not interact with eachother, the only difference is that one is ranged and the other is not.

I am aware that at the launch of EW it was a combo, one came after the other. Now they are two seperate abilities.

Hey devs, you wanna go off about "button bloat"? Why do you make it so a job has two abilities that are functionally identical for absolutely no reason when they could just be one ability? Please explain this to me.

Because the gap closing raiju is awesome! Ninja has so many uptime options now, love watching them Naruto all over the place in p4 act 3 and 4

Uptime I assume

You can just keep one on your hotbar (presumably Fleeting) and ignore the other since they are functionally identical, same with Summon Eos/Selene.

I liked it when it was a combo but hated how frequently you had back-to-back gap closers, they should have just made both melee skills from the start, as it stands, it feels really lousy as a lvl 90 skill. I would have just kept the combo and made it so both Fleeting and Forked Raiju were just standard melee skills and didn't move you, because the frequency of the gap closers was just too much.

I like Raiju as a combo off of Raiton, but it was hastily tampered with after the negative feedback to the gap closer aspect, so now you just use one or the other, there's no reason for both and scenarios where the gap closer is useful are so miniscule it might as well not exist.

Because the gap closing raiju is awesome! Ninja has so many uptime options now, love watching them Naruto all over the place in p4 act 3 and 4

"Lets remove Kaiten because MUH BUTTON BLOAT"
"Lets also give Ninjas two of the exact same ability and waste bar space"

What did the devs mean by this?

GCD gap closers are quite good because they present interesting uptime options: you can break tethers in P4-2 and return to the boss with these, for example, avoiding the use of a weak ranged attack like Throwing Dagger or Tomahawk in the case of WAR and Primal Rend.

They are an extra uptime tool available for NIN so imho there's no reason to remove it, even if it's more situational.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aco505

GCD gap closers are quite good because they present interesting uptime options: you can break tethers in P4-2 and return to the boss with these, for example, avoiding the use of a weak ranged attack like Throwing Dagger or Tomahawk in the case of WAR and Primal Rend.

They are an extra uptime tool available for NIN so imho there's no reason to remove it, even if it's more situational.

---

They can just be rolled into one ability is my entire point. Just remove the worse one. There is literally zero point in having two abilities, both share a cooldown, both requiring the same ability to be used in order to be able to be used, when one is just worse than the other.

It makes zero sense whatsoever. If one is objectively better than that one be the only one.

They cannot say they are dumbing down jobs for "button bloat" then blatantly give a job button bloat. Especially when it's a job they already took away one ability for (asassinate used to be a combo with Dream within a dream, now as of EW the latter just upgrades into the former, dumbing down the job further).

The devs design philosphy for jobs in this game makes absolutely zero logical sense.

They were the same button on launch and still are in PvP. I am among the small minority of people that enjoyed the Raijus being a combo (yes, I did play NIN in ZodEX) and I'm certain there's a way to condense them back into the same button again without having the forced gapcloser part feel terrible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

They can just be rolled into one ability is my entire point. Just remove the worse one. There is literally zero point in having two abilities, both share a cooldown, both requiring the same ability to be used in order to be able to be used, when one is just worse than the other.

It makes zero sense whatsoever. If one is objectively better than that one be the only one.

They cannot say they are dumbing down jobs for "button bloat" then blatantly give a job button bloat. Especially when it's a job they already took away one ability for (asassinate used to be a combo with Dream within a dream, now as of EW the latter just upgrades into the former, dumbing down the job further).

The devs design philosphy for jobs in this game makes absolutely zero logical sense.

---

The issue is that if you make it one Raiju that always gap closes, it can cause issues. NINs were complaining at the beginning of EW precisely because of how many times they had to gap close in their burst.

I really don’t get why there are two separate actions still; there are technically very tiny differences between them in terms of some animation lock for the gap-closer one, but if Square Enix is seriously concerned about button bloat, this seems like an obvious example to address.

Raijin should just automatically turn into Fleeting Raiju or Forked Raiju depending on the distance you are from your targeted enemy. That way neither one would require taking up two tabs in a hot bar and people who like either one can keep both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soge01

Raijin should just automatically turn into Fleeting Raiju or Forked Raiju depending on the distance you are from your targeted enemy. That way neither one would require taking up two tabs in a hot bar and people who like either one can keep both.

---

I think it's fine of how it is now^^ Endwalker Launch NIN was horrible in comparison to 6.05 NIN though I dislike changing actions depending on distance, that would open a whole other can of worms
as for me, I put the Gapclose Raiju to a space where it fits and I'm fine.. honestly I think it would be better if both Raiju would do the same amount of damage.

It was one button, but ninja's complained because during the zodiark fight there was a moment where you're bound and can't move around the same time where you had the raijin ability proc'd. So you either had to sit on your hands and not do anything until the bind was over, or press a button and lose the proc. So they split them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuuZero

honestly I think it would be better if both Raiju would do the same amount of damage.

---

Forked and Fleeting Raiju do deal the same amount of damage, which is why you can use the one you prefer under normal circumstances, unless you meant something else?

No, the other one is Pikaju

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aco505

Forked and Fleeting Raiju do deal the same amount of damage, which is why you can use the one you prefer under normal circumstances, unless you meant something else?

---

what really? Cool! I only know about the different potencies from the Endwalker Launch, I just thought the Devs just sundered the Skills ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aco505

The issue is that if you make it one Raiju that always gap closes, it can cause issues. NINs were complaining at the beginning of EW precisely because of how many times they had to gap close in their burst.

---

Look at the OP's started threads and post history, the OP spends all day just posting negativity.
I don't think the OP gave this any thought at all or have any real experience with it, they just looked for something to complain about and then reached for it without even understanding how things work in practice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soge01

Raijin should just automatically turn into Fleeting Raiju or Forked Raiju depending on the distance you are from your targeted enemy. That way neither one would require taking up two tabs in a hot bar and people who like either one can keep both.

---

I think this would just result in unintended usage and screw you over.
I just have it on Shift + W for when I need to charge back in again, I don't think this is a case of button bloat really because it does have genuine uses and if it automatically turned like that it'd probably become an issue with server ticks and if you don't have a 100% perfect connection too.
I just see a whole lot of issues with it that's not worth it just so people can save a keybind, a keybind that doesn't need to be one of the main ones to begin with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aco505

Forked and Fleeting Raiju do deal the same amount of damage, which is why you can use the one you prefer under normal circumstances, unless you meant something else?

---

Except I'm pretty sure (it's been a minute since I've checked) Forked Raiju animation locks you whereas Fleeting does not.

And in most cases you just use raiton under a trick attack window, so disconnecting is not something you really want to do.