"Prohibited activities" investigations

I'm wondering about what investigations do/do not involve after a string of bad roulettes with salty tanks/griefing premades - do these investigations look at battle logs or do they only consider chat logs?

E.g. the TOS/prohibited activities clearly include using 'emnity manipulating' abilities or refusing to heal as examples of 'uncooperative behaviour' and can be easily verified with the battle log, but reading through some posts on this forum (I know....) I get the impression GMs can't really verify violations or malicious intent unless it's made clear in chat.

So basically... if I make an objectively correct report about a salty tank abusing shirk and say "it's in the battle log" is that sufficient for a report to be actioned, or does the GM investigation require them to type "MWAHAHAHAHA I SHIRK YOU <PLAYER>" in chat to verify a violation/intent? If a healer complains about the pace of a dungeon and then AFKs outside the boss room, is the battle log sufficient to verify a violation without them typing "MUWAHAHAHAHAHAH YOU SEE YOU CANNOT COMPLETE THIS DUTY UNLESS YOU PLAY AS I SAY"?

Put another way, are we free to grief people in DF as much as we want as long as we don't use chat?

Pretty much. Maybe they have no clue what Shirk does. There is no punishment for being shit at the game. ;)

I would imagine that, if I was a GM, I would look for repeated usage of shirk, who is being targeted by it, if it's the same person being targeted, if the targeted requested/expressed that they don't want/don't like being targeted by shirk (to eliminate the possibility that it's just two friends messing with each other), look at chat and battle logs and then finally at where in the instance this is being done.

Also to answer your question, ToS prohibits griefing, period. There's no exceptions like avoiding using chat; it just makes it harder to prove.

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Originally Posted by MakoMight

Put another way, are we free to grief people in DF as much as we want as long as we don't use chat?

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You would like someone to verify that you can't get in trouble unless someone manages to get you to put it in chat?


Nah..

Lets not.

Also there is a log of every skill you use, easily proven by saved replays being a thing. Whether the GM's bother to look at this or not is a mystery.. but maybe we don't mess around we don't find out?

I understand, but the 'harder to prove' part is the fuzzy little detail that matters. We can all imagine the way we'd hope the GMs would approach these issues, even so what you described is a very high bar for proof.

I just wanted to get an idea if there was any point filing reports after having played with a few people who (IMO clearly) were griefing, and the run probably looks a *little bit* different when you're looking at logs vs playing it in real time. But I guess they won't give a clear answer as to where is the line we can walk up to.

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Originally Posted by MakoMight

I'm wondering about what investigations do/do not involve after a string of bad roulettes with salty tanks/griefing premades - do these investigations look at battle logs or do they only consider chat logs?

E.g. the TOS/prohibited activities clearly include using 'emnity manipulating' abilities or refusing to heal as examples of 'uncooperative behaviour' and can be easily verified with the battle log, but reading through some posts on this forum (I know....) I get the impression GMs can't really verify violations or malicious intent unless it's made clear in chat.

So basically... if I make an objectively correct report about a salty tank abusing shirk and say "it's in the battle log" is that sufficient for a report to be actioned, or does the GM investigation require them to type "MWAHAHAHAHA I SHIRK YOU <PLAYER>" in chat to verify a violation/intent? If a healer complains about the pace of a dungeon and then AFKs outside the boss room, is the battle log sufficient to verify a violation without them typing "MUWAHAHAHAHAHAH YOU SEE YOU CANNOT COMPLETE THIS DUTY UNLESS YOU PLAY AS I SAY"?

Put another way, are we free to grief people in DF as much as we want as long as we don't use chat?

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Oh yeah, they look at everything but Hardcore Minority Healers (DPSers) who admit to what they are doing expect a ban or suspension. For example, I had a snob DPS Healer Sage. He or she got very mad I took the side of the tank as the Healer kept pulling and the tank would of done fine but the Sage refused to heal until they got below 5% and after the tank exhausted all buffs yeah its not surprise that we wiped because the Healer was too busy not healing and whining complaining about the tank and insisting the tank heal himself using clem.

At this point I speak up for my tank and the Healer during the last fight of the dungeon then refused to heal me and let me die to teach me a lesson which he or she admitted to in hit and forced the entire party to crawl through the boss battle.

Eventually he did Rez me and once another party member beat me to the punch to saying that the healer admitted to refusing to heal its a TOS violation and caused the entire party grief the battle quickly ended after the Healer started to heal and we could all preform our roles though sadly this healer also did not like to Rez so I had to put up his slack on that.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

Oh yeah, they look at everything but Hardcore Minority Healers (DPSers) who admit to what they are doing expect a ban or suspension. For example, I had a snob DPS Healer Sage. He or she got very mad I took the side of the tank as the Healer kept pulling and the tank would of done fine but the Sage refused to heal until they got below 5% and after the tank exhausted all buffs yeah its not surprise that we wiped because the Healer was too busy not healing and whining complaining about the tank and insisting the tank heal himself using clem.

At this point I speak up for my tank and the Healer during the last fight of the dungeon then refused to heal me and let me die to teach me a lesson which he or she admitted to in hit and forced the entire party to crawl through the boss battle.

Eventually he did Rez me and once another party member beat me to the punch to saying that the healer admitted to refusing to heal its a TOS violation and caused the entire party grief the battle quickly ended after the Healer started to heal and we could all preform our roles though sadly this healer also did not like to Rez so I had to put up his slack on that.

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No need to pick a side, they're both wrong.

A tank not using their tools can also count as griefing, but a SGE consists of doing damage to heal. If the tank does not use their tools then there's very little a SGE can do. I had a SGE a while back who couldn't keep me alive unless I had LD(I was on DRK), after 4 LDs I just started to single pull and even that was too much he started to complain why I didn't use any mitigation lol

Your SGE however started being wrong when they let you die. People really need to stop coddling.

had a tank once in dead ends that turned stance off after the first boss because they felt the healer was healing too often... so we vote kicked them... >.>

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Originally Posted by MakoMight

I'm wondering about what investigations do/do not involve after a string of bad roulettes with salty tanks/griefing premades - do these investigations look at battle logs or do they only consider chat logs?

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They likely have the ability to do a duty recorder rerun of any dungeon (not just the one we can do). I would be very, very surprised if they can't do this.

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Originally Posted by MakoMight

Put another way, are we free to grief people in DF as much as we want as long as we don't use chat?

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No, because once you reach a critical threshhold of reports by different players, then you will trigger the systems likely in place to be investigated. That is, without chat you might not be punished on the first report. but if your permanent file keeps getting strikes then there is enough suspicion for the GMs to look closer.

In terms of shirk, do recall that it can be an accident. People do have fat fingers, and people do also leave the spells on the hotbar in the order they get them, then just mash their fists on the keyboard.

But if a person gets enough reports against them, and if one particular party member is being repeatedly targeted with shirk in multiple dungeons, then that duty recorder replay will show it and verify the report.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

They likely have the ability to do a duty recorder rerun of any dungeon (not just the one we can do). I would be very, very surprised if they can't do this.



No, because once you reach a critical threshhold of reports by different players, then you will trigger the systems likely in place to be investigated. That is, without chat you might not be punished on the first report. but if your permanent file keeps getting strikes then there is enough suspicion for the GMs to look closer.

In terms of shirk, do recall that it can be an accident. People do have fat fingers, and people do also leave the spells on the hotbar in the order they get them, then just mash their fists on the keyboard.

But if a person gets enough reports against them, and if one particular party member is being repeatedly targeted with shirk in multiple dungeons, then that duty recorder replay will show it and verify the report.

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They don't have a battle recorder. Theres the battle log, its what those dps meters read. It list who targets who for action effects like aoes, skirk, provoke etc with a time stamp as well as damage. There is no critical threshold for reports, because it tracks characters not accounts( which makes it easy for a few accounts to have a large number of different characters). The only thing that stays on a character is any punishment already issued.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Also there is a log of every skill you use, easily proven by saved replays being a thing. Whether the GM's bother to look at this or not is a mystery.. but maybe we don't mess around we don't find out?

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They do sometimes. Like people have been punished for using holy about 20 times in ul'dah.