Paladin is the worst tank in ff14. It's not unviable but, it's the worst of the 4.
Here's a few ability adjustments I think might help.
Cover: Model it after Dancer's Closed Position. 'Cover' 1 party member, 30s recast, instant, lasts until removed or the Paladin dies. When you use Sheltron the 'Covered' character receives a 5% mitigation buff for 12s.
Passage of Arms: Creates a designated area in a cone behind you in which party members will only suffer 85% of all damage inflicted, 8y cone for 10s, 120s recast.
The change to this is that it's a puddle the Paladin drops then stays there for 10s. The Paladin can still attack and move without removing the cone. Also, the Paladin can stand inside the area to receive the 15% mitigation buff and does not get the 100% block rate.
Divine Veil: Press the button and everyone inside 20y gets a shield of 10% the Paladin's max HP, 90s recast (even the Paladin)
Clemency: Instant OGCD 750 potency, 2 charges, 120s cooldown. If used under Requiescat uses a Requiescat charge instead a Clemency charge and the target also receives a 150 potency regen for 18s (regen can be applied to the Paladin) as well as healing the Paladin 50% of the heal (only if used on someone else).
What do you all think about this? Is it dumb? Would it break the game? Are any of these good ideas?
proposed Paladin changes
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06-09-2022, 05:00 AMSeaJay13proposed Paladin changes
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06-09-2022, 05:14 AMZarkovitch
Pld as problems. First off, they are still in shb land and the rotation do not fit properly in EW. Next, they have stormblood gimmicks such as why divine veil is still need proc a heal for is shield why it doesnt proc like shake it off or why cover still ass why not changing to something better even it iconic move from pld it still need to be good or why clemency is still a gcd why not a ogcd 3 charges. But thats consequence to be the poster boy of the game. Pld is viable but there alot irks to be great again.
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06-09-2022, 05:20 AMXirean
Or hear me out. We take away the excessive healing from tanks so that they rely on healers more? You know so healers have something to do maybe?
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06-09-2022, 05:27 AMDeveryn
PLD is great as it is. I don't know why you find it the worst, but if it's really not to your liking, you have 3 other choices.
The healing is not excessive. Frankly, it should be welcome in a lot of situations. Healers have plenty to do making sure they and their fellow squishies stay upright. -
06-09-2022, 05:36 AMPaduduAre we playing the same game? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
If you're good enough at tanking, you don't need a healer. Especially at higher levels where you have your full kit, your kit alone will heal you. Looking at you WAR.
Also, PLD's opener can use some work. It is very clunky. It's also the lowest dps for the amount of work you have to pump into making it work. So yeah it's not terrible but definitely needs some love touches. -
06-09-2022, 05:47 AMXirean
The fact that WAR and PLD can both relatively comfortably keep their party alive without a healer is bad.
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06-09-2022, 05:51 AMJeeqbit
I don't think I could decide on a worst, but it certainly wouldn't be PLD.
Then it would have to be changed to not transfer all of the damage to the PLD, otherwise you could have the main tank never take damage which would be strange. If it doesn't transfer 100% of the damage then it would not be useful the way it currently is, where you can quickly cover someone who is about to die.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaJay13
The 15% mitigation on the PLD instead of a block would be a nerf. At the moment, players use this mid-GCD by pressing it the moment before the cast bar ends so it mitigates, then they continue attacking uninterrupted. It's also used for Ahk Morn stacks if everyone has vuln stacks, people are dead, a healer is down or everyone is undergeared and the healers can't manage it alone. It's used a lot in phase transitions for visual effect but that doesn't count because it doesn't seem to be necessary.Quote:
Passage of Arms: The change to this is that it's a puddle the Paladin drops then stays there for 10s. The Paladin can still attack and move without removing the cone. Also, the Paladin can stand inside the area to receive the 15% mitigation buff and does not get the 100% block rate.
This is annoying but it was improved recently so that magic attacks activate it. The PLD doesn't really need it because they are a tank and can survive anything that would kill a DPS.Quote:
Divine Veil: Press the button and everyone inside 20y gets a shield of 10% the Paladin's max HP, 90s recast (even the Paladin)
I don't like this. Further homogenizes tanks by making it a cross between what WAR and GNB has. Clemency is one of the really cool things about PLD. You feel like a tank, a melee DPS, a caster DPS and a healer all in one and that's how it should stay.Quote:
Clemency: Instant OGCD 750 potency, 2 charges, 120s cooldown. If used under Requiescat uses a Requiescat charge instead a Clemency charge and the target also receives a 150 potency regen for 18s (regen can be applied to the Paladin) as well as healing the Paladin 50% of the heal (only if used on someone else).
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06-09-2022, 06:28 AMDeverynI wouldn't call it comfortable. It definitely takes some effort. I've seen people (mostly WAR) just try to solo and sustain themselves. It's apparently too much work to target someone to share the heals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xirean
The DPS that remains also needs to know what they're doing, otherwise heals are wasted. -
06-09-2022, 06:31 AMDeverynIt's absurd to say you don't need a healer... unless you're running with some savage raid tier friends, then you can get away with melting stuff. Once you're at that level it begs the question, what are you even doing running dungeons? Roulette is the norm I deal with and I either need a better healer or better DPS so I don't have to use up too many mits per pull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Padudu
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06-09-2022, 06:49 AMTranquilmelody7
The main issue with cover is the strict range requirement.
As it now, it's inferior to intervention in nearly eveey scenario
It would still be situation with the 2 drastic nerfs it received in SHB, but removing or merely increasing the effect range would make it feel way better to use than it does now -
06-09-2022, 06:51 AMDeverynThe range makes sense considering you're stepping in to take damage for someone else. 10y is quite generous too. I'm curious how far it's "supposed" to reach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7
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06-09-2022, 06:54 AMPadudu1) I like running dungeons and rouls lol. I don't hate doing the contentQuote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
2) I also run roulette, ya there are times when DPS/heals/tanks slacks, but for the most part, nah you literally sit there mostly pressing your DMG skill and an ogcd skill every now and then. I've been doing rouls for a while now as a healer, legit it's probably the most boring role lol. You maybe only have something to heal maybe 5% of the time in a dungeon. If you have a WAR, even less -
06-09-2022, 07:19 AMFile2ish
Though I would like to see some changes, I'm not sure I agree with these proposed changes. But I'm one of those who misses the variety we used to have (i.e. I'm one of those still mad about AST cards, among other things).
Cover I think is fine as is, despite it being situational.
Passage of arms could maybe have a lingering defense buff for those who were in the cone at half it's normal potency if the paladin moves (like AST's collective unconscious) as a QoL.
I like divine veil's uniqueness in how it gets applied, though perhaps an additional buff to the shield would be nice (half of amount cured + 10% of pld's max HP?). Just applying to self would be a great buff in general since it also does a 400 potency cure if I recall.
Clemency should use more MP outside of requiescat for the amount it heals. PLD and WAR heals are a bit overkill in general for tank jobs.
10 yalms is exceedingly generous. FFXI's Paladin also has Cover, but you literally have to stand in between the ally you're covering! That's how it's supposed to work!Quote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
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06-09-2022, 07:28 AMDenjiIn non-endgame, sure. Which is useful when you're dealing with casuals and people who are there for story, crafting, etc and are only in a dungeon to progress in those said areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xirean
Been doing savage and nascent flash/bloodwhetting is like a fart in the wind -- mostly because raw damage isn't what kills you in those; failed mechanics/DPS checks are. The only time I use nascent flash in endgame content is when I'm about to take a tankbuster to the face OR someone gets a vuln/DoT debuff. -
06-09-2022, 07:54 AMEspon
These don't really fix the issues that paladin really has, such as the low potency on physical abilities compared to magical, skill speed not affecting spells, an annoying opener with an early Fight or Flight, and a weird 63 second rotation.
Why would you use Cover over Intervention? If I'm not tanking, I don't need the effect of Sheltron, and it would be better to give the main tank Intervention instead of a 5% damage reduction. Giving random 5% damage reductions to a DPS or healer when I am tanking wouldn't really do anything. I just want to have Cover's cost to be removed.
Clemency is fine how it is and is one of the skills that really draws me to playing paladin. While it's not needed in ideal situations, I do like having it available for when things go bad (such as the healer dying) or when soloing old content. We also don't need an oGCD way to heal after they've added healing effects to our offensive spells. -
06-09-2022, 09:37 AMSamsonBlacke
Instead of just taking perfectly servicable buttons and making them do something different just for the sake of it, why not tackle the button bloat that plagues the job? That's my one major issue with Paladin.
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06-09-2022, 09:49 AMDixieBellOCEthis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xirean
Or just design encounters where tick damage is applied constantly and healers have to manage healing and esuna's ontop of their regular dps rotation. -
06-09-2022, 07:57 PMZeraSkirateaQuote:
Originally Posted by SamsonBlacke
i honestly dont see how PLD has a button bloat issue.
the only 2 abilitys that could be maybe condensed are Sheltron and intervention(and i rather have them be seperate buttons so i can macro intervention)
and Requiscat and the Magic Finisher maybe
Some say Attonment should take over royal authority. but thats a terrible idea unless it would just "dissapear" if you start a normal 1-2 combo again(which would still be horrible)
and a lot of "problems" are really just problems because people want to optimize to much.
63 Seconds rotation or dropp 1 attonment? if people wherent so obsessed with optimizing so everything perfectly aligns with raidbuffs that would be a non issue(not to mention PLD being a very stable, altough low, DPS class which profits from raidbuffs, but is far less relient on them)
17 Second Prepull FoF? also mostly an issue with people and optimisation, the Regular opener(aka without prepulling FoF) is still good in most encounters, and only a marginal DPS loss.
NOW I dont say optimising is bad, i play PLD, and Dear god its a meme in my static how i HATE the 17 Second prepull and how i made everyone else hate it too but i still do it. But saying "there is a fundamental issue with the class" when the class plays fine and said issue only takes place if you try to optimize it to the ground?