Dancer really is bad.

Even with the buffs it gets, you just can't seem to do much if you get animation locked to death with honing dance or get stunned or super focused while you doing your limit break. The animation and the effect to apply takes so long that as soon they see it i'm stunned or super focused by the time the animation releases me thus killing me T_T

If the animation delay is going to stay on LB, I'd like to see at least the first charm mimic poly in that it can't be purified; or it should break guard like RPR. The other option is to increase its range, like Superflare. Otherwise, the opportunity cost is too often too high. Like you said, you're bound to get focused from people at 16y+ and decimated.

IMO, I'd take a potency nerf if they'd just admit their mistake and revert the range of GCD/Saber Dance back to 25y. If not, atleast make En Avante usable during Honing Dance. It was the ONLY reason tech step was effective pre 6.1. And all of this is just to make DNC more competitive in CC.. As of rn, it's almost useless in FL.

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Originally Posted by KickRox

If the animation delay is going to stay on LB, I'd like to see at least the first charm mimic poly in that it can't be purified; or it should break guard like RPR.

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But doesn't it already do that? You can't Purify charm or Guard before it cause the charm removes it

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Originally Posted by KickRox

If the animation delay is going to stay on LB, I'd like to see at least the first charm mimic poly in that it can't be purified; or it should break guard like RPR. The other option is to increase its range, like Superflare. Otherwise, the opportunity cost is too often too high. Like you said, you're bound to get focused from people at 16y+ and decimated.

IMO, I'd take a potency nerf if they'd just admit their mistake and revert the range of GCD/Saber Dance back to 25y. If not, atleast make En Avante usable during Honing Dance. It was the ONLY reason tech step was effective pre 6.1. And all of this is just to make DNC more competitive in CC.. As of rn, it's almost useless in FL.

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Contradance breaks Guard and cannot be purified. It's exactly the same as Hysteria, just forcing movement in an opposite direction.

DNC lives and dies by the quality of their teammates, and especially a *specific* teammate. If you can partner with a top tier MNK, for example, DNC is an absolute beast. But without party queuing, there's no way you can reliably guarantee that. DNC isn't bad so much as it's too risky to justify playing over BRD, which occupies a similar position and is substantially less reliant on having a top-tier melee DPS on your team.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Contradance breaks Guard and cannot be purified. It's exactly the same as Hysteria, just forcing movement in an opposite direction.

DNC lives and dies by the quality of their teammates, and especially a *specific* teammate. If you can partner with a top tier MNK, for example, DNC is an absolute beast. But without party queuing, there's no way you can reliably guarantee that. DNC isn't bad so much as it's too risky to justify playing over BRD, which occupies a similar position and is substantially less reliant on having a top-tier melee DPS on your team.

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It prevents guard, but in my experiences it's not breaking it. I've also purified it multiple times. It could be that I'm mistaken re: the former, and that I only remember purifying the second charm.

It's not that DNC doesn't have tools and can't be played well. In and of itself, DNC has strengths. But, those strengths fall considerably short when compared to that of BRD and MCH, thus creating an equally substantial imbalance vs having either of the other two in a party vs DNC.

I'm not makin' meatballs.. I agree with your and Nanne's points. Suffice it to say that there is undoubtedly room for small tweaks that could help bring DNC's value closer to BRD/MCH.

Maybe I'm mistaken. Honestly, I don't see DNC that often (thank god.) Honestly, I think the only person I've ever seen play DNC consistently is Siyin and I'm pretty sure they play literally every class. I guess they get bored easily, lol.

I think similar to Hysteria you can Purify during it but you won't remove the CC from you. It literally just wastes it and goes on a 30s cooldown :p

To be honest I am shocked it didn't get a pot buff when Reaper did. You really don't see them do much, and my heart goes out to them. Animation locks in PVP are super bad How many LB bars have been wasted across multiple jobs from self CCing I wonder. How did we end up with this weird thing where most of the instant Limit breaks are also the most impactful? I hope they buff DNC pot again next time.

Just did it again, another match, Got in the middle of a 5 man clumped up, popped limit break doing the team fight, by the time I start my Honing dance OH LOOK i'm already at 30% and can't use recoup cause i'm spinning in a circle. Went from 100% down to 30% within the time frame of using the limit break.

SIIIIGH.

15y is really awkward to use for a RANGED job. Even NIN's ranged skill are 25y...

I main as dancer. I have quite a few other jobs leveled up, but dancer is my favorite, I play it almost exclusively.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

Even with the buffs it gets, you just can't seem to do much if you get animation locked to death with honing dance or get stunned or super focused while you doing your limit break. The animation and the effect to apply takes so long that as soon they see it i'm stunned or super focused by the time the animation releases me thus killing me T_T

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This is the truth! The animations are killer when it comes to wasting time during a conflict.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

DNC lives and dies by the quality of their teammates, and especially a *specific* teammate. If you can partner with a top tier MNK, for example, DNC is an absolute beast.

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While it is so true that how well I do depends on the team.. It's not always necessarily a specific team mate as it is the team as a whole. If I have a team that works well together I can get in a lot of kills, assists, avoid dying, etc.. But when I turn around and I'm the only one anywhere near the crystal half the time.. well yeah.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

Even with the buffs it gets, you just can't seem to do much if you get animation locked to death with honing dance or get stunned or super focused while you doing your limit break. The animation and the effect to apply takes so long that as soon they see it i'm stunned or super focused by the time the animation releases me thus killing me T_T

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Dancer seems fine to me. It's just not solo queue friendly since the class demands great positioning from you and your partner. I dont like the 1 sec delay in the limit break, but I'm pretty certain that dancer is not the only class that has a delay on that.

I'm curious though. Are you looking for dancer to have some sort of crowd control outside their limit break?

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

Dancer seems fine to me. It's just not solo queue friendly since the class demands great positioning from you and your partner. I dont like the 1 sec delay in the limit break, but I'm pretty certain that dancer is not the only class that has a delay on that.

I'm curious though. Are you looking for dancer to have some sort of crowd control outside their limit break?

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I do semi good damage if I ramp up my damage, get a honing dance full stacks with a saber dance back to back but most of the time when I do that, (even with fan dance defensive buff) I just get focused and die, EVEN at clutch timing of team fights, if I go in and limit break to a honing dance I'm dead cause *one* person was left outside the limit break or worse, I get stunned right before the charm lands leaving me not able to follow up to keep them charmed cause apparently I GOTTA HIT THEM TO EXTEND THE CHARM DEBUFF like da fuk?!

Which btw, by the time the charm lands, you have only 1 second left to follow up or they leave your charm cause your character is too busy posing to follow up Or worse the server says "Nah bruh, you didn't hit them fast enough"

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

15y is really awkward to use for a RANGED job. Even NIN's ranged skill are 25y...

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^ This. Again, in an of it self, the actions look good on paper; but in practical situations, dnc falls short just about every time.

For example: A good NIN is going to slip behind enemy lines to pressure any ranged/caster. If it's a DNC, the ninja has a multitude of options from 5-25y including 2 stuns that do 8000 each (all potency includes Bunshin), a massive single target melee attack (16000+6000) in assassinate and a ninjutsu that can hit for 16000 from 25y either coming in or on the way out. With mug up, its 50k+ potency and 4 seconds on CC. Granted, with 4 charges of En Avante a DNC should be able to get in range, but between CC and the vulnerability this creates, it's difficult to mount any sort of counter of substance. With no form of CC outside of LB, DNC has essentially no tools other than dashing away to mitigate any of this. BRD & MCH have a multitude of CC (KB, Heavy, Stun, Bind & Silence) to at least slow the assault, but a DNC best tool outside of burning limit is to increase their defense 10%..?

My heart bleeds for people that mained DNC before 6.1. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of each job having their moment in the sun. I was a huge fan of Super Streetfighter 4's template of making tweaks every few months to make each character shine. But I don't every remember any one of them having such an overt & tangible deficit in their kit. I think SE could learn a thing or two about job tiers in PvP via the ssf4 model. Hell, at the least, make dance partner an actual asset again =/

I am pretty sure the 15y range is a bug and they are just too incompetent to catch it still.

In CC its really bad, but i found in Frontline its even worse, Not having any range on our attacks there and no defense to save us in melee is just and easy way to get pulled in and downed in a second or less. I even had that happening in CC the other day, every time i showed up someone would pull me out of place, stun me and i was done for.
I got 0 kills and 0 assists that match, granted the guy was also spamming it on everyone in my group, shouldn't a pull that interrupts and stuns have a cooldown? (I didn't even get a chance to see who was doing it or their job, just approach group, get pulled in and dead and half a second later the guy next to me the same.)

I really wish SE would actually test changes before releasing them, its clear they don't use a test server to try out the changes first. Small Indi company who haven't run the game for 13 years and all that.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

15y is really awkward to use for a RANGED job. Even NIN's ranged skill are 25y...

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The range is such a mood killer.

Also you can use a knockback attack on Honing Dance which is hilarious but also sad to see for what it provides and how you can't do anything else...

I really hope they look at dancer next. It just isn't fun to play. Like someone else said, you really do feel like a punching bag. Moves are all very punishable. Potency isn't there. Etc

Playing dancer is like playing blm except your spells require you to run into a death zone with a healthy dose of animation lock and no crowd control protection.

The job doesn't feel autonomous. It relies too much on having decent partners and so it's not a very fun job to play especially in casual where everyone just wants to have fun. I know it's a team based mode, but still, I feel pretty weak as a dancer compared to any other DPS I've played.

I think if they gave dancers a way to avoid being crowd controlled during their dances the job would feel better to play. Maybe even a damage reduction while they perform. Something to offset being in melee and aoe cleave range as a squishy class.

Would detach their mobility from their damage combo, if the potencies were to remain the same. If they buffed damage, then it would probably be a bit too much mobility.

I used to love Dancer in PVP, was super enjoyable. I absolutely cannot stand it now, between the low damage, horrific range and almost useless LB.

I also feel DNC is annoying to play.

Honing Dance/Honing Ovation:
-Honing Dance blocks you from using Purify and Guard. You need to interrupt it with Honing Ovation beforehand, but that makes using Purify a slow process.
You're also a CC magnet while you're spinning because of its visual FX. That just exacerbates the problem.

-I'm not sure because I didn't test it, but if you're stunned during Honing Dance, it persists can't be cancelled with Honing Ovation.
That means you're blocked from using Purify until it resolves by itself. I didn't test it though so I hope I'm proven wrong.

-It feels like a sluggish wet noodle storm. Doesn't deal much damage for the risk involved.

-Honing Ovation's animation is as long as Honing Dance itself. It also sounds like there's no hit SFX which feels like you're not hitting anything. It doesn't feel satisfying.

Curing Waltz:
-3y is so small they might as well be single-target heals.

Contradance:
-It feels like the first 2s don't do anything. You're also stuck in animation until 1s is left on Charmed.

-Because that LB also doesn't debuff or deal any damage, you are entirely reliant on your team to make it effective. It's like they designed it for Light Party CC.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

15y is really awkward to use for a RANGED job. Even NIN's ranged skill are 25y...

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Wow, 15 yards... It should be 25 across the board.

It's 15 because they get 4 charges of En Avant. You'd have to cut that in half (which also reduces their DPS) if you wanted them to have 25 yd range.

They need to make it so their LB is immune to CC while it's starting up. I had a WHM eat my LB twice in one game earlier today because of that. Makes me not wanna even bother with DNC anymore.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

It's 15 because they get 4 charges of En Avant. You'd have to cut that in half (which also reduces their DPS) if you wanted them to have 25 yd range.

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En Avant does nothing and any gap closer does more useful stuff than this discount gap closer

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

En Avant does nothing and any gap closer does more useful stuff than this discount gap closer

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Uh, what?

It's a 10yd dash that amps your next attack and enables Saber Dance, which is a 10k AOE or 15k single target and buffs you and your partner for 10 sec.

I feel like you don't actually know how to play Dancer.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Uh, what?

It's a 10yd dash that amps your next attack and enables Saber Dance, which is a 10k AOE or 15k single target and buffs you and your partner for 10 sec.

I feel like you don't actually know how to play Dancer.

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My impression with En Avant is, you use them to quickly dash near the enemy because of the 15y and use the whatever the procs it appears (Which IMO is lame)

And yes, I did play DNC on CC and Frontline as well, which still, lame :)

They were dominating hard for years in the old PVP system (at least in Frontlines) eventually SE will fix them to become a decent support DPS class.

So, some minor potency buffs means dancer remains awful in PvP. Range is still a problem - too squishy to have to be in close. LB is still very underwhelming.

DNC is fine. They were already fine. The potency buffs make them a little bit less reliant on teammates, which is good, but the core of the class is always going to be "partner with the best teammates." Step one of being a good DNC is moving Closed Position around to who is most suited to using the buff you're about to throw out. It's a 30yd cast with 1 sec cooldown, it is *not* intended to be "fire and forget." Same thing with SGE's Kardia. You're meant to spread that shit around.

I do think that DNC needs teamwork more than most classes, and I do think it has a fairly high skill floor. If that doesn't sound like something you want, go play BRD instead.