Duty Finder DPS Queue Time Solution

It's no secret that queue times in FFXIV, and mostly any MMO using the Trinity system, is directly linked to the availability of Tanks and Healers, while DPS have to just sit around and wait for them.
Is it that there are just not enough people playing Tanks and Healers? I don't think that's it.

The problem is that most people in FFXIV play MANY classes. And this, by its nature, means that you are likely leveling more DPS classes than tanks/healers.
This means that there will ALWAYS be a much higher amount of DPS in queue without enough tanks or healers to go around: because those tanks and healers are not "exclusively" playing tanks and healers. Most tanks and healers also play DPS, but a lot of DPS rarely/never play tank or healer.

So for example, lets say you are a tank main. And you usually play tank. But today you queue for DPS for some reason, perhaps you are just leveling a DPS today. Thats one less tank queueing for multiple roulettes today. Spread this likely event over hundreds of players and suddenly there are hundreds or thousands of potential tanks not in the queue. And its not the players fault, the system just forces you to choose only one role per duty per day.

This problem is then made even worse by the fact that most of the time when you ARE queuing for roulettes as a tank or healer, you are likely going with a premade group to carry some of your FC mates through the queue.

An easy solution to this is to add two NEW Duty roulettes to the daily system:
A Healer Roulette and a Tank Roulette.
These roulettes would have their own, separate rewards. And you can only queue for these SOLO. This would inject way more tanks and healers into the duty finder in a way that is rewarding for them; and it would likely reduce queue times for DPS at any level by a gigantic margin.
And because these roulettes are seperate alongside normal roulettes, it shouldn't INCREASE queue times for tanks or healers realistically, either. There would only be benefits by adding this into the game.

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Originally Posted by XRuecian

An easy solution to this is to add two NEW Duty roulettes to the daily system:
A Healer Roulette and a Tank Roulette.
These roulettes would have their own, separate rewards. And you can only queue for these SOLO. This would inject way more tanks and healers into the duty finder in a way that is rewarding for them; and it would likely reduce queue times for DPS at any level by a gigantic margin.
And because these roulettes are seperate alongside normal roulettes, it shouldn't INCREASE queue times for tanks or healers realistically, either. There would only be benefits by adding this into the game.

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How would this be effectively better than the Adventurer In Need bonus we already have? If you're thinking in terms of improved rewards, wouldn't it just be better to improve the rewards for Adventurer in Need?

Roulettes tend to match players either queueing for the same roulette or direct queueing for a duty covered by that roulette. If it's all healers or all tanks queuing into these special roulettes, it's taking those roles away from the other roulettes while making it difficult to do matchmaking due to the lack of DPS and tanks or healers in the same roulette queue.

As you said, it's not the reward or lack of one that's going to stop me from using a tank or healer in duty queues. It's because I want to be leveling one of my other jobs. If I'm only going after tomestones, I'll use whatever role is Adventurer in Need. But there's a lot more to the game than dungeon grinding and I'm far more likely to be doing that other content than sitting in a queue for a dungeon I've already done over and over.

Also, we're not limited to one role per duty per day. We can queue for a duty as many times as we want and mix up the roles we choose. What we don't get is the roulette bonus on subsequent replays of the duty the same day. We still get the standard rewards for completing the duty.

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Originally Posted by XRuecian

And you can only queue for these SOLO.

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All of the daily Duty Finder Roulettes should be solo(maybe duo to be generous) only anyways. There's too many people doing their dailies with a whole team of friends and while it is a MMO and you're supposed to make friends of course, it defeats the entire purpose of it. Too many people hide away in their own friend groups, refusing to interact with the rest of the game's population. And if we're being honest, this is probably one of the bigger issues. Healer/Tanks are very quick queues and many people want to queue with their healer/tank friends to take advantage of that. If we restricted roulettes to people queueing up in parties of two at most, that would ensure that at least one DPS spot isn't stolen by someone queueing with their healer/tank friend.

Agree with what the other person said though. Actual healer/tank queues are literally just a better adventurer in need. Unless you add some insane rewards to it, you won't increase the amount of healers/tanks queueing, you'll just increase the rewards people who play those roles regularly receive. And even assuming you make the rewards insane enough to make other people play those roles, you might just tilt the queues in the other direction.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

All of the daily Duty Finder Roulettes should be solo(maybe duo to be generous) only anyways. There's too many people doing their dailies with a whole team of friends and while it is a MMO and you're supposed to make friends of course, it defeats the entire purpose of it. Too many people hide away in their own friend groups, refusing to interact with the rest of the game's population.

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So people whine about not being able to do Crystalline Conflict with friends, and now you want to take away a very popular aspect of playing from groups of people? That all sounds like you have your own issues that you don't need to take out on everyone else. What's the harm in me and my partner doing roulettes together? That doesn't stop us from interacting with other people. Sounds like a you problem.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So people whine about not being able to do Crystalline Conflict with friends, and now you want to take away a very popular aspect of playing from groups of people? That all sounds like you have your own issues that you don't need to take out on everyone else. What's the harm in me and my partner doing roulettes together? That doesn't stop us from interacting with other people. Sounds like a you problem.

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Crystalline Conflict is different from daily roulettes.

Daily Roulettes are intended to help people by filling in party slots in exchange for offering a boosted reward. When you queue up as a full team, you're earning that reward while not doing the intended job.

But sure, jump the idea that I have "issues" and that I'm "taking them out on other people." Fantastic argument. I mean I main healers, I don't even have this issue, I just want to see fair treatment here.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Crystalline Conflict is different from daily roulettes.

Daily Roulettes are intended to help people by filling in party slots in exchange for offering a boosted reward. When you queue up as a full team, you're earning that reward while not doing the intended job.

But sure, jump the idea that I have "issues" and that I'm "taking them out on other people." Fantastic argument. I mean I main healers, I don't even have this issue, I just want to see fair treatment here.

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My point is that people complain that they're not allowed to play with friends, even in casual, and now you're advocating for further restrictions in an MMO. I think people cheesing their ilevels is a much greater blight on roulettes than people playing together like they're supposed to. I think you're also taking it to the very extreme and acting like everyone doing roulettes together is a fully 4- or 8-person party. I seriously doubt that happens as often as you think. I also don't think DPS queue times are exclusively affected by 2 or more people playing together.

The fair treatment is that you can group with a tank or healer friend as well. Unless you don't have friends, but that's not the game's fault.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

My point is that people complain that they're not allowed to play with friends, even in casual, and now you're advocating for further restrictions in an MMO. I think people cheesing their ilevels is a much greater blight on roulettes than people playing together like they're supposed to. I think you're also taking it to the very extreme and acting like everyone doing roulettes together is a fully 4- or 8-person party. I seriously doubt that happens as often as you think. I also don't think DPS queue times are exclusively affected by 2 or more people playing together.

The fair treatment is that you can group with a tank or healer friend as well. Unless you don't have friends, but that's not the game's fault.

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I don't think it needs to be restricted completely but I see no issues with restricting it to duo only.

And people cheesing their ilvls does nothing to affect the availability of positions in queues. You might not get the queue that you want, but lowering your ilvl is not going to do anything besides restrict that person's available options in the roulette. Also, I think you're taking it to the extreme by suggesting that there aren't a lot of people doing full DF Roulette queues. No, it's not everyone, of course it's not everyone and you know that. There certainly are a lot of people that do though.

And sure, people are free to group with others but it shouldn't be a necessity to speed up their own queues. Would you really tell newer players that don't have a lot of friends in-game yet that it's their problem? We're lucky that the rest of this community doesn't think like you do.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I don't think it needs to be restricted completely but I see no issues with restricting it to duo only.

And people cheesing their ilvls does nothing to affect the availability of positions in queues. You might not get the queue that you want, but lowering your ilvl is not going to do anything besides restrict that person's available options in the roulette. Also, I think you're taking it to the extreme by suggesting that there aren't a lot of people doing full DF Roulette queues. No, it's not everyone, of course it's not everyone and you know that. There certainly are a lot of people that do though.

And sure, people are free to group with others but it shouldn't be a necessity to speed up their own queues. Would you really tell newer players that don't have a lot of friends in-game yet that it's their problem? We're lucky that the rest of this community doesn't think like you do.

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I think you're taking it way too personally and may need to take a step back. You seem to be getting offended because I said this is an MMO and people play with others, often friends. Saying "you not having friends is not the game's fault" is not a "we're lucky that the rest of this community doesn't think like you do" kind of statement. You're clearly just oversensitive. Don't take it out on me by acting like it's such an extreme thing to say that people play multiplayer games with friends.

Anyway, people cheesing their ilevels affects people's ability to get into duties at all. You say that roulettes are for filling spots, correct? So why does it take so long for me to get into level 60/70/80 alliance raids as literally any job? Because people are forcing CT raids by lowering their ilevel. Roulettes aren't about you getting in quickly, it's about you filling in slots to help other people clear content, isn't it? So I'll reiterate my point. Since you agree that roulettes are for filling in spots in duties in order to allow others to complete them and you get a bonus for helping, then people cheesing their ilevels is a greater detriment to the roulettes as a whole than people grouping together.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I don't think it needs to be restricted completely but I see no issues with restricting it to duo only.

And people cheesing their ilvls does nothing to affect the availability of positions in queues. You might not get the queue that you want, but lowering your ilvl is not going to do anything besides restrict that person's available options in the roulette. Also, I think you're taking it to the extreme by suggesting that there aren't a lot of people doing full DF Roulette queues. No, it's not everyone, of course it's not everyone and you know that. There certainly are a lot of people that do though.

And sure, people are free to group with others but it shouldn't be a necessity to speed up their own queues. Would you really tell newer players that don't have a lot of friends in-game yet that it's their problem? We're lucky that the rest of this community doesn't think like you do.

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Have more then 1 friend? Want to play with FC? No roulettes for you. Why do you think this is a good idea? Are you that mad because you waited 30 mins on a roulette as a dps at 3 am?

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Have more then 1 friend? Want to play with FC? No roulettes for you. Why do you think this is a good idea? Are you that mad because you waited 30 mins on a roulette as a dps at 3 am?

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"Are you that mad..."

And you immediately invalidated any potential argument you might have had. I figured out by the quotes in the other person's signature that they were just a proud troll. Didn't realize these entire forums were infested with them.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I think you're taking it way too personally and may need to take a step back. You seem to be getting offended because I said this is an MMO and people play with others, often friends. Saying "you not having friends is not the game's fault" is not a "we're lucky that the rest of this community doesn't think like you do" kind of statement. You're clearly just oversensitive. Don't take it out on me by acting like it's such an extreme thing to say that people play multiplayer games with friends.

Anyway, people cheesing their ilevels affects people's ability to get into duties at all. You say that roulettes are for filling spots, correct? So why does it take so long for me to get into level 60/70/80 alliance raids as literally any job? Because people are forcing CT raids by lowering their ilevel. Roulettes aren't about you getting in quickly, it's about you filling in slots to help other people clear content, isn't it? So I'll reiterate my point. Since you agree that roulettes are for filling in spots in duties in order to allow others to complete them and you get a bonus for helping, then people cheesing their ilevels is a greater detriment to the roulettes as a whole than people grouping together.

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Okay, so you're right about the ilevel manipulators being a detriment. Isn't this still a heavy case of what-aboutism? You're deflecting from my point, trying to say there are other more severe issues out there and that it's not relevant, when it really is.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

"Are you that mad..."

And you immediately invalidated any potential argument you might have had. I figured out by the quotes in the other person's signature that they were just a proud troll. Didn't realize these entire forums were infested with them.



Okay, so you're right about the ilevel manipulators being a detriment. Isn't this still a heavy case of what-aboutism? You're deflecting from my point, trying to say there are other more severe issues out there and that it's not relevant, when it really is.

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LOL. Says the troll themselves. You know what: let's make the game SOLO only. No groups. All content scaled to playing alone. No more queues!

You still failed completely to explain how that would help anyone besides being something YOU want

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Originally Posted by BRVV

LOL. Says the troll themselves. You know what: let's make the game SOLO only. No groups. All content scaled to playing alone. No more queues!

You still failed completely to explain how that would help anyone besides being something YOU want

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It's funny how you insist on putting words into my mouth.

The only thing that would change is that DF Roulettes would be duo only. Instead you're jumping to the extreme, "OMG she's saying make the entire game solo only."

I've already explained how it would help DPS queues, and queues in general. Scroll up and quit being obstinate :)

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

It's funny how you insist on putting words into my mouth.

The only thing that would change is that DF Roulettes would be duo only. Instead you're jumping to the extreme, "OMG she's saying make the entire game solo only."

I've already explained how it would help DPS queues, and queues in general. Scroll up and quit being obstinate :)

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Funny how much you assume and misread. But looking at your other posts: it's always the others right?

Non full parties match up with others while a full party will not. This is your entire point. What about players that que with npcs? What about players that ONLY play in full parties? Those will NOT necessarily convert to a limited que with only 2 players max. Your ASSUMING people will just accept it.

Come on guys, stop being intellectually dishonest.

The roulettes are designed to fill in groups for people who are queuing for a specific dungeon. The whole entire point is so I don't have to wait for 3 other people to queue into specifically Cutter's Cry since it fills in with people running roulettes. Doing a full party roulette is invalidating the reasons why roulettes were created and why you're given rewards to run it. Clearly it's not a big issue otherwise they would have already done something about it. Limiting it to solo/duos would "fix" the issue that the OP brought up by throwing more people into the queue. Let's not act like you don't realize all of this, and let's not think that because someone mentioned it SE is going to do it now. If they cared about full party roulette runners, they wouldn't have allowed you to limit the dungeons based on the lowest player in the party.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

How would this be effectively better than the Adventurer In Need bonus we already have?

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TBF, the AiN bonus is pretty meh outside of Leveling and...Alliance ? I think (whichever ones give the clusters). The better way of handling this would definitely be to increase the AiN bonus though.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Okay, so you're right about the ilevel manipulators being a detriment. Isn't this still a heavy case of what-aboutism? You're deflecting from my point, trying to say there are other more severe issues out there and that it's not relevant, when it really is.

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No, it's not "what-aboutism". It's saying that people playing together in a massive multiplayer online game is not a detriment, whereas actual exploits of the game system are.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Funny how much you assume and misread. But looking at your other posts: it's always the others right?

Non full parties match up with others while a full party will not. This is your entire point. What about players that que with npcs? What about players that ONLY play in full parties? Those will NOT necessarily convert to a limited que with only 2 players max. Your ASSUMING people will just accept it.

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LeonKeyh's post says it nicely. Also I find it funny how you have to dig through my post history in order to find something else to attack me over.

But to continue on, yes obviously people that queue with trusts aren't going to be affected, why would they? This only pertains to DF Roulette and you can't run roulette with NPCs. You should know that, but then again you're grasping at straws.

I would genuinely love to reach an agreement with you, but you're clearly not looking for that.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

LeonKeyh's post says it nicely. Also I find it funny how you have to dig through my post history in order to find something else to attack me over.

But to continue on, yes obviously people that queue with trusts aren't going to be affected, why would they? This only pertains to DF Roulette and you can't run roulette with NPCs. You should know that, but then again you're grasping at straws.

I would genuinely love to reach an agreement with you, but you're clearly not looking for that.

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In none of your posts are you actually looking for that. You spit out your opinion, don't consider other viewpoints and that's it. This is over. I'm putting you on ignore. Everyone on this forum should do that. You just attack and ignore feedback. Hope you have fun in your solitude with that attitude.

Oh and added on: You YET AGAIN misread me. Are you having trouble reading? I said people who RUN WITH NPCs are not going to get lower YOUR que because yes YOU NEVER GET MATCHED WITH THEM. If your argument is "people should que with a full party because than i have to wait longer" we might also consider these solo players. Yes they don't do the roulettes... but geez why stop at them? Why SPECIFICALLY limit roulettes for full parties? So YOU have to wait less?

If all roulettes are just to fill people looking for members than does that mean if all do roulettes no one will get matched because all are waiting to be filled in? If yes than that's stupid. If not than i guess it failed to do what it was supposed to do. There are many long time players running the roulettes and not any specific dungeons. It keeps people logging in.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

All of the daily Duty Finder Roulettes should be solo(maybe duo to be generous) only anyways. There's too many people doing their dailies with a whole team of friends and while it is a MMO and you're supposed to make friends of course, it defeats the entire purpose of it. Too many people hide away in their own friend groups, refusing to interact with the rest of the game's population. And if we're being honest, this is probably one of the bigger issues. Healer/Tanks are very quick queues and many people want to queue with their healer/tank friends to take advantage of that. If we restricted roulettes to people queueing up in parties of two at most, that would ensure that at least one DPS spot isn't stolen by someone queueing with their healer/tank friend.

Agree with what the other person said though. Actual healer/tank queues are literally just a better adventurer in need. Unless you add some insane rewards to it, you won't increase the amount of healers/tanks queueing, you'll just increase the rewards people who play those roles regularly receive. And even assuming you make the rewards insane enough to make other people play those roles, you might just tilt the queues in the other direction.

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It sounds like what you're saying is "I can't make friends to do content with me so you need to force other players to abandon their friends so people will fill queues for my benefit".

No.

The purpose of a MMO isn't to make friends. It's to play with others, including your friends. Games tend to build their populations by friends recruiting friends to come play with them. Prevent friends from playing with friends and you end up with declining populations, making the problem worse.

Edit: I probably should add that I can't think any of friends I made in the game while doing roulettes. I made friends by meeting people my other friends knew. I made friends being part of an active FC. I made friends by being a generally helpful person when I ran into someone looking for help. I made friends doing FATE farms. I made friends by being active in the Hunt community.

It's the extended or repeat experiences that lead to friends, not a 10 minute roulette.

While NekoMataMata's solution would likely reduce queue times at least in the short term, I don't think they would be reduced enough to outweigh the cons of the solution.

1. A group of 4 friends who are playing in the appropriate role split of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 DPS aren't going to split up to do the roulettes. They'll find something else to do together.

2. A group of 3 friends would have to have one of them sit out or do a separate queue themselves. This splits up groups of friends and would likely push those friends to do something else that they can do together instead of the roulette.

So while in the short term it may reduce queues, it may in the long term increase queues as friendships develop and more people drop out of doing roulettes as often so that they can play with their group of friends.

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Originally Posted by XRuecian

The problem is that most people in FFXIV play MANY classes. And this, by its nature, means that you are likely leveling more DPS classes than tanks/healers.
This means that there will ALWAYS be a much higher amount of DPS in queue without enough tanks or healers to go around: because those tanks and healers are not "exclusively" playing tanks and healers. Most tanks and healers also play DPS, but a lot of DPS rarely/never play tank or healer.

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Well, I need my daily / weekly tomestones, but I can only receive those on my main which is a DPS class, so I can't jump in on a healer or tank class for faster queue times. But to be fair, on regular hours queue time for DPS is 7-10 minutes for roulettes. Which I think is not really that big of a deal. I can do other stuff in the meantime like hunts, crafts or daily rep.

I don't have any problem's with queue times as a DPS.
I level them either with frontline, beast tribes, khloes wounderus tales or when a friend is going to queue in as a tank/healer.

Also, for normal raids, trails, alliance raids you often have DPS in need, so i do these dailys with a DPS.

I don't see a real problem with queue times as long as you play on the usual active time and not 4am.

Also, trusts are a option now.

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Originally Posted by XRuecian

It's no secret that queue times in FFXIV, and mostly any MMO using the Trinity system, is directly linked to the availability of Tanks and Healers, while DPS have to just sit around and wait for them.
Is it that there are just not enough people playing Tanks and Healers? I don't think that's it.

The problem is that most people in FFXIV play MANY classes. And this, by its nature, means that you are likely leveling more DPS classes than tanks/healers.
This means that there will ALWAYS be a much higher amount of DPS in queue without enough tanks or healers to go around: because those tanks and healers are not "exclusively" playing tanks and healers. Most tanks and healers also play DPS, but a lot of DPS rarely/never play tank or healer.

So for example, lets say you are a tank main. And you usually play tank. But today you queue for DPS for some reason, perhaps you are just leveling a DPS today. Thats one less tank queueing for multiple roulettes today. Spread this likely event over hundreds of players and suddenly there are hundreds or thousands of potential tanks not in the queue. And its not the players fault, the system just forces you to choose only one role per duty per day.

This problem is then made even worse by the fact that most of the time when you ARE queuing for roulettes as a tank or healer, you are likely going with a premade group to carry some of your FC mates through the queue.

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You're leaving out another group: tanks and healers who want the most Tomestone/hour. It's more efficient for me to do an Expert Roulette once and then just spam the easiest dungeon that sits within that Expert Roulette than it would be do to the other Roulettes.

I do this, and I don't touch the other roulettes unless I need something from them. Even though I can hop on healer and basically have a negative queue for almost all of the roulettes, the 20 Tomestones and paltry gil cannot beat a 16 minute or less trip through Smileton.

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Originally Posted by XRuecian

An easy solution to this is to add two NEW Duty roulettes to the daily system:
A Healer Roulette and a Tank Roulette.
These roulettes would have their own, separate rewards. And you can only queue for these SOLO. This would inject way more tanks and healers into the duty finder in a way that is rewarding for them; and it would likely reduce queue times for DPS at any level by a gigantic margin.
And because these roulettes are seperate alongside normal roulettes, it shouldn't INCREASE queue times for tanks or healers realistically, either. There would only be benefits by adding this into the game.

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You would have to make the awards greater than what Expert gives in order for people to run this roulette. This includes the daily award.

The roulettes have to be worth it for me to babysit new and inexperienced DPS in content I am so tired of doing. I cannot do another Vault, Keeper of the Lake, Amaurot, etc. Even Zot got to a point of being redundant, and don't get me started on Mom's Spaghetti (Level 85 and people still can't figure out opposite color mechanics?).