RMT in housing...

I just wanted to raise awareness that some people are seemingly putting as many bids on houses as they want with multiple accounts or possibly hacking, I'm not sure, with the incentive of selling the account for real money.

I have a strong feeling that many of these houses with an ungodly number of bids on them are duped.

Any proof for your BS?

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Originally Posted by CirenInus

I just wanted to raise awareness that some people are seemingly putting as many bids on houses as they want with multiple accounts or possibly hacking, I'm not sure, with the incentive of selling the account for real money.

I have a strong feeling that many of these houses with an ungodly number of bids on them are duped.

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There's also a large number of players that want houses, with housing being limited in number. Now that clicking on placards is no longer a thing, more people are incentivized to try to obtain housing for themselves, whether personal or for a FC - just a simple click and go. I'm sure this will increase the amount of players trying to get a house comparatively to before.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

Any proof for your BS?

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Hard evidence? Obviously not. But there are several braggarts on the housing discord admitting they have billions of Gil worth of active bids and others bragging about having multiple accounts. These are just a few people talking about it. How many aren’t?

What would be the incentive of going through all of that trouble and paying for multiple accounts? Real money seems like the obvious reason…

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Originally Posted by CirenInus

Hard evidence? Obviously not. But there are several braggarts on the housing discord admitting they have billions of Gil worth of active bids and others bragging about having multiple accounts. These are just a few people talking about it. How many aren’t?

What would be the incentive of going through all of that trouble and paying for multiple accounts? Real money seems like the obvious reason…

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Selling a house for gil isn't RMT (though it's still not allowed if the house was purchased with intent to resell for profit).

There's always the chance the gil received from the sale could later be sold for real money, of course. But it could also end up used for other things, like buying consumables and materia for a raid static.

It's doubtful that there's any sort of hacking going on that will allow players to purchase than one entry per character. There are plenty of loopholes that allow multiple entries per account (as long as each entry is on a different character) and players are allowed to own more than one service account so while there are those who may find such actions morally questionable, they aren't necessarily a ToS violation. It's going to take some times to see how the system plays out and what sort of abuses players continue to get away with.

Cope and seeth boys, cope and seeth

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Originally Posted by IvoryHawk

Cope and seeth boys, cope and seeth

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While they are probably wrong about the bids and it's people just BSing to dissuade others from bidding. There is absolutely going to be issues of RMT coming into play in the FC only wards and this is totally on SEs stubborn refusal to rectify their mistakes.

I guarantee, shell FCs have been made and matured to buy up plots in the FC only wards. Those plots will absolutely be marketed off illicitly for RMT and some players that are so desperate for a house will buy into it.

The RMT housing issue is going to happen again quite simply, because when you make something desirable and yet difficult to obtain due to failures to listen to the playerbase about the supply/demand being greatly skewed, someone is going to take advantage of that situation and try to make a real life buck from it.

It is not legal to sell a house above the value of what it was worth when bought the plot, you can simple report someone for it as well, and should always be done if so.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

It is not legal to sell a house above the value of what it was worth when bought the plot, you can simple report someone for it as well, and should always be done if so.

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I am not trying to be argumentative, but where is this stated by SE?

As far as reporting any pixelated real estate shadiness, SE does not even bat an eye at those reports. The same agents, if you will, have been at it over and over again- and reported and nothing ever happens.

Abuse of the housing system in this game is handled the same way SE handles this forum. They ignore it.

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Originally Posted by Kyssa

I am not trying to be argumentative, but where is this stated by SE?

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It's listed under prohibited activity: "Purchasing a plot of land with the intent to resell it."

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

It's listed under prohibited activity: "Purchasing a plot of land with the intent to resell it."

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

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Would you call people who gave up the game after a years and want to get some gil back which they have invested in housing (in case they got the motivation for playing again years/addons later)
also "intent to resell"? Then I have to disappoint you with your TOS argument. That doesnt fall under intent. Selling Houses for Gil will always be possible and there are cases in which you can
wink with the toilet paper TOS and nothing will happen. It will be a case by case (if its even reported anyway) decision. Its just written this vaguely to cover up all cases which is pretty standard in any TOS.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

Would you call people who gave up the game after a years and want to get some gil back which they have invested in housing (in case they got the motivation for playing again years/addons later)
also "intent to resell"? Then I have to disappoint you with your TOS argument. That doesnt fall under intent. Selling Houses for Gil will always be possible and there are cases in which you can
wink with the toilet paper TOS and nothing will happen. It will be a case by case (if its even reported anyway) decision. Its just written this vaguely to cover up all cases which is pretty standard in any TOS.

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Up to you to interpret it however you wish with whatever scenario you wish to muster up, be it current or future intent to resell it base on circumstances. I feel that all plots of land when relinquished should go back to the system for the next plot owner and not be allowed to line anyone's pockets for a system to work fairly. If these excuses were actually the case, then PF would be full of houses for resell. Rarely if ever these days do you see one in PF. Instead players with full intent decided to take another avenue and do it outside the game through a discord channel or reddit. So yeah just like with many other things against ToS, players take a different more questionable approach that goes beyond SE's reach.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

It's listed under prohibited activity: "Purchasing a plot of land with the intent to resell it."

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

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That's going to be a part of the problem - proving the original purchase was made with the intent to resell.

If a FC and its house sit mainly dormant between the time of house purchase and change of FC Master (or only activity is to add a new member that becomes FC Master after the 30 day wait), then that's a strong case for intent to resell.

If it's been an active FC for several months/years after purchase with the house getting used, then there's no evidence the purchase was made with the intent to resell.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

Up to you to interpret it however you wish with whatever scenario you wish to muster up, be it current or future intent to resell it base on circumstances. I feel that all plots of land when relinquished should go back to the system for the next plot owner and not be allowed to line anyone's pockets for a system to work fairly. If these excuses were actually the case, then PF would be full of houses for resell. Rarely if ever these days do you see one in PF. Instead players with full intent decided to take another avenue and do it outside the game through a discord channel or reddit. So yeah just like with many other things against ToS, players take a different more questionable approach that goes beyond SE's reach.

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PF isn't currently full of houses for resell because it's too hard to get a house and established FCs aren't interested in selling (it's a non-issue in the case of personal houses now that relocation doesn't bypass the lottery or purchase timer). We talk about shell FCs being a problem for resale but the vast majority of them are created for personal use, not for resale purposes.

Once the new NA and EU worlds are added and we're about 30 days out from when their housing will open, you'll probably start seeing some listings in PF again from FCs that want to transfer to the new worlds and need to do it in advance of housing opening dates. SE sees nothing wrong with players selling established FCs to other players to save them some effort. The objection is creating a FC solely to purchase houses for resale.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

PF isn't currently full of houses for resell because it's too hard to get a house and established FCs aren't interested in selling (it's a non-issue in the case of personal houses now that relocation doesn't bypass the lottery or purchase timer). We talk about shell FCs being a problem for resale but the vast majority of them are created for personal use, not for resale purposes.

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It's a big problem with the shell FC's we all know. There is a lot used as personal housing too, these days. There will be little left if it kept going at this rate. I've noticed many shell FC's decorate their yards and once you go on the inside, (if you can get access) it's completely empty. I've seen tons of houses like that, that leave me puzzled by what their intent really is. Are they using the FC houses as as initially intended by the game or ranking it up for possible resell in the future for copious amount of profit, on some third party website or discord house buying channel? You're right it's hard to prove it without a doubt, this is why SE needs to close the big gaps, and loopholes of buying of FC's as personal housing. Make it impossible for an FC house to be bought for personal use period. It's unfair to those trying to run a legitimate FC and are in need of a place for their community of members when they have to compete with the shell FC buyers. Make personal housing more available, than less available with very few wards open to personal plot buying.

In their defense, when I first got my current plot the yard was decorated the same day. I had a vision on how to decorate it and it was fairly easy. It took slightly over a month for me to tackle my interior. Interior decorating to me was not only more challenging, but I had to think for a long time how I wanted to utilize my space.

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Originally Posted by Kyssa

I am not trying to be argumentative, but where is this stated by SE?

As far as reporting any pixelated real estate shadiness, SE does not even bat an eye at those reports. The same agents, if you will, have been at it over and over again- and reported and nothing ever happens.

Abuse of the housing system in this game is handled the same way SE handles this forum. They ignore it.

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There is history of people having been called in for jail for real estate businesses, probably mostly seen in the HW days, if you sell for more value than it is worth = you can get into trouble as it is to just cover the losses of said plot.

It say clearly in the ToS to exploit to own advantage in eg. situations like this is prohibited activity, and repeated offense can lead towards actions.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

It is not legal to sell a house above the value of what it was worth when bought the plot, you can simple report someone for it as well, and should always be done if so.

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there's a housing discord intended for buying FC houses higher than listed- as in, the buyers pay more than what the plot actually goes for- This is done by buying FC houses. The buyer is added to the FC then the deposit of gil is made into an FC chest, seller disbands & FC house goes to buyer- it's still done like this & the lottery did not fix this
It just doesn't work for private houses anymore

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

There is history of people having been called in for jail for real estate businesses, probably mostly seen in the HW days, if you sell for more value than it is worth = you can get into trouble as it is to just cover the losses of said plot.

It say clearly in the ToS to exploit to own advantage in eg. situations like this is prohibited activity, and repeated offense can lead towards actions.

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I know it's supposedly against the rules to purchase with the intent to sell- but it gives no distinction on how much gil would make that set off bells, nor does it state "more than the plot cost".

Look, I'm on your side here and have sent in numerous complaints (more than I can even count) over my year in this game, a bunch regarding the same players- and guess what I saw all the way up until lottery became the new thing? The same people, over and over again. Hell, I've seen people brag, very openly in /say about doing this. Know what those players are doing today? Peddling their ill-begotten plots over Discord, offering to "wait the 30 days", and rolling in their gil. I have never seen one bit of evidence that will convince me that these people are actually held to task for what they're doing.

If you look in my post history, you'll see I posted a screenshot of someone selling an Empy plot a few weeks back- on one of those Discords that peddles pixel homes to players that have the gil to spend and want to avoid the frustration that this poorly implemented system results in.

I've played many games in my time. I was there when UO launched (1997) and got and lost numerous houses there, and honestly, even their antiquated housing system is better than this, from placing, to maintaining, to decorating, to even trading. Was there for Rift launch too, and their instanced housing is by far, heads and shoulders above this system.

This system is the worst I've seen in my 25 years of gaming. If the devs were serious about punishing these ppl, they know where to find them. I've noted the sites and Discords in my tickets/form reports on housing flippers and I'm sure others have too. They simply do not care to do so because these ppl bring in money and SE is not going to smack away a white whale and call it a nuisance. Bottom line is they want the revenue these ppl bring in and we are all going to suffer for it until they either fix this system or stand behind their own policies and ban these people.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

there's a housing discord intended for buying FC houses higher than listed- as in, the buyers pay more than what the plot actually goes for- This is done by buying FC houses. The buyer is added to the FC then the deposit of gil is made into an FC chest, seller disbands & FC house goes to buyer- it's still done like this & the lottery did not fix this
It just doesn't work for private houses anymore

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There are multiple Discords offering this "service" and other Discords that while they don't offer the "service", will point folks in the directions to those that do and will turn their head to this activity so long as they "contribute" (via plot notification, player help assistance, etc) to their Discord community.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

...The buyer is added to the FC then the deposit of gil is made into an FC chest, seller disbands & FC house goes to buyer...

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Well no; If the seller disbands the FC, or even just leaves it before the month is up, then the house just explodes and is gone. The plot becomes empty and available for anyone in the next round.

The seller has to remain in the FC for 30 days now, then pass lead, then leave. A month before the sale concludes is a lot of time to scam the buyer.

And that risk seems to be clearly shown in the substantial drop in sales now. Where there were 5 or 6 a day before, now there is one every 5 to 10 days, and they are just not selling.