MCH: How to fix flamethrower

If a target has Bioblaster DoT, Flamethrower Applies a secondary DoT burn.

There we go, that pushes flamethrower from 800p to 1500p over its duration and is actually useable.

Wow I'm a genius at class design.

well i don't think you're the only one that had that idea lol, and besides i wouldn't want to use flamethrower and immediately cancel its channel just to get the DoT. I think the fun part of using flamethrower is actually seeing the flames goes back and forth. so i think a good way to implement that would be the longer the channel, the longer the dot duration, higher dmg over time, and vise versa if shorter the channel shorter the dot duration and lower damage over time.

It's a solid idea, since it's like you're coating the enemy in some volatile fluid, then igniting it. Simple and intuitive combo gameplay. And helps the disjointed MCH kit actually have some internal logic and interaction. And fits the Job's "gadgeteer" concept well. And adds to the list of potential war crimes that the WOL has engaged in.

Personally, I'd also like to see the 'fragile butterfly' channel, that breaks if you breathe wrong, changed. These ultra-fragile actions like Flamethrower and Ten Chi Jin that the devs were obsessed with in Stormblood feel awful to me, especially something that seems like it should be as heavy and grungy as I'd imagine a steampunk-esque flamethrower. You should be able to chase people down like a TF2 Pyro, if you're so inclined.

...but... the FFXIV code seems allergic to channeled casts, so I guess that's hopeless. Maybe the best alternative is just to convert Flamethrower into an autonomous turret. Then it's an unambiguous DPS gain, no longer has to fight with your GCDs for dominance, and can even see use in single-target to add some interest to the stale ST rotation. And, it helps flesh out that 'gadgeteer' concept further.

...but... the problem with that, is probably that the FFXIV engine simply can't handle having both a Turret and the deeply-beloved Queen Automaton active simultaneously, just like it can't have Summoner Carbuncle and Primals/Demis active simultaneously. So... uh...

...wow, both this Job, and this game engine, are really designed into a corner.

A channeled cast is, for all intents and purposes, just a per-second ticking field effect. The problem is that they, I guess, don't want to spend the server resources on recalculating it per tick/instance as they would with separate but frequent AoE attacks. Perhaps, then, we could just rework Flamethrower into the later. Put it on a 1-second, auto-casting GCD; if you queue another skill in that time, it will end Flamethrower and be used instead. Can also end it more deliberately by just re-pressing Flamethrower.

If necessary for its aesthetic, apply a 1-second Heavy upon each use of Flamethrower or perhaps even lock out oGCD usage until Flamethrower has been ended. Voila. Mobile Flamethrower that still feels like a flamethrower.

@Eorzean
Personally, I'd prefer Flamethrower fight for uptime, rather than it just being an over-one's-normal-rotation, fire-and-forget AoE action. I'd just like it to be strong enough to be worth using. That could be done by/despite locking its potency behind Bioblaster as the OP suggested, sure. But it could also be done by just simply increasing its damage (and allowing it to be used on the move).

You have no idea how manny times I saw this idea popping here and there.
I'm actually curious from where it does come from.

This idea doesn't change the fact that Flamethrower feels bad to use and is weirdly coded.
Flamethrower should be a powerful ability on its own.

Second problem, you would never use bio blaster without Flamethrower and vice-versa, like how Overheat and Rapidfire were always paired together.
If you removed Flamethrower and bumped bio blaster potency, you would achieve the same result but with a better design.
You could even go further, separate Bio Blaster and Drill, make BB a 60s and adjust the potency.

If your design always combine the 2 same abilities, merge them.

Instead of just adding another DoT, I like the idea of flamethrower dealing additional damage if bio blaster is already applied. Although, if the potency is too high then you'll end up doing the combo over using drill against single target.

I just want them to increase the potency so that it's the strongest skill to use after bio blaster is on cooldown. Also, allow us to move when channeling it since it seems to come with a built in Provoke for enemy AoE. PvP has shown that it's possible to have abilities that can be channeled while moving, so they can incorporate that in PvE scenarios as well. And let it generate like 5 heat per second; we are shooting fire, you know.

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Originally Posted by Espon

Instead of just adding another DoT, I like the idea of flamethrower dealing additional damage if bio blaster is already applied. Although, if the potency is too high then you'll end up doing the combo over using drill against single target.

I just want them to increase the potency so that it's the strongest skill to use after bio blaster is on cooldown. Also, allow us to move when channeling it since it seems to come with a built in Provoke for enemy AoE. PvP has shown that it's possible to have abilities that can be channeled while moving, so they can incorporate that in PvE scenarios as well. And let it generate like 5 heat per second; we are shooting fire, you know.

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Flamethrower do a 80 Potency damage per second in a 10 sec duration, which means 200 Potency per 2.5 GCD. This isn't really much, and it's worse than the Auto Crossbow that have a Potency of 140 every 1.5 sec (Math take this up to 233 Potency per 2.5 GCD, which is 15% Stronger) and don't lock you away from a possible Ricochet usage in between.

Bio Blaster only do a total of 300 Potency AoE, and you have to wait 15 sec in order to make it really effective.

Just to remind you something. Bioblaster and Flamethrower are pretty much useless on Boss. Boss that can summon a whole bunch of add aren't that numerous, and they die fast enough that the Auto Crossbow do the work all alone (+ Chainsaw, which deal a fair amount of damage AoE and can be used with Reassemble).

Channeling a spell for 10 second feel really bad. One option can be this : make Bioblaster and Flamethrower combo with Scattergun. Allowing one of these 3 to generate Battery as well.

Considering the actual Issue with MCH DPS, I know some people desire more tool against single target, in order to make the MCH great on it's own. Putting Marksman's Spite like "Mug" while replacing Flamethrower can be effective in my opinion. Bioblaster will not have many use too, but it can be rebuild into a utility tool for the team (Like a HoT, why not ? You can spread poison, with can't you spread Potion ?)

Well first you need to up the potency because it's weaker than Shattershot in it's current state.

But a true fix would make Flamethrower your Heat Gauge and make Auto Crossbow into an AoE Turret for Energy gauge.

As far as channeled casting, it's fine if you make it risk worth reward. Take DNC's Improv for example. Is it really worth eating an AoE for a Max Barrier and Regen buff? Same with Flamethrower. I would be nice if FT applied some kind of stacking Defense Debuff to the targets where is a stack would be a 2.5% with a max of 4 stacks.

But this is SE and everything is fine so back to wishful thinking.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

...but... the FFXIV code seems allergic to channeled casts, so I guess that's hopeless. Maybe the best alternative is just to convert Flamethrower into an autonomous turret. Then it's an unambiguous DPS gain, no longer has to fight with your GCDs for dominance, and can even see use in single-target to add some interest to the stale ST rotation. And, it helps flesh out that 'gadgeteer' concept further.

...but... the problem with that, is probably that the FFXIV engine simply can't handle having both a Turret and the deeply-beloved Queen Automaton active simultaneously, just like it can't have Summoner Carbuncle and Primals/Demis active simultaneously. So... uh...

...wow, both this Job, and this game engine, are really designed into a corner.

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The technology is clearly there as proven by PVP Gunbreaker's limit break.

Make it a channeled ability that can be used while moving, generate heat and double or triple it's potency. Also give synergy with Bioblaster.

Skill is now better.

Let's be clear; Flamethrower is an absolutely garbage ability. The fact that it is our Level 70 "capstone ability" is a complete insult.
But Flamethrower is more a symptom of the problem than an anything. Fixing Flamethrower / making MCH AOE slightly better won't suddenly fix the job; but it certainly is telling that this ability has been left in this state for so long.

We can spitball ideas all day (a FLAMETHROWER not generating HEAT? CMON), but it won't matter at all if SE is still stuck in their "there isn't much we can change with MCH / the job is basically complete" views that they sprouted during the Endwalker pre-release tour, despite the the consensus between pretty much all FFXIV regional communities.

EDIT: Sorry for the "doom-posting" but man the handling of MCH has been frustrating.

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Originally Posted by jrollins89

Let's be clear; Flamethrower is an absolutely garbage ability. The fact that it is our Level 70 "capstone ability" is a complete insult.
But Flamethrower is more a symptom of the problem than an anything. Fixing Flamethrower / making MCH AOE slightly better won't suddenly fix the job; but it certainly is telling that this ability (which is almost universally agreed to be terrible) has been left in this state for so long.

We can spitball ideas all day (a FLAMETHROWER not generating HEAT? CMON), but it won't matter at all if SE is still stuck in their "there isn't much we can change with MCH / the job is basically complete" views that they sprouted during the Endwalker pre-release tour, despite the the consensus between pretty much all FFXIV regional communities.

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Various ideas:

The Reaper Flamethrower
Make Flamethrower consume 50 heat for a Reaper like phase where your 1 2 3 are changed to "Flamethrower buttons".
You don't get possessed by an avatar, simply by the urge of using a bigger gun.

The Doom Flamethrower (Flame Belch)
Flamethrower is now utility, no damage and debuff ennemies in front of you.
You and every other player character attacking this ennemy will get a stackable shield.

The Barrel Stabilizer Flamethrower
Flamethrower is now 2 charges, don't need a target and grant 25 heat on use.
Bonus point, you can now remove Barrel Stabilizer and use it as a new animation for Reassemble.

The Flamethrower turret
Summons a turret that hover over your character. Everytime you attack an ennemy, the Flamethrower turret spew a cone of flames towards that ennemy.
Leaves after a certain number of GCDs.

Button Bloat Flamethrower (Don't do this)
Flamethrower now shares a cooldown with Air Anchor and is now a simple GCD in AoE.
Also remove Reassemble because button bloat I guess.

Yes, MCH is far from complete and I can't believe SQEX would actually say "We believe it's complete" while it's the most incomplete job with its tank rotation.
Wildfire is not engaging, Flamethrower is an emote with damages attached to it.
And thanks to that new Queen finisher, it's now even jankier.

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Originally Posted by jrollins89

(a FLAMETHROWER not generating HEAT? CMON)

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Flamethrower did generate Heat in Stormblood, and in fact doing so caused it to work its way into the single-target rotation, which was... an experience.

For example, Machinist literally had to get pre-shielded and then stand away from the party at the start of an O7S pull, because you might randomly get targeted for a dodgeable laser during your opener... when you had to stand still and channel Flamethrower for the full 10 seconds.

Anyway, this kind of stuff was considered too much for people in the design of Shadowbringers Nu-MCH, and that's why it doesn't generate Heat any more.

ie, Any attachment of resource generation back to Flamethrower would (in the devs's minds, I'm guessing) have to not push FT into feeling mandatory on ST encounters. Which, you know... as you said, for a level 70 capstone action, that's... yeah.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

But a true fix would make Flamethrower your Heat Gauge and make Auto Crossbow into an AoE Turret for Energy gauge.

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I would love to see this, but as a disgustingly powerful limited-mobility mode like Ley Lines. The Auto-Crossbow (or, Auto-Ballista) would fire automatically, but would be reloaded by GCDs from the player, requiring that they be within 3 yalms of said Auto-Ballista. Naturally, once put down, the button for Auto-Ballista swaps to that GCD option. Hits like a truck. And is AoE.

And, yeah, stick Flamethrower hastened-GCDs on the Overheated/Hypercharged GCDs. I'd just add that (A) it should have a longer animation than is typical (seeming to take up the full 1.5s) and, if necessary, there should technically be two forms, by the same name and tooltip, with the latter form's animation mirrored such that it switches swing direction each time (so back-to-back uses look fluid).

I would also like the animations and visual effects of this skill to be reviewed because currently, apart from the discrete little sound indicating that a damage tick has taken place on the enemies and a mush of red pixels, I don't feel like the skill does anything on enemies and it's really not engaging.

Flamethrower is basically an AoE Goring Blade.

...Where you have to stand still.

And you're losing 10 seconds of heat generation, so you're probably netting less DPS than just scattergunning into auto crossbow.

They definitely need to buff the damage--the Bio Blaster idea is cool. Something where it generates heat, or does far more damage but *spends* heat wouldn't be bad either. It's kind of funny that a fire based attack has zero interaction with a heat mechanic, don't you think?

Gimme a Flamethrowing drone, plz.

They're not going to give us any more debuffs to apply, too many debuffs at a time is a big issue.


Flamethrower should share a recast with Air Anchor, and also generate battery when used.
It already feels bad using these big single target damage skills for gauge generation in your AoE rotation, so buff Flamethrower slightly, give it battery generation, and have you use that instead of Air Anchor in your AoE. Improve QoL by being able to move while channelling it. Maybe the first hit generates 10 battery and the 5th generates another 10 battery, so you can safely disengage after 5 ticks.

I actually think Flamethrower should have some interaction with Wildfire, given that the description of the ability is a "slow burning pitch".

you mean it doesn't work like this already cause I've been doing that since I realized how Bio Blaster worked.
ie Assemble into Bio Blaster, then immediately use Flamethrower.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

I actually think Flamethrower should have some interaction with Wildfire, given that the description of the ability is a "slow burning pitch".

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But how would that fit into the rotation, Wildfire requires you fit in as many weapon skills as you can before it detonates.

Personally, I think Flamethrower works fine, you have to commit to it, and its meant for large group burndowns. Bio-Blaster into Flamethrower feels like the natural course of the combo between the two. The only thing I would add is some kind of additional interaction between them. Like Flamethrower reset Bio Blaster if you use FT until it finishes.