How would you feel if Raises were instant and OGCD, but had a 60s CD?

This is something I was wondering about for a while, and seeing the (really good) Phoenix Down suggestion thread made me think of this again:

I know that some people love being the hero that keeps raising their Alliance Raid again and again, etc...

But I've talked to other RDM/SMN/Healers who kinda wish they didn't feel obligated to drop their rotation and sloooooooowly pick people up, or risk being seen as "not a team player"... even though they could just swap to a Raiseless Job and never be guilted about it.

Personally, I'm kind-of in the middle. I don't mind "saving the day", but I do start to get exhausted after a while when there's days where I really just want to shoot Verthunders, not stop every 20 seconds to Dualcast Verraise again while running my rotation on Lucid vapors.

I honestly find myself sometimes deliberately not queuing for certain kinds of content as a Raise-capable Job, because... I just... want to be left alone and do my rotation. Does anyone else have those kind of days?

And, it's kind-of weird that an entire Role Action — "Swiftcast" — is basically reserved entirely for just one Spell in most content. And if you actually spend that Role Action for a different utility purpose out of habit or impulse, you usually feel guilty about it shortly thereafter, as you sit there hard-casting yet another Raise.

How would you feel if Raises were split into two Spells:

• An out-of-combat Raise
  • Spell (GCD)
  • 8 second cast
  • No cooldown
• An in-combat Raise
  • Ability (OGCD)
  • Instant cast
  • 60 second cooldown

...allowing Raising Jobs to:

• Freely use Swiftcast for non-support purposes without potentially dooming a pull
• Freely continue their rotation without desyncing or disruption, even if someone needs to be Raised
• Not feel obligated to fix every single problem people create, because there's a hard limit on how many Raises can go out per minute

• "But then you'd be pressured to stack Raise DPS during prog to maximize Raises available"
• "But now some Alliance Raids will be too much trouble to clear"

Hmmm. Well, if these concerns become an issue, you could:

• Put a hard limit on how many in-combat Raises can be received per minute, via a partywide debuff, so that there's diminishing returns on stacking Raise jobs

or

• Allow the long-cast GCD Raise to be used in-combat, but make its cast time unaffected by Swiftcast (but now you're back to feeling obligated to sit there sloooooooowly hard-casting Raises)

or

• Just give every job Raise as a General Action like Limit Break and Sprint, so that every Job is now equally-capable of saving the day

I'd prefer if raises were limited. It's like you say, as a rdm main there is a pressure to stop doing your job (dps) and instead raise someone, and God forbid you put it off because they died in your burst window where you've got 12.7-38.1 seconds of melee burst (depending on burst/2m/potted burst) where dropping at any point kills your entire burst.

I've seen harassment happen over it, not only to me but peers who play the job as well. I didn't pick red mage for its ability as rez mage, I picked it because I like the generator / spender gameplay combo'd with rhythmic stop/go to the beat of the fight gameplay.

As well, if prog becomes harder due to raise limitations...good? Prog doesn't need to be something one can just zombie their way through. This change honestly gives easier access to quick raise among the minimum 2 players than we have now. Yes I could see teams start trying to stack raise casters as an alternative, but you'd be forfeiting a melee slot (and a lot of damage) to do so and might miss enrage (definitely miss it in relevant content if ever 4 raises/min are needed). So it'd be a noobtrap crutch at that point imo.

any reason to remove swiftcast from my hotbar is a good idea to me, as a controller user i gotta pick an choose which abilities i use and dont use

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

How would you feel if Raises were instant and OGCD, but had a 60s CD?

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This is not World of Warcraft. So No. It was a bad design choice in WOW, it would be a bad design choice here.

I personally think raising as it is now, works fine.

Funnily enough, this rez design that is being suggested is what I actually expected when I came to this game. I've played so many mmos that had similar design, some putting a maximum amount of raises, some making raise once per battle or other variants. We have healers and two other jobs that rez so yeah, this is more than fine.

I am fine with it as it is.

If you're a healer, it's your job, and as RDM you have a flexible rotation that can neatly throw raises between (and primed by) attack spells.

Far from resenting it, I miss having the ability in lower levelled content.

raising works fine as it is but it's kind of annoying.
for skillful content an instant cast with a cooldown would work a lot better and be more meaningful but for lesser content like the 24 mans... In all honesty it feels like a lot of the player base has just fallen into this idea that they can just not learn any mechanics at all ever and expect to just be ressed over and over and over.

but then again if ressing was limited it would actually force people play better than 'not even trying at all' if they wanted to do stuff like 24 mans that effectively give endgame gear from extremely mechanically easy fights.

so I suppose I just talked myself in to being for the idea. An out of combat trigger for no cooldown should be a very easy thing for any studio to include anyways

Eh it's fine.
Now, if only verraise raises the white mana bar

I dont have any problems with how raising is now.

I do not feel that its inconvenient or "break my rotation" because as a healer, or a job with a raise ability.. healing, its part of my job. as an rdm, its a convenience if the healer is hard pressed or is low on mp. I dont play summoner so cannot address that.

basically, I am not a fan of the idea to change it into what you have outlined. in any of your case scenarios

Nah I prefer current Raise. It is fun to salvage a 24-man raid with 12 dead in Duty Finder by rezzing the rezzers and let them join the rez fest.



If anything, I want other classes to have out-combat raise via Phoenix Down, so that they can help unlucky souls they come across without having to play a rezzer class.

I don't care if I have to stop DPSing to raise someone. I just think of it as "Your DPS is now my DPS cause you wouldn't be here if it wasn't for me".

Nah. Ressing outside of swiftcast is a matter of timing and knowing the fight, reward those who can do it. No reason to make one of the skillful aspects of healers braindead.

So if 3 people die in a 8 man fight for some reason, and we don't have a rez DPS, one of them just win a "get in jail for 60 sec" card ?

I feel some of the combat jobs with raises could use this for a lower raise tax, and reduce expectations on them but still keep it as a really cool tool. For example rather than SMN killing their swift cast on raise, when they need it for their ifrit, their raise might be oGCD instant cast with cooldown and do something neat like apply a shield (carby buff) or a powerful heal / DoT (when in phoenix mode).

But in general I think it's fine the way it is currently, personally at least.

We already have instant cast raises. Hardcasting a revive spell is rough on the person casting when in challenging content, so generally, the only time someone is going to revive another downed player is when the instant cast is up.

If anything they should limit raises to 5 per encounter.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

If anything they should limit raises to 5 per encounter.

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Nah... Whenever me and my friends are progging savage, being able to be rezzed so I can experience more mechanics is much more preferrable to running out of rezzes and saying "welp, can't see anything else."

I'd be okay with Raise having a 2 charge, 60sec cooldown charge rate, OGCD, but still cost mana, or even a GCD just to give swiftcast more use. 2 Charges would be best because if you think Alliance raids, then you'd be able to toss 4 out (both healers alive), same with 8 mans as long as both healers are up, without either of them giving up DPS, or having to *shudder* harcast that 8sec raise after one swiftcast. :P

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

any reason to remove swiftcast from my hotbar is a good idea to me, as a controller user i gotta pick an choose which abilities i use and dont use

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No you don't, just swap to a second or third bar. There are hotswap key combos for a reason, and they take less than the GCD do to.
Swiftcast has uses outside of raise, so you should not be looking to remove it. You should have all your skills on your bars!

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Nah... Whenever me and my friends are progging savage, being able to be rezzed so I can experience more mechanics is much more preferrable to running out of rezzes and saying "welp, can't see anything else."

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I can see that for Savage but I wish people wiped more in alliance raids. Right now a single good healer can carry an entire 24-man raid which to me just feels uninteresting. It would be spicier if there were limited raises so alliance raids can feel tense again. It still wouldn't be hard, but people might need to wipe once or twice just like back in HW/SB.

Ugh brings to mind the 4 reszes I had on my hotbar as anTemplar in EQ2. Some in combat. Outhers out. Some can rez one person other a group

Rezzes are fine as they are. I wish others who can rez would help. Like. SMN helping rez while I’m fighting to keep the tank alive.

A instant cast Raise on oGCD with 60sec CD is WAY too powerful, even if you keep the weakness debuff. 120sec CD AT LEAST would be considered fair.

The norm on the typical MMO Res (not mentioning just WoW, theres plenty of Fish in the Sea), is from the experiences i made, by default 3-5 Minutes, with really powerful Res Skills sometimes even having 20-30 Minutes CD (near instant Res with full HP/MP Recovery or Self Res when dying while a Buff is active witj the formers benefits).


It is just mind blowing to me, that after 4 full Expansions, Healers are still stuck with just one default Res Ability and no actual Utilities AT ALL. At the very least, have it upgrade into something better at lv50-60.

I like raises the way they currently are, my RDM raise has been the one & only thing that stood between a group wide wipe or being able to continue on.

I wish we had more support tools, like an aoe esuna or the ability to give mp like in SB.

The only thing I would change about raise is for it to not be possible to cast raise on a person that already has the raise buff on them. I'm pretty content with it otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

The only thing I would change about raise is for it to not be possible to cast raise on a person that already received it. I'm pretty content with it otherwise.

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Best I can do for you is when you cast raise on someone who has already been raised it makes it an instant cast, takes the mp, and swaps your locations. Take it or take it. ;)

Having dead bodies show a symbol for jobs that can raise, with a visual hint that someone is the target of a raise, and a prevention of applying the raise 'buff' on the body of someone who already has it- would be very large QoL to raises.

There's nothing quite as satisfying as a healer than pulling off a hard casted raise on your first attempt.

Maybe it's just using a GCD on something other than damage. Actually, that's exactly what that's about.

Nope. I'd rather my raises not be artificially limited and only be constrained by my MP pool. I generally only need to raise with swiftcast, but I've pulled enough groups back from the brink of failure without LB3 that I know the value of being able to raise when I need to.

I think outside of cutting edge content where dropping your rotation can be the difference between success and failure, if a healer especially is worried about their rotation instead of supporting their party then maybe they need to rethink taking on that role.

I personally think the skill floor is way too low and this with other changes could bring more interesting content. But a 60s cd is to short. And its gonna be a hard sell since theres a lot of players looking for a skill floor which accepts completely AFKing.

While I'm not necessarily against the idea the current system is fine too. It's simply about setting expectations. I will happily rez in prog but once the fight is on farm the button goes off my bar. There is nothing satisfying about limping across the finish line to me. I'd rather wipe and pull again than interrupt a melee combo. And if someone has a problem with such approach they can just not party with me.

And in casual content there is usually plenty of rez enjoyers to not bother. Even as a healer I use swiftcast for movement most of the time.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

any reason to remove swiftcast from my hotbar is a good idea to me, as a controller user i gotta pick an choose which abilities i use and dont use

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As a fellow controller user, no, no you do not need to chose which abilities you can use and what ones you don't. You should be able to fit every skill for a job onto your cross bars and use them smoothly in combat. It is more on SEs end and really not you. Open your character config menu, go to Hotbar settings then to the custom tab. Make sure Enable expanded controls with L2+R2 is checked as well as Enable WXHB with simultaneous L2 and R2 double tap. This should give you about 40 slots to put actions in. so now you can bring up set 2 cross bar (or you can change what cross bar set the L2+R2 and R2+l2 will bring up) with holding L2 then R2 that will bring up one half of set to. holding R2 then L2 brings up the other half. With WXHB enable you can double tab L2 to bring up 4 boutons (again you can set which cross bar set it will bring up in the same window as enabling the WXHB) and double taping R2 will bring up another set of 4 buttons.

What I do is my rotation and most used Ogcds, and potion goes on set 1 the my main set. Then my aoe skills, and my OCGDs that are on longer cool downs go on set 2 cross bar that I bring up with the L2+R2 and R2+L2. Then my sprint, role actions go to the double tab R2/L2 set.

You wouldn't see people eating as many mechanics that's for sure. Too many deaths? Wipe because you can't meet the enrage timer.

Raising is just fine how it is. Sure, don't need them to make it worse.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

any reason to remove swiftcast from my hotbar is a good idea to me, as a controller user i gotta pick an choose which abilities i use and dont use

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Go into your settings menu and learn how to use e.g double taps for extra bars properly, console users have enough space without needing to resort to ignoring abilities.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

any reason to remove swiftcast from my hotbar is a good idea to me, as a controller user i gotta pick an choose which abilities i use and dont use

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Originally Posted by Delis

As a fellow controller user, no, no you do not need to chose which abilities you can use and what ones you don't. You should be able to fit every skill for a job onto your cross bars and use them smoothly in combat. It is more on SEs end and really not you.

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God this... if you're "choosing" stuff to leave off your hotbar then you're not using it to its fullest potential. You have a total of 48 abilities that you can easily get to without needing to switch hotbars, there's no reason why you would need to leave stuff off of your hotbars.


As for the OP; I don't see the freedom of using Swiftcast as a big enough gain to make a change like this that would ultimately make the game less interesting.

Is SMN going to swiftcast one of the 2 casts every 2 minutes?
RDM is still going to Swiftcast to fish for procs
Are healers going to Swiftcast their damage spell....once?

Nope. I like being forced to think about incoming mechanics that could interfere with a potentially fight-saving hard rez cast.

This would remove that, and people would argue more about how x shouldn't have been rez'd over y.

I would love it. In one condition its on dps. Healer can still have the cast one.