Let's Get Real About 3rd Party Tools

And the reality is that nothing has changed.

Despite recent controversy and increased discussion, the ToS regarding the use of any 3rd party tools has not changed: all 3rd party add-ons violate the ToS, and you assume all risk when using them. Full Stop. Zero grey area.

SE has stated on multiple occasions that they will not condone the use of outside tools that modify the game in some way. In the same breath, they have also stated that they DO NOT have any way of detecting the use of these tools, nor do they plan on adding any software to the game client that will allow them to monitor your computer to detect these programs being used.

An informal policy of "don't ask, don't show, don't tell" has been in effect for years, and it only really becomes a discussion again during high-profile events, such as the recent Ultimate race and the suspensions that occurred due to the confirmed use of these tools. SE has a standing punishment tier system based on the severity of the violation. That is the only leeway given when someone gets a warning for using something like Gshade vs someone given a 20 day ban for using ACT, Cactbot, or a combination of other tools.

A lot of the controversy has come from some players saying that SE suddenly decided to update their ToS regarding 3rd party tools in regards to the recent actions taken against Ultimate racers. The simple fact of the matter is that they have not updated anything. It is the exact same ToS it has been since it has been implemented.

The exact same thing happened when SE reiterated their policies regarding harassment. So many players started crying foul, saying that SE was catering too much to the casuals not wanting to get their feelings hurt. Fear that people would weaponize the ToS to get people banned were rampant. The truth? Zero change was made to the actual policy. All they did was provide some specific examples as a general guideline to curb harassment.

Now there is merit to the discussion that the game would be greatly improved by some of the UI and QoL tools that are in use. Yoshida even stated that they would look further in to how these tools could be implemented into the game. I believe this is a step in the right direction. I also do not believe in witch hunts, and the petty reporting of these tools is childish if for no other reason than to see someone get a ban.

A the end of the day, stay safe, do you, and always be aware of the inherent risk in running 3rd party add-ons.

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Originally Posted by WlyemR

Zero grey area.

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I remember a live letter where Yoshida was talking about ACT and referred to how a calculator, excel spreadsheet, and MMO mouse could be considered third party tools. He was being a little hyperbolic but his point was that it's not as easy as you might think.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

I remember a live letter where Yoshida was talking about ACT and referred to how a calculator, excel spreadsheet, and MMO mouse could be considered third party tools. He was being a little hyperbolic but his point was that it's not as easy as you might think.

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Keep my spreadsheets out of yo' mouth-...

Hmm.

Anyway, I would note the major change is that SE may be inspired to make the third party tools less appealing by making the default UI more appealing.

Imo that was some good news out of this :)

Yeah that's good, with the addition of damage meters to the base game for EX/Savage/Ultimate and a few tweaks to the default UI everyone would be happy and there won't be any need to use 3rd party tools.
Just as a side note, include damage meters to the game while keeping the harassment policy so there won't be any kind of toxicity because of its usage. Just like nowadays.

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Originally Posted by NakanoTEA

Yeah that's good, with the addition of damage meters to the base game for EX/Savage/Ultimate and a few tweaks to the default UI everyone would be happy and there won't be any need to use 3rd party tools.
Just as a side note, include damage meters to the game while keeping the harassment policy so there won't be any kind of toxicity because of its usage. Just like nowadays.

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As much as I am wary & uncomfortable with damage meter display,

I however can concede to this provided its a system within the game & not a third party where it leverages an unusual advantage to cheat out of the system,

Lets hope for better results, accept what did & did not work out in our favour, all in all for everyone’s benefit & fair sport

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Originally Posted by Vencio

As much as I am wary & uncomfortable with damage meter display,

I however can concede to this provided its a system within the game & not a third party where it leverages an unusual advantage to cheat out of the system,

Lets hope for better results, accept what did & did not work out in our favour, all in all for everyone’s benefit & fair sport

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Yeah exactly, that's also why I wanted to clarify that should be only active for High-End duties and never used as a tool for harassment. Only for the group to know where they can improve.

The problem with having a DPS meter within the game is that you open the floodgates for DPS requirements in parties.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

I remember a live letter where Yoshida was talking about ACT and referred to how a calculator, excel spreadsheet, and MMO mouse could be considered third party tools. He was being a little hyperbolic but his point was that it's not as easy as you might think.

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Yeah, I get that. And I agree that "zero gray area" may be a bit hyperbolic. Things that directly modify your client and are able to track client data in real time are more in line with the zero-tolerance stuff. Things completely outside the game that people consider "3rd party" like Discord and modded controllers and such are more on the "are they/aren't they" side of the argument.

DPS meters are largely irrelevant.

People have told me my numbers for things and I shrug it off. It changes from one duty to the next. They said so many times when the stat squish was incoming that people shouldn't worry about the numbers. It all works out to the same thing.

All that matters is everyone hitting their respective rotation properly. The only time I ever found it useful to compare numbers was when I was working on BLU as DPS. Beyond that, it's all about having the right gear, food and adjusting rotation to fit the fight. Any enrage I have seen go off happened because there were too many KOs. KOs cut your stats and therefore your dmg output. It's that simple. There is no one out there that can actually prove that DPS meters are a necessity. Every time these encounters are made, they are completed at least once without them.

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Originally Posted by Serolithia

The problem with having a DPS meter within the game is that you open the floodgates for DPS requirements in parties.

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But that already happens and mostly just on speed-kill groups/pfs, where I think it's fair.

Also, that's why I explicitly said that it should be only active for high-end duties. For 80% of the playerbase it would be a nonexistent feature that doesn't get on the way of their playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Beyond that, it's all about having the right gear, food and adjusting rotation to fit the fight. Any enrage I have seen go off happened because there were too many KOs. KOs cut your stats and therefore your dmg output. It's that simple.

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Basically this. As long as you know what you're doing and can stay alive, you'll clear the fight as whatever job you are. The real issue here is the inconsistent way that the ToS is being enforced along with sectors of the playerbase using this as an excuse to witch-hunt people.

Thank you, finally someone said it. Nothing has changed, nor will it, all they did was being clear about it since the freaking troll brigades came down hard on someone who got caught using ACT to improve himself.
Go home guys, there is nothing to see or do.

Can we talk about something else?
Y'all have 50 damn topics. Where's Titan dude
or chick, I want new material lmao.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Can we talk about something else?
Y'all have 50 damn topics. Where's Titan dude
or chick, I want new material lmao.

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Ngl as much as I enjoy putting in few cents and watching the wildfire spread, I do wish for this as well rofl.

The whole pro add on vs anti add on campaign is getting old, they're becoming more and more like a meme than anything. (it's not like they're not a meme from first place but eh...)

Addons has been a powder keg issue for years, and it finally exploded. I wonder how the guy that "exposed" the pvp addons feels now, lol.

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Originally Posted by WlyemR

And the reality is that nothing has changed.
Despite recent controversy and increased discussion, the ToS regarding the use of any 3rd party tools has not changed: all 3rd party add-ons violate the ToS, and you assume all risk when using them. Full Stop. Zero grey area.

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The most frustrating part about this whole discussion is that lots of people can't get over this simple fact.

But to be fair, they have been misdirected both by content creators on the internet and S-E's inaction on the issue for years. I mean, Square affiliated people used damage meters and more all the time. I'm glad something was finally done, even if it took an squad of internet meanies to do it.
At the end of the day, OP is right. Just do you and don't take dumb risks.

Oh, and real quick, it's perfectly ok to criticize Square on their approach to addons and propose solutions/alternatives. Just be aware that is a real long shot.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's be fair here. The only thing that's changed, that I personally never saw coming is that they're looking to develop their own UI changes. Previously, every single time you wanted one, it was "server load, server limitations that." A new expansion drops and they go out of their way to stress how it was "really, really difficult" because, once again, server issues.

Like a ringing bell, bald man once said on the virtual chirping spaces: "Shout out to all the streamers, raiders and content creators taking the ban so FFXIV can be a better game. Remember this when you said "oh they deserve the ban! its against ToS!!!" as you enjoy all your new QoL mods when SE implements them lmao"

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Originally Posted by NakanoTEA

Yeah that's good, with the addition of damage meters to the base game for EX/Savage/Ultimate and a few tweaks to the default UI everyone would be happy and there won't be any need to use 3rd party tools.
Just as a side note, include damage meters to the game while keeping the harassment policy so there won't be any kind of toxicity because of its usage. Just like nowadays.

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Ohhhh I quite like this! Expanding upon it, how about the ability to vote enable or flag enable on party creation? Play mostly with the friends so we can have full party and we would enable this in instant.

This would allow damage tracking in all content though only if you have a full party. So could also go queue with some friends > explorer mode > summon dummy > compare rotation. Mahh.. Unlikely to ever occur though. Too much of the fear about this topic in particular. Code already exists in codebase for PvP too.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's be fair here. The only thing that's changed, that I personally never saw coming is that they're looking to develop their own UI changes. Previously, every single time you wanted one, it was "server load, server limitations that." A new expansion drops and they go out of their way to stress how it was "really, really difficult" because, once again, server issues.

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Have not seen them say this about the UI stuffs but would be most strange if they did. All UI elements are client side. Heck! Can actually gain additional gear sets by re-naming a file.

Imagine using third party tools, LOL NOOBS.

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

Have not seen them say this about the UI stuffs but would be most strange if they did. All UI elements are client side. Heck! Can actually gain additional gear sets by re-naming a file.

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Taken straight from the 3rd party tool notice:

*Enhancements to the HUD and Other UI Elements
We believe that people use the aforementioned tools to expand the HUD and display more information because they feel that existing functions are insufficient for tackling high-end duties. In recognition of this, we intend to review the most prominent tools, and in order to discourage their use, endeavor to enhance the functionality of the HUD. Though it will take some time, we're determined to make it happen─not least for the benefit of those who play on consoles.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Taken straight from the 3rd party tool notice:

*Enhancements to the HUD and Other UI Elements
We believe that people use the aforementioned tools to expand the HUD and display more information because they feel that existing functions are insufficient for tackling high-end duties. In recognition of this, we intend to review the most prominent tools, and in order to discourage their use, endeavor to enhance the functionality of the HUD. Though it will take some time, we're determined to make it happen─not least for the benefit of those who play on consoles.

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Oh aye aye have seen that one. I meant them stating that server limitations were preventing them from making UI alterations. Many apologies, English is not the main language. Would not surprise me if they did claim server issue for UI as they have said many many things most strange. Only benefit of the doubt I could give is "translation issues" and that something else was meant.

That small snip though was positive thing indeed! I hopes that they implement these changes well whenever they decide too. Code is all public and available on Github. If I were guessing Lala the majority of these alterations will be pushed to HD overhaul then batched by dev team for one major release.

Just keep using them. The only loser here is SE when their free advertising dries up. Or just use Obscura and laugh at GMs.