Please enable all abilities during roulettes in 7.0.

This is a huge opportunity to motivate both veterans to have fun during their roulettes and keep learning their rotations, PLUS new players to see what kind of abilities they'll get later on into the game. Something that motivated me as an early player was the abilities and cool gear. Even if there had to be balancing with lowering ability potencies when synced or stat reductions to even out the new abilities, it'd be amazing for everyone to get to see what a 90/100 class would look and feel like. I want to help my friends through dungeons and show them what a cool job they'd get at max level would be, and I also want to be able to practice my core rotation at any given point. It would be a win-win scenario for everyone. :cool:

No thanks.

Allowing all learned actions in syncked duties requires one of two things:

A) At-level players will do 0.2x to 0.5x as much damage as syncked max level players because extra actions directly correlate to extra damage.
or B) Syncked max level players need to do 2x to 5x as much work as an at-level player to do the same amount of damage because syncked players need to have their damage scaled way down so as not to make at-level players' damage irrelevant.

Neither of these options is appealing.

Basically what Rongway said.

Addendum from me though - if there is anything we could or should ask for it is to have certain key abilities be available a bit sooner, but having simply all abilities available is just a balancing nightmare that is not worth it to invest time into.

Either they balance it and it was a lot of ressources arguably wasted on rebalancing for this or they don't, which basically means you want to avoid having to do roulettes with people who aren't at a high level - which goes against one of two reasons roulettes exist.

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Originally Posted by 7agabond

This is a huge opportunity to motivate both veterans to have fun during their roulettes and keep learning their rotations, PLUS new players to see what kind of abilities they'll get later on into the game. Something that motivated me as an early player was the abilities and cool gear. Even if there had to be balancing with lowering ability potencies when synced or stat reductions to even out the new abilities, it'd be amazing for everyone to get to see what a 90/100 class would look and feel like. I want to help my friends through dungeons and show them what a cool job they'd get at max level would be, and I also want to be able to practice my core rotation at any given point. It would be a win-win scenario for everyone. :cool:

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Guild Wars 2 does somthing like this and honestly I can’t speak for everyone but I’d flipping love if they did it.. just lower the stats like they have been and leave actions in place. *shrug* I’d much rather get to use more of my moves at a lower level for the time I put in to get them but hey that’s me.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

or B) Syncked max level players need to do 2x to 5x as much work as an at-level player to do the same amount of damage because syncked players need to have their damage scaled way down so as not to make at-level players' damage irrelevant..

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I'd happily take that option.

For myself, though. I'd have no intention of forcing that upon others.

Just put the option in the Duty Finder Settings:

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Retain Skills

Retain access to all your current abilities while level-synced down. Note that the power of your individual skills will be adjusted for their increased number. While this may increase your maximum damage slightly, this will of course require you to do more work than those of significantly lower level.
⁘ This setting applies individually. It is not affected by the state set by the party leader.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'd happily take that option.

For myself, though. I'd have no intention of forcing that upon others.

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The thing is, I don't really care insofar as it applies to me because I'm confident that even with the severe downscaling I'd still put out more than my fair share of damage. It might be a little annoying to have to put in the extra work, but whatever.

But I don't trust three to seven other people to play their jobs well enough that duties won't take twice as long if they get scaled down. Duties with syncked people are going to take longer on average.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Duties with syncked people are going to take longer on average.

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I am totally fine with that. I'd gladly spend a few more minutes for it not to feel so much like a mindless chore.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

B) Synced max level players need to do 2x to 5x as much work as an at-level player to do the same amount of damage because synced players need to have their damage scaled way down so as not to make at-level players' damage irrelevant.

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This option is appealing. This one right here officer.

I'd much rather be ABLE to work harder in synced combat. If not that, then they need to clean up the leveling process. It seems like with every "rework" the 1-50 ability gain rate just gets stretched out further and further and you just get things later and later. I was playing MCH in Alliance roulettes and got LotA and forgot how ridiculously anemic the level 50 rotation is.

Hell, make it an option somewhere

"Legacy Sync" (Your stats and abilities are synced down to the level of the duty that you are doing)

"Alternative Sync" (Your stats are synced down, you keep your abilities but their effectiveness is decreased)

Balance Alternative sync around an "average" player doing the same amount that an "average" player would with the legacy sync.

I just want to be able to play the job that I'm playing at the level I have it. If I need to work 5x harder to do the same amount of damage as someone else, so be it.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

If I need to work 5x harder to do the same amount of damage as someone else, so be it.

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Okay. Now you're in a dungeon with a tank whose cooldowns only reduce damage by 3%-15% instead of 20%-100% and a healer who can only keep the tank alive by spending all their oGCDs in the first pull and they still have to spam tier II heals once those are all gone, or it's a wipe.

Hyperbole aside, these problems compound when you have multiple people "alternative syncked" and people don't know how to use their action sets effectively.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Okay. Now you're in a dungeon with a tank whose cooldowns only reduce damage by 3%-15% instead of 20%-100% and a healer who can only keep the tank alive by spending all their oGCDs in the first pull and they still have to spam tier II heals once those are all gone, or it's a wipe.

Hyperbole aside, these problems compound when you have multiple people "alternative syncked" and people don't know how to use their action sets effectively.

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Sounds like they shouldn't pull as much then.

You've made up a hypothetical situation where these people are 1/10th of their power instead of what would be more likely, i.e. the balance would work out so that playing in a level 40 dungeon would require the exact same (probably lesser) skill and ability use as Expert roulette. If these people are failing in this way, they would be failing in expert roulettes.

They sort of do it for everything 70+ since that is where most key abilities are unlocked.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

No thanks.

Allowing all learned actions in syncked duties requires one of two things:

A) At-level players will do 0.2x to 0.5x as much damage as syncked max level players because extra actions directly correlate to extra damage.
or B) Syncked max level players need to do 2x to 5x as much work as an at-level player to do the same amount of damage because syncked players need to have their damage scaled way down so as not to make at-level players' damage irrelevant.

Neither of these options is appealing.

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It works in other games. I see no reason why it can't work here.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

B) Syncked max level players need to do 2x to 5x as much work as an at-level player to do the same amount of damage because syncked players need to have their damage scaled way down so as not to make at-level players' damage irrelevant.

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This is the way WoW's sync works. The devs have even noted that they rather badly screwed up the tuning, in low-level players' favor (to the point of their doing up to 40% more damage than intended relative to their higher-leveled allies, especially if in messy pulls where higher-level players' burst tools go to waste). And it's still far preferable to having a hugely reduced kit.

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Originally Posted by 7agabond

This is a huge opportunity to motivate both veterans to have fun during their roulettes and keep learning their rotations, PLUS new players to see what kind of abilities they'll get later on into the game. Something that motivated me as an early player was the abilities and cool gear. Even if there had to be balancing with lowering ability potencies when synced or stat reductions to even out the new abilities, it'd be amazing for everyone to get to see what a 90/100 class would look and feel like. I want to help my friends through dungeons and show them what a cool job they'd get at max level would be, and I also want to be able to practice my core rotation at any given point. It would be a win-win scenario for everyone. :cool:

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SWToR the last time I played was doing something like this. You scaled down in level and kept all the spells from what ever level you were. They even was doing it on low level planets so a max toon would scale down to the planet level. It makes things interesting but if they do this put in a toggle. I kinda like they way it is

Yes please, even if everything is scaled in a way that my extra buttons don't do more damage. I just want to press buttons and actually have fun playing BLM when I do my daily stuff. Have an option to get hard-synced for people who just want to press 1-2 all day, and another option for the rest of us who enjoy having access to the kit for jobs we love. The #1 reason I hate getting ARR/HW content in roulettes isn't because of the content itself but because most of my jobs feel like crap at that level to play.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

B) Syncked max level players need to do 2x to 5x as much work as an at-level player to do the same amount of damage because syncked players need to have their damage scaled way down so as not to make at-level players' damage irrelevant.

Neither of these options is appealing.

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This option is 10000% appealing to me and I'd take the option to have it over what we have now. An option for other people who enjoy pressing 2 buttons for 20 minutes is fine too, but at least give me the option to play the game.

We have palace of the dead/HOH and Bozja for getting a preview of unlocked abilities and skills. With roulette, there is the goal that people who are the correct level of the duty can have an opportunity to learn their job at the level that they currently are.

Having more buttons to push as well as a learning curve specifically set up for that roulette but not outside of the roulette, [like quested abilities and skills] can be an inconvenience and may be confusing while others are moving on and pulling the mobs because they do not want to spend a lot of unneeded time in roulette.

Another thing to consider is the unlocked tabs and learning new rotations that are levels above you in a fast paced environment that encourages efficiency.

I know in palace of the dead, and in bozja there is the need to stop and reassign hotkeys/controller slots for the new abilities that are open due to the zone allowing us to play at a higher level than we are currently.

Needing time to set up controller and hotkeys is not as stressful in those situations since in potd/hoh, and bozja, the others can move ahead and not be burdened by your absence while you are setting up and reading job skill hint text. You have time to learn your new rotation and it will not immediately burden the others in the instance while you do this.

If I was tank or heals in a roulette dungeon and needed to ask people to wait while I set up my controller and read my skills to learn what they are for, it would be tedious and unfair to the others who may have already leveled into their skills and abilities and are expecting me to know how to use mine, when they are entirely new to me and above my level.

I would avoid roulette and just run with npc's instead, which is counter to the whole purpose of roulette in the first place.

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

We have palace of the dead/HOH and Bozja for getting a preview of unlocked abilities and skills. With roulette, there is the goal that people who are the correct level of the duty can have an opportunity to learn their job at the level that they currently are.

Having more buttons to push as well as a learning curve specifically set up for that roulette but not outside of the roulette, [like quested abilities and skills] can be an inconvenience and may be confusing while others are moving on and pulling the mobs because they do not want to spend a lot of unneeded time in roulette.

Another thing to consider is the unlocked tabs and learning new rotations that are levels above you in a fast paced environment that encourages efficiency.

I know in palace of the dead, and in bozja there is the need to stop and reassign hotkeys/controller slots for the new abilities that are open due to the zone allowing us to play at a higher level than we are currently.

Needing time to set up controller and hotkeys is not as stressful in those situations since in potd/hoh, and bozja, the others can move ahead and not be burdened by your absence while you are setting up and reading job skill hint text. You have time to learn your new rotation and it will not immediately burden the others in the instance while you do this.

If I was tank or heals in a roulette dungeon and needed to ask people to wait while I set up my controller and read my skills to learn what they are for, it would be tedious and unfair to the others who may have already leveled into their skills and abilities and are expecting me to know how to use mine, when they are entirely new to me and above my level.

I would avoid roulette and just run with npc's instead, which is counter to the whole purpose of roulette in the first place.

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That's not what people are asking for.

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

Having more buttons to push as well as a learning curve specifically set up for that roulette but not outside of the roulette, [like quested abilities and skills] can be an inconvenience and may be confusing while others are moving on and pulling the mobs because they do not want to spend a lot of unneeded time in roulette.

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Lower level dungeons are often easier, so even though you might have inconveniences on that, its usualy compensated by simply having the time to adjust. Thats for example why cure1 is still on my hotbar, but not on the quick access location. If i end up in satasha, i just click it manualy, its not like my damage is needed at all in there. Even for lvl50+ this often applies. Except you obviously have the key abilities already at that point and its more about some more specialized abilities.

I think the blue mage system would be helpful though by giving multiple hotbars you can store, as that would benefit a lot more situations. There is no need to unlock everything, it just creates a balance hell.