Yet another SAM tweaks suggestion.

I know, tons of threads already complaining about this stuff and kaiten all that, but I was thinking and had a few ideas come to my head that would get rid of the double iajutsu being such a boring ability alongside bringing back kaiten. Not linked together mind you, just an idea they could toss in while adding it back, since they want to improve the class... apparently.

First off, all of the follow-up iajutsus from Tsubame-Gaeshi get changed to unique attacks with their own animations and effects.

1. Kaeshi: Higanbana does a small amount of upfront potency, and if it is used on a target who is affected by a higanbana DoT, it spreads that DoT to all enemies near it with reduced potency. Also change the animation so the player is actually drawing the sword for the followup, preferrably in a similar stance to what you do for the first higanbana.
2. Kaeshi: Goken acts as a gap closer and will do a circular AOE centered on the target, or on the user after the gap closer part of it (but I don't know if the server ticks or the code can handle this so on target is simpler). Also change the animation so that the user does a sweeping or cirular attack as the followup, maybe follow it with wirling blade particle effects or something equally "flashy" trailing behind the strike. Maybe something to do with wind to better reflect the elemental/spellbade part of the samurai lore? And the gap closing part is to put you back in range for your normal AOE skills as of 6.0. Circles and all that. Of course this would require Tenka Goken being a cone again to make sense.
3. Kaeshi: Setsugekka is still just another big hit, but with a unique animation. Perhaps an overhead strike with a lot of power behind it and sfx akin to those used for ogi namikiri.

Just an idea to make kaeshi/doitagainlol that's a rather lackluster part of the kit have some more flair to it, is all. And maybe have the potency of the followup attack be boosted if you used kaiten to boost the first one, too? To encourage consistency and all.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

I know, tons of threads already complaining about this stuff and kaiten all that, but I was thinking and had a few ideas come to my head that would get rid of the double iajutsu being such a boring ability alongside bringing back kaiten. Not linked together mind you, just an idea they could toss in while adding it back, since they want to improve the class... apparently.

First off, all of the follow-up iajutsus from Tsubame-Gaeshi get changed to unique attacks with their own animations and effects.

1. Kaeshi: Higanbana does a small amount of upfront potency, and if it is used on a target who is affected by a higanbana DoT, it spreads that DoT to all enemies near it with reduced potency. Also change the animation so the player is actually drawing the sword for the followup, preferrably in a similar stance to what you do for the first higanbana.
2. Kaeshi: Goken acts as a gap closer and will do a circular AOE centered on the target, or on the user after the gap closer part of it (but I don't know if the server ticks or the code can handle this so on target is simpler). Also change the animation so that the user does a sweeping or cirular attack as the followup, maybe follow it with wirling blade particle effects or something equally "flashy" trailing behind the strike. Maybe something to do with wind to better reflect the elemental/spellbade part of the samurai lore? And the gap closing part is to put you back in range for your normal AOE skills as of 6.0. Circles and all that. Of course this would require Tenka Goken being a cone again to make sense.
3. Kaeshi: Setsugekka is still just another big hit, but with a unique animation. Perhaps an overhead strike with a lot of power behind it and sfx akin to those used for ogi namikiri.

Just an idea to make kaeshi/doitagainlol that's a rather lackluster part of the kit have some more flair to it, is all. And maybe have the potency of the followup attack be boosted if you used kaiten to boost the first one, too? To encourage consistency and all.

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*Looks at my character name* Why do you hate me so? :P

But seriously, giving different identities for the Tsubame-gaeshi versions of Iaijutsus seem interesting, but also this is SE we are talking about. This dev team seems incapable of not ruining jobs or comprehension of any sort apparently, so I am scared they will see this suggestion and go "Oh, let's remove all of them and replace it with Gekko and Kasha :)".

Still doesn't change fact that kaeshi bana will be useless ability (like do even mobs in dungeon packs will live long enough for that dot damage and -1 gaeshi charge to be worth). I would rather want kaeshi bana changed to separate ability with 60s cooldown that just converts current bana dot into non crit/dh damage so atleast sam could press more buttons in ultimates with tons of intermissions.

Specific Skill changes? The problem I guess from Tsubame-gaeshi is that it states

• Repeats the previously executed Iaijutsu with increased potency.

Feels great with Midare Setsugekka and Tenka Goken,... well when it still was a cone for me.... but by design it makes Kaeshi: Higanbana near inapplicable.

I did daydream about changes like

• Tsubame-gaeshi button removed and the charges moved to Iaijutsu
• Iaijutsu casts consume the charges in the same way Tsubame-gaeshi does
• A charge will automaticlaly cast a amplified version of an Iaijutsu skill
• Cast time of repeated skill will be fast
• Kaeshi: Higanbana will consume Higanbana DoT on target to apply an amplified DoT

In my dream basically the cast time of say Midare Setsugekka and Kaeshi: Setsugekka will be casted back to back, it will only have the same animation cast time as Midare Setsugekka.

But then I somehow got angry at myself cause it simplified pressing variation of buttons and also just pressing less buttons to see more affects it will feel less satisfying maybe? and will I be complicit to changing how Samurai plays this heavily?

I woke up and then realized I dreamed about literally being angry arguing with myself in my dream :| .... what?


Above all else... I just want 6.08 SAM to return, I enjoyed it then and now I can't enjoy Post 6.1 SAM. That's about the extend of changes I would like to see and about around the only one that matters to me mostly.

Just stop please.

We have already more than enough posts over flooding about the third party program issue,

An announcement may be happening probably some time next week

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Originally Posted by Vencio

Just stop please.

We have already more than enough posts over flooding about the third party program issue,

An announcement may be happening probably some time next week

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Here's a better idea: stop replying to threads you hate so much and want to shut down. Or don't and keep bumping them and someone will rebut you and bump it in turn. Works either way.

Fair enough,

It all amounts to the same result after all

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Originally Posted by AsiTsurugi

Here's a better idea: stop replying to threads you hate so much and want to shut down. Or don't and keep bumping them and someone will rebut you and bump it in turn. Works either way.

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Or we can simply ignore the people that get overly worked up and emotional over other people's posts and just be happy with the unconscious bump. Its clear at this point, their most driving desire is to simply inject with their own ironic complaining and no amount of illustrating how silly and hypocritical their posts are, they will continue to happen.

All the SAM community should really care about is that the topic remains active and prevented from slipping into quiet acceptance. Probably more important for the more informative posts (if SE even reads anything in these forums) stay up top. But at this point, if Vencio wants to insist in keeping SAM posts near the top... I'm not going to argue.

We have a history I can tell,

I am glad,

More delighted how relentless these posts keeps coming about,

In truth, it’s increasingly becoming far entertaining

That are some good suggestions, with the return of Kaiten and a few tweaks SAM can be great again.

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Originally Posted by Vencio

We have a history I can tell,

I am glad,

More delighted how relentless these posts keeps coming about,

In truth, it’s increasingly becoming far entertaining

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lol. Glad we are both getting a kick out of your silly behavior. You seem to work harder then SAM players in keeping our posts relevant.


Do you have anything to actually contribute to the OP's points? Or you were just going through your routine thread updates just to make sure others knew you were discontent with others being discontent?



To actually the OP's point and not let silly, pointless posts derail a discussion:
Personally, I find Tsubame-Gaeshi to actually be part of the current problem SAM is experiencing... (just basing this conclusion off the SE excuse of removing kaiten due to lopsided damage output).

Effectively Tsubame-Gaeshi and Ogi are both in the theme of keeping most of SAM damage to just a few select moves, which is what lead to the damage variance SE was insisting on the reason they made the 6.1 change in the first place.

That all stated, your ideas are creative and interesting... But I personally believe if they want to tackle the damage variance issue, it would be best to add the potency back to midare and other iaijutsu moves... but make the Tsubame-Gaeshi moves more aimed at aiding/giving flavor to the next cycle through the SAM rotation rather then be a 2nd big hit.

- this entirely is stated in the interest in keeping strong Kaiten enhanced midares, rather then having two identical moves that are halved in damage.

Guess what I am stating in a simpler way is: I rather have 1 or 2 sets of strong finishers (1 Iaijutsu and 1 oGCD), rather then have more which damage needs to be spread thin across.


I certainly agree with Tsubame-Gaeshi being pretty boring as well. And regardless of all else, Kaeshi: Higanbana has needed a meaningful change since its inception...

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Originally Posted by FrogBiscuit

Personally, I find Tsubame-Gaeshi to actually be part of the current problem SAM is experiencing...

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I don't even understand the problem myself. In terms of I guess " color numbers " if you will, I just constantly am trying to out perform myself. But, optimization is something I rarely delve into and thus I don't understand any of it. Like synced raid buffs and pot times and crit comps and burst windows etc. " I can clear content, what's the problem? " i.e i am kinda dumb on that.

Though I did daydream about how much more space was required for this issue that Square I thought had with needing more room for x y z more skills to upgrade Samurai and all these restrictive actions need to go. They removed Kaiten, I got royally pissed off and got angy dream, that i described in the previous post in vivid detail somehow =u=.

I don't know what Square has in store for SAM, but I am quite worried if they want to remove more of our skill-kit, and give us in return something more simplistic, less satisfying, and dumbed down.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

I don't even understand the problem myself.

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You know, I am right there with you in not really knowing the problem. None of SE excuses panned out or were really remotely true...

So in reflection to that, I fully admit my comments about Tsubame-Gaeshi were coming from a place of trying to solve a SE problem that I am not even sure is the correct approach in the first place, let alone a real issue.

For clarity, I am fine with Tsubame-Gaeshi, I just find the mechanic of doubling up on the finisher as being not terribly inspired. So if the cause of the 6.1 changes was damage variance I personally wouldn't mind it coming out of Tsubame-Gaeshi (at least not nearly as much as Kaiten's removal).

But that said, I don't even care about the damage variance at all in the first place, so if SE could be convinced that its not an issue, then just revert back to 6.08 and we're all good!


But if damage variance is a problem, I'd like something like (obviously tuned to not be OP, but I don't have the numbers so maybe silly daydreaming...) but revert 6.08 back to what was, and then use current Kaeshi damage and spread it out over our kit. Rather then be straight damage like Goken and Setsugekka provides, (and kaeshi: Higanbana being virtually pointless) provide a haste buff, provide a AoE version of Higanbana, or have some other Kaeshi effect that would lead into and assist the next rotation cycle in some meaningful way. That way not only would we smooth out our damage peaks, but would also save midare/kaiten damage peaks...

But I dunno, maybe I am off base on the above idea and honestly... just getting 6.08 back would solve the problems without having to be creative about it or introducing new problems to the current situation.

Gonna continue shilling for consolidating the Shoha abilities into Shinten/Kyuten. Sword mediation stacks powerup Shinten into Shoha. It creates a feedback loop where we use Kenki to power-up Iaijutsus and Iaijutsus gives us sword meditation stacks to power-up our Kenki dump (Shinten into Shoha). Also works that Kyuten and Shoha 2 are circular AOEs.

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Originally Posted by SiriusBreeze

Gonna continue shilling for consolidating the Shoha abilities into Shinten/Kyuten. Sword mediation stacks powerup Shinten into Shoha. It creates a feedback loop where we use Kenki to power-up Iaijutsus and Iaijutsus gives us sword meditation stacks to power-up our Kenki dump (Shinten into Shoha). Also works that Kyuten and Shoha 2 are circular AOEs.

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I would love for Meditation to blend into the overall kit more. I've been parroting the idea of making Shinten/Kyuten transform based on status procs like Ikishoten turning them into Senei/Guren or Meditation turning them into Shoha 1 and 2. I also even considering making a button just for Meditation similar to the Iaijutsu with Sen.

Just... something along these kinds of consolidations is all I would want as a change to SAM since ShB. Damage has always been fine. It flowed nicely and felt flexible. But everything after the introduction in SB has felt tacked on. Tsubame-gaeshi is nice, but its really annoying when I finish an entire rotation and have 8 to 14 seconds left before its off cooldown. That was an issue I always had in ShB, so I'd wait doing nothing to make use of my second Midare.

Now it has 2 charges and I can just pool the second charge for emergencies or something along with Meikyo. Good QoL, but I'm probably playing wrong by not using both.

And then, Kaiten being taken away, it all just feels like there's a big long gap of nothing between my GCDs and iai, even if I use Shinten. It feels like a broken staccato now instead of a steady stream of melodies.

nice idea's but i listen to this. i have this idea right. what if, they make an ability that buffs your next weapon skill dmg by, i dont know, say 50%. then they can make it cost kenki so you dont have to spamm shiten all the time. they can call it something like kaiten.

i donno, i am no game dev but if you ask me SAM would be almost perfect job if they just add an ability like this.