How is SE gonna ban someone using a QOL3rd party program?

that they are gonna implement themselves?? This company is really ass backwards with how they think and that JP streamer who got banned for using UI addons that show buff timers on the party list should be unbanned. It's even more sick that some of you on here probably agree with them too. Imagine getting banned progging the new fight bc you are using a feature that SE is gonna implement themselves in the next decade. Very sad to see SE killing their game like this but it's deserved if they keep doing atrocities like this.

I really don’t know why people are Pikachu facing. They’ve made clear the policy and let the practical application remain grey for a while. Just don’t be an idiot and stream to the world with it. Also “atrocities” is certainly a word lol

Same company that puts their only US server in California and gets mad when people use VPNs to not get crippling latency issues.

Didn't that person get report brigaded? There's a group of people mass reporting streamers with add-ons visible. Unfortunate really :/

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Originally Posted by Padudu

Didn't that person get report brigaded? There's a group of people mass reporting streamers with add-ons visible. Unfortunate really :/

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Would it matter? SE can chose to ban or not, and they have been very loose with how they ban. Also mass reporting does nothing. In ARR we mass reported bots by the Ixal dailies and nothing happened. Instead people would just pull the mobs in a certain way that they would kill the bots.

The only ass backwards thing here is failing to understand that until they actually implement the features, which they haven't specified which ones or when they will be, we're all subject to ToS until then.

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

that they are gonna implement themselves?? This company is really ass backwards with how they think and that JP streamer who got banned for using UI addons that show buff timers on the party list should be unbanned. It's even more sick that some of you on here probably agree with them too. Imagine getting banned progging the new fight bc you are using a feature that SE is gonna implement themselves in the next decade. Very sad to see SE killing their game like this but it's deserved if they keep doing atrocities like this.

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Modding is illegal in Japan, like illegal illegal. Not like jaywalking illegal or throwing your trash on the ground and getting caught illegal. No like jailtime and gigantic fines illegal. In their own country i suspect SE has to go down hard on modders to keep their face.

But outside of Japan it's a different story. Since modding is not illegal in many western countries.

But to answer your question, they gonna ban someone when said someone is basically delivering proof to SE by recording themselves having third party tools and well their full character name on stream or youtube vids. Or well you know...when they brag ingame about something, harass other players with parse numbers and all that. If someone is so unbelievably stupid to basically deliver proof to SE of their own violations of the ToS then honestly they deserve it, if you stay silent about it then nothing will happen but when you drag the topic out into the public and you get hit with the hammer then it's your fault and your fault alone.

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

that they are gonna implement themselves?? This company is really ass backwards with how they think and that JP streamer who got banned for using UI addons that show buff timers on the party list should be unbanned. It's even more sick that some of you on here probably agree with them too. Imagine getting banned progging the new fight bc you are using a feature that SE is gonna implement themselves in the next decade. Very sad to see SE killing their game like this but it's deserved if they keep doing atrocities like this.

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THat JP streamer got banned for showing the DPS parser which was hugely visible in the upper left corner. Yoshi has stated time after time again that you need to keep 3rd party programs to yourself and keep quiet about. They streamed it and got caught from people reporting it after the letter dropped.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

Yoshi has stated time after time again that you need to keep 3rd party programs to yourself and keep quiet about. They streamed it and got caught from people reporting it after the letter dropped.

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Can someone provide the source where Yoshi-P states this? I’m curious because I’ve seen this recently a lot in support of mods.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

Can someone provide the source where Yoshi-P states this? I’m curious because I’ve seen this recently a lot in support of mods.

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During one of the Liveletters, can't remember which one.

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Yes… though… I think you would know if you thought about it. And also, we sometimes get reports from people where someone is using these tools in a video… and frankly speaking, we honestly don’t know. It might appear as so, in appearance, but like they could just say that it’s the CPU temp and if they don’t make it look like that, they won’t know their CPU temps… So like what the hell do we do? Like we can’t exactly take their PC and investigate it. So like, just as we said earlier, if you take the data coming to the PC and you process that on a calculator, that’s not affecting the server, we can’t even trace it. And if we install a spyware in the FFXIV client to investigate what the user is doing, WE will be sued. Yeah.

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He's made lots of statements to this effect which basically boil down to "All we can do is ask you not to use them, but realistically we cannot stop you". Worth nothing this ONLY applies to tools that parse existing information. Packetspoofers and stuff absolutely can be detected if they desire.

Here's one of the places he's talked about it
Edit:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

The only ass backwards thing here is failing to understand that until they actually implement the features, which they haven't specified which ones or when they will be, we're all subject to ToS until then.

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Been 9 years since ARR and they still haven't managed(Or rather, haven't bothered) to shorten the animation lock due to latency while addons have managed to accomplish that just fine, it does seem a very ass backwards thing from them.

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

that they are gonna implement themselves?? This company is really ass backwards with how they think and that JP streamer who got banned for using UI addons that show buff timers on the party list should be unbanned. It's even more sick that some of you on here probably agree with them too. Imagine getting banned progging the new fight bc you are using a feature that SE is gonna implement themselves in the next decade. Very sad to see SE killing their game like this but it's deserved if they keep doing atrocities like this.

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Just don't tell anyone. This games community is horrible and will immediately report you for anything they can.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

Can someone provide the source where Yoshi-P states this? I’m curious because I’ve seen this recently a lot in support of mods.

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Here is a vid where they talked about the damage meter tool.

They said multiple times that it is a grey zone cause they don't want and can't see what is installed on your computer and that they want to avoid a petty reporting war between players and that they rather should enjoy the game as long as it doesn't affect them in a personal way like getting harassed with parse numbers or all that crap.

But yeah they also say it's a risk you take, both in breaking the ToS and maybe getting caught and in maybe compromising your account or pc through third party software. Which is a clear stance they need to have to avoid troubles with the law, since you can't basically officially condone pornographic content (which many of the mods available offer) and you can't condone behavior that is against your own ToS. So no matter if they go after the modding folk or not they have to say that they don't condone it.

So yeah we are in this weird limbo cause they can't condone it without getting into legal troubles and they seem to not want to purge all the modding folk, probably cause they pay good money and keep the game alive through their interactive communities. Would be a huge blow to the SE stock if they purge the western playerbase from all modders.

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Originally Posted by Euphares

Same company that puts their only US server in California and gets mad when people use VPNs to not get crippling latency issues.

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I never heard them complain about VPN... to clarify the tool XIVAlexander people have been using is not a VPN tool.
But I agree that their netcode leaves something to be desired some classes are literally unplayable depending where you're coming from.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

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Thank you. Appreciate it!

GMs probably had to think about precedent, since so many people reported this well known person. If the GMs let him off easy, people would notice; it'd create a lot of animosity from regular players who don't use addons because they would feel as though the rules aren't being enforced. There might even be a sense of "oh, so it's okay to break rules if you're a streamer" which isn't a sentiment you want rippling through your player base. If any GM wanted to help that guy out of his bind, he made it impossible for them by filming himself breaking established rules in front of an audience that hated him enough to report him all at once. The community was watching and the GMs knew it; their hand was forced and they had to give him a clear punishment.

Frankly, I'm amazed anyone streams this game at all. Unless you're one of the old guard, you're gonna get like 4 viewers and one of them might report you for something stupid and get your ass banned. Literally no point imo

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Would it matter? SE can chose to ban or not, and they have been very loose with how they ban. Also mass reporting does nothing. In ARR we mass reported bots by the Ixal dailies and nothing happened. Instead people would just pull the mobs in a certain way that they would kill the bots.

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The timing is a bit sus - as in after the announcement and the mass reporting, dude was only banned a few short hours later.

Bots don't get banned fast enough that's for sure, but that's also because, IIRC, it's not the GM's territory but the STF's, which I believe consists of like 3-4 people?

The issue with banning for parsers or for 3rd party tools that most are calling QoL. Is that you have years of precedent where the enforced rule is, "don't bully people, don't mention it in game, don't talk about it in game." For the past few years this has been fine. There are many many many videos with parsers on stream/videos its standard even. To go from no enforcement to banning people in the middle of the hardest longest prog you get in a patch cycle is why people are reacting the way they are. If they did this release, pulled some streamers to the in game gaol, warned them to immediately cease and desist, then let them go on. People would have stopped/hid them and went about their days.

Hello, this is GM Elrisivana. We would like to thank you all for your feedback regarding this matter. Although I will be closing this thread at this time, we encourage everyone to read Producer Yoshida’s Lodestone post if you would like more information regarding our stance on third party tools: https://sqex.to/pWB5p