Has the development team decided on Class vs Job relationship/progression?

My Question: Has the development team decided on Class vs Job relationship/progression in FFXIV 2.0?

My Explanation: I've been thinking lately of this Class vs Job conundrum as if I was in the developer's shoes. With the current design, there are many inherent problems with adding new (to FFXIV) jobs that utilize different weapons typically. IE: Musketeer using Gun, Dark Knight using Great Sword/Scythe, Samurai using Great Katana, Ninja using Katana, etc.

As far as I can tell, there are two choices the development team can make.

Class vs Job progression.

Option 1: They allow multiple Jobs to stem from one Class. Possibly adding an advanced Job tier to each Job later on. Example below:

http://s18.postimage.org/vl1tffsxx/O...che=1337804626**Don't take the beast master -> puppet master progression seriously**

Option 2: They don't allow multiple Jobs to stem from one Class, and force the 1 Class = 1 Job relationship (also forces new guilds to be made for each class). Possibly adding an advanced Job tier later on. Example below:

http://s17.postimage.org/597dttl7v/O...che=1337804670**Don't take the beast master -> puppet master progression seriously**

I really don't know if the current armory system will be able to handle option 1, especially with the differences in weapons that I pointed out previously (I do understand that Samurai could use a lance, and a Dark Knight could use a Sword/Axe). But are there changes being made to the armory system to accommodate these types of changes in 2.0?

Advantages vs Disadvantages:

Option 1: Keeps the number of unique classes low, but also means that jobs are going to be very similar unless certain things (explained later) are done. Some disadvantages with the current system would be limiting the jobs to 1 weapon type & having very similar abilities/traits. I understand they could give the jobs different ability pools, but overall the jobs would be too similar. With the current UI, it seems like this is what is intended.

Option 2: Forces new/redundant classes to be made to support the new jobs such as: Tamer class for Beast Master job, Scout class for Thief job, Evoker class for Summoner Job, etc. This would really put pressure/stress on the developers, because who wants to keep leveling new classes if they aren't any different from the others. This would help them to introduce new weapons, but really how many weapons types are out there? It would be like thm vs cnj weapons they aren't really that different. Which then leaves you to distinguish them with different styles (like scimitars for Blue Mage)

Possible Tweaks/Changes:

Option 1: Lower the number of abilities taken from the class & sub classes. Let's say the class abilities you have access to stop at 30. So currently (although I would recommend each class has their abilities tweaked) Warrior would lose:

Rampage, Path of the Storm, Enduring March, Whirlwind & Godsbane

In exchange for this, they would then gain 5 new unique abilities to help differentiate Warrior further from the other Marauder Job (Beast Master for example).

Option 2: Each new class & job would need their own unique abilities and most likely justification as to why they would contain identical/similar abilities (Cure, Berserk, and Invigorate come to mind). New guilds & possibly cities would need to be created to accommodate these new classes.

Overall, I can see both ways working but it hasn't really been made clear as to what path the development team is making. I think it would be a huge step forward if the developers could give us insight into this so people could make viable contributions and suggestions.

Multi-Job recommendations wouldn't really work if it was a 1 class = 1 job system, and new classes wouldn't really work if it was a 1 class = multiple job system.

Any news I can sink my teeth into would be great, but I do want to say I appreciate those who read this post.

TL;DR - Dev team should make it clear whether each class will have 1 or multiple jobs.

I would go for option 2 or even an option 3, that all new jobs would require an different starting class.

The reason is, on option 1, if your already 50 Maruder, you do the Beast Master job quest and you're already lvl 50 Beast Master?

If a new job appears, I for one would prefer to start as lvl 1 and work my my up. I beleive the devs would too. To give players more content to play (call it a time sink if you will, but I would prefer it).

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Originally Posted by Scotchio

I would go for option 2 or even an option 3, that all new jobs would require an different starting class.

The reason is, on option 1, if your already 50 Maruder, you do the Beast Master job quest and you're already lvl 50 Beast Master?

If a new job appears, I for one would prefer to start as lvl 1 and work my my up. I beleive the devs would too. To give players more content to play (call it a time sink if you will, but I would prefer it).

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Option 2 requires that new jobs exactly that. For every new Job added, they would need to add a new Class as well.

In the Option 2 picture it shows Beast Master getting Tamer as it's class. They are just throw away names, but at least gives us an idea of what each other is talking about when we try to discuss.

I do believe it's been stated previously that Option 1 is the plan. With there being, even perhaps, jobs that are avaiable to multiple classes.

Although the latter was in one of Yoshi's interviews so it's definitely up in the air.

I can see the problem. If they want to introduce a new job and then have to introduce a new class to start each job.
There will be a multitude of classes and jobs, too many, really.

And lets face it, once you've got your job unlocked, the class doesn't get used much.

But if new jobs are continued from current classes. They (I) don't really want to earn a new job at an already high level.

Maybe if they introduced new jobs that you have to have some starting classes levelled to unlock, but start the new job at level 1?

But that would go against the current jobs aquirements? I don't know?

They could go down the route of Advanced Jobs.

Which require 2 Jobs at a certain level to unlock (rather than classes).
Example: PLD 50 and BLM 50 (or some other levels 30:30?) to unlock Dark Knight. And Dark Knight Advanced job starts at level 1 and needs to be leveled?

I know some would disagree, but I do prefer starting new jobs from level 1 as its nice to start again and level up through the old stomping grounds.

The best option is clearly multiple jobs from one class. Theres no reason to make a new class every time you make a job, it just is a waste of efforts.

The job system was made for horizontal growth and that means... multiple jobs from one class

Above that, there is no 'advanced' jobs wtf would be the point? every jobs is exactly that a job. Maybe future jobs should require you to beat your guild storyline first so its harder to obtain than the first ones released and in that sense you can consider then advanced.

thumbs up from me =D

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Originally Posted by Scotchio

They could go down the route of Advanced Jobs.

Which require 2 Jobs at a certain level to unlock (rather than classes).
Example: PLD 50 and BLM 50 (or some other levels 30:30?) to unlock Dark Knight. And Dark Knight Advanced job starts at level 1 and needs to be leveled?

I know some would disagree, but I do prefer starting new jobs from level 1 as its nice to start again and level up through the old stomping grounds.

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The main problem with the "requirements" is that would just be a programming step and not a design step. Would you be able to switch to DRK if you were on your THM/GLA? what about your BLM/PLD? What weapon would it use? They limit the jobs currently to only using the weapons of it's class, so would it make sense for DRK to use a club/staff?

What I think you are implying is it would be a whole new class but you need specific requirements to unlock it?

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

The best option is clearly multiple jobs from one class. Theres no reason to make a new class every time you make a job, it just is a waste of efforts.

The job system was made for horizontal growth and that means... multiple jobs from one class

Above that, there is no 'advanced' jobs wtf would be the point? every jobs is exactly that a job. Maybe future jobs should require you to beat your guild storyline first so its harder to obtain than the first ones released and in that sense you can consider then advanced.

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SE did talk about having an "Advanced Job" so it's up in the air whether they decide to do that or not. Honestly I think it would be cool way to raise the level cap. But overall, SE just let's us speculate and doesn't really give us a foundation to build our ideas on.

I'm personaly for option 1.
And the bigger advatage is precisely that you won't have to level from scratch if they add a whole bunch of new jobs. But since job abilities are learned through quests, only "being a lvl50 DRK" is far from the end.

Regarding weaponry, i think they should design a "weapon+shield" and a "2-handed-weapon" set for each class. This is already the case with mages even if they don't really use their weapons.
We should have 2-handed sword for GLA, towards the path for DRK, 1-handed Axe for maraudeur to Viking, ect...

And i'm sure, as the level cap will surely rise in the V2.0, that class abilities will become less important than job abilities (and hopefully, job traits).
The only drawback is that shield abilites are part of the gladiator class. They sould have kept the Sentinel class, as Shield is, by definition, a secondary equipment.

For the ninja-samurai branch, they probably have to make a "Ronin" class that uses Tantos and Katanas.

I hope if they add BLU and we get to learn our spells I'm not a level 50 already... I kinda enjoy learning those by starting at level 1. Automatically starting at level 50 doesn't sound fun to me at all though :confused:

Especially if they improve upon the leveling ideas they currently have and add some more open world combat similar to campaign.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I'm personaly for option 1.
And the bigger advatage is precisely that you won't have to level from scratch if they add a whole bunch of new jobs. But since job abilities are learned through quests, only "being a lvl50 DRK" is far from the end.

Regarding weaponry, i think they should design a "weapon+shield" and a "2-handed-weapon" set for each class. This is already the case with mages even if they don't really use their weapons.
We should have 2-handed sword for GLA, towards the path for DRK, 1-handed Axe for maraudeur to Viking, ect...

And i'm sure, as the level cap will surely rise in the V2.0, that class abilities will become less important than job abilities (and hopefully, job traits).
The only drawback is that shield abilites are part of the gladiator class. They sould have kept the Sentinel class, as Shield is, by definition, a secondary equipment.

For the ninja-samurai branch, they probably have to make a "Ronin" class that uses Tantos and Katanas.

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That's actually not a bad idea, and I think I had a revelation earlier today. They honestly haven't "locked" classes into 1 weapon type, they could for instance add clubs to gladiator/marauder. CNJ & THM are the prime example of this, I don't know why it didn't strike me before... Basically, they could give marauder/warrior it's own sword category or even scythe category (some of the axes look rather similar to scythes) and basically give that specific weapon category an animation set. It's kind of silly, but I don't know why I didn't understand that part sooner.

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Originally Posted by Tureni

I hope if they add BLU and we get to learn our spells I'm not a level 50 already... I kinda enjoy learning those by starting at level 1. Automatically starting at level 50 doesn't sound fun to me at all though :confused:

Especially if they improve upon the leveling ideas they currently have and add some more open world combat similar to campaign.

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If they made it so you could only quest 5 BLU abilities I would be rather upset; I hated learning the abilities but BLU isn't BLU without lots of monster abilities. I just wish I knew what SE was planning down the road, 2.0 map was a great start but the info is just super outdated.

The job system's design needs a lot more transparency IMO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tureni

I hope if they add BLU and we get to learn our spells I'm not a level 50 already... I kinda enjoy learning those by starting at level 1. Automatically starting at level 50 doesn't sound fun to me at all though :confused:

Especially if they improve upon the leveling ideas they currently have and add some more open world combat similar to campaign.

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If they do add it as a job, then abilities will be quest-acquired. However, I wouldn't be against your first ability to be 'can learn blue magic' in some form and then your next four abilities are 'slots' in which you can place whatever blue spell you learn, and there is a wide range of blue spells you can learn.

Also it'd probably spawn from a class that isn't in the game yet, so you'd probably first get your taste of Blue at level 30

I like the part where you say - Don't take the puppetmaster seriously*

Well we just need another road map (2.0+) in which they give us a clue on the way things will be implement, in concern of classes/jobs. Hopefully all this confusion will be clear soon, as 2.0 approach us.

If they added an advance job tier for each job wouldnt we be in the same boat right now as with classes and jobs? In my opinion super jobs would just end up on top of the pecking order. People would say there is no point in going back to jobs once you unlock super jobs the streets would fill with mass hysteria! I wouldnt mind seeing a job branch off horizontal but I'll leave it to the devs to figure out how youd pull a dark knight out of a paladin without making it feel like a gld or pld. If they do keep classes I wish they would have more use then just act as the in between to equipping a job.

One thing i'd like to see, if they add multiples jobs for each class, is a restriction in the job you can choose. (I think a lot of people will burn me to death for such an idea :p)
If you look back in FF IV, PLD and DRK are tied by the background, so you logically can't be both.
They can design some quest this way, explaining that DRKs could be PLDs that reject the sultanate, or whatever, and you have to choose with path you'll take...

That will leave room for a little disparities in characters. It's good that we can do multiple class with only one character, but the problem is, in my opinion, that everyone will eventually be the same with different skin.

This way, you can have a concept of "advance job" which can add something really different to play.

Honestly a good suggestion, especially with Legacy & Premium accounts having the ability to create 8 free characters on 1 server. I think I would give up the ability to be more flexible if it gave me greater rewards, I just wouldn't want it to be "broken" where anyone only picks branch A rather than branch B.

It would be a hard choice, but would allow people to become more specialized... SE would have to work really hard to balance that properly though, or people would get upset. Maybe even a reset option at the cost of experience or something.

The way I see it, SE doesn't really feel the need to properly balance each job.
Look at several thread about PLD issues, and the most common answer is "level another job". I'm pretty sure the devs think something alike, since if we're not pleased with the job, boredom will surely bring us to level something else.

But let's say some jobs are mutually exclusive. You won't be able to say "level something else..." as much. Maybe the threat of people quitting because their choice give bad results will increase SE's investement in balance.

That's a long shot, but seeing where FFXI went, I really don't want XIV to be totally messed up in several years.