How does this make ANY sense?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...545_467_LI.jpg
Now before you guys and gals go on a trolling spree about PvP in FFXIV, my skill as a player or any particular grand company being bad at PvP, i've already heard it all. I also have a ton of PvP experience across many different MMO's and though FFXIV was never initially intended to take PvP seriously, I love this game and I would like to fill that craving for PvP in the game I enjoy.
That being said Square is obviously trying to make PvP more relevant in FFXIV so try and keep it constructive so hopefully they see this post or others like it and can make positive changes to make the PvP experience more enjoyable all around. Hence my problem with frontlines. This isn't the first time and i'm sure won't be the last that the match seems OVERLY one sided. Or two sided in this case. ;) Here we have two of the factions that have been lucky with our good friend RNG on node placement. A little too lucky. Twin Adder was utterly decimated with ABSOLUTELY ZERO chance of recovery. It was like this the entire match and though i'm not one for handicaps, I feel this is an extreme situation that could call for a little help.
Now I'm not a programmer or developer and I never claimed to be but I don't see it being very hard to have maps like this bordered off internally within the program that decides where to activate the nodes so that when a team is being severely decimated that maybe the chance of the nodes spawning closer to their base is increased by a percentage. Still not a guarantee but at least something to give that team hope for a comeback and keep the match intense and fun. Let me and Square know your thoughts. Thanks and have a great day.

Random isn't always fair, but it's equally fair and unfair whenever you take into account large enough sample sizes (and keeps things interesting and unpredictable).

I'd argue that the placement of this round of nodes is hardly what made/broke this game for the people losing. Adders lost before the game started.

770/800 makes capturing points kind of irrelevant, the game went quite poorly all around at this point...

But still, if the victory wasn't so close I see the best point here would be to circle down to behind blues and kill them as they're charging Reds for that S-Rank. Thse 2 A-Ranks can be defended by the same side and the blues are clearly too busy charging the full force of reds to pay attention to a proper pinch in there.

RNG counts for only about 10% of a Seal Rock win (I mean, aside from the RNG that put you on a team of people that kill against a team of people that dies.) The other 90% is about raw destructive power of being able to win your fights and push the other teams around. The way I see it, yellows in that position are poking at the wrong angle, and attacking with way too little pressure for either red or blue to worry about it too much.

Increase your pressure, get some massive BHs going and the points from objectives will come naturally.

The Problem is that they designed a 1v1v1 battleground to begin with.

One screenshot from one moment in a fight tells you nothing about what it was like the rest of the match.

I have never seen such a lopsided score. I doubt that tomelith placement was entirely to blame – and even if it was, then for all you can see from the proof here, it was a freak combination in one match out of many.

The score isn't lopsided. Two team are literally going to be decided by less then a dozen points. The third team was probably not even that bad. With this mode you can get multiple spawns where you get double teamed all game. The worst does seem to be the cave spawn for getting the bad rng spawns for being double teamed.



I have wondered in a three team match like frontlines if they should remove the RNG. So if teams 1 and 2 are over 300 points ahead should an S rank just fall into the safest spawn for last place and the rest of the nodes as far away as possible. They did this with the first frontlines Secure. When they re-balanced all the points from drones/nodes and up top. They punished the better teams and spread points out. But all that did is drag the matches the whole 20 mins. Is it fair to use non RNG to extend matches to the max time. Secure use to be favourite mode and now it is least.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

The score isn't lopsided. Two team are literally going to be decided by less then a dozen points.

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And the third team (whose state the OP is taking issue with) has all of 21 points.

That is absolutely lopsided compared to where the other two teams have gotten to.

I'm sure just this moment in isolation isn't what screwed adders over. I notice that the distance in score is only ever that bad if the last place team continually makes bonehead plays throughout the entire game.

What "let them fight" does to a team

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Originally Posted by Naizakane

What "let them fight" does to a team

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Meanwhile on the other teams, battle highs go BRR

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Originally Posted by BigBrown

I'm sure just this moment in isolation isn't what screwed adders over. I notice that the distance in score is only ever that bad if the last place team continually makes bonehead plays throughout the entire game.

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With that score if they literally just picked a node each spawn and all stood on it they would have scored better.

Should be grateful that rng mercy killed that round to be honest.

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Originally Posted by BigBrown

I'm sure just this moment in isolation isn't what screwed adders over. I notice that the distance in score is only ever that bad if the last place team continually makes bonehead plays throughout the entire game.

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...or continually breaks off to fight as two/three separate units. Also, people can blame RNG all they want, but if a team can't get more than 100 points, it is the team; not RNG.

On JP servers PVP has always been popular. We have non stop queues every night for frontlines for 8 hours til the early morning. What makes frontlines a lot different compared to EU and NA is every so often one of our PVP gods will lead a team which makes frontlines very strategic, flanks, hiding, counter attacks its totally different to how other severs approach the game mode. Make a JP character and come see how its really supposed to be played. That being said since 6.1 the overpowered LB's have kind of messed it up, 12 smn all LB.... Lastly that map in particular one of the starting areas means you lose!

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Originally Posted by Amelimie

On JP servers PVP has always been popular. We have non stop queues every night for frontlines for 8 hours til the early morning. What makes frontlines a lot different compared to EU and NA is every so often one of our PVP gods will lead a team which makes frontlines very strategic, flanks, hiding, counter attacks its totally different to how other severs approach the game mode. Make a JP character and come see how its really supposed to be played. That being said since 6.1 the overpowered LB's have kind of messed it up, 12 smn all LB.... Lastly that map in particular one of the starting areas means you lose!

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Current frontlines is really unbalanced. If they aren't/can't balance out the skills, reduce the amount of players. If each team went down to 16 instead of 24 it might not seem so unbalanced because those 16 are doing the damage of at least 24 players pre 6.1


Also before XP was added frontlines used to be way more strategic in NA. You had the same couple hundred people playing all the time. They would pull off flanks and great comebacks by knowing just when to push and steal a whole bunch of points.

Yes it is total mess right now but i think removing frontlines and rival wings would have been too much, if cant beat them, join them! Go as smn or whm and LB away, it wont stay like this forever just follow the meta for now and farm up those kills!

Actually, that screenshot tells me a lot about the skill level of the Twin Adder team, even in that moment.

First of all, like some already alluded to, the screenshot (especially with attention trying to be drawn to the map/"node" placement) is disingenuous. You are implying that one wave of tomeliths late in the game is the reason Adders got decimated because of bad RNG. It's not. At least not in the way you are probably trying to highlight. Let me highlight the problems I see here and what very likely happened to your team:

1) Your entire alliance isn't very "meta." I see 4 SMNs, 2 DRGs and a WHM. Though a good player will make whatever job their playing viable and perhaps do well (except maybe DNCs or GNBs), a lot of those jobs in your alliance are "eh" at best in Frontlines. If your team isn't dropping Bahamut and 'goon bombs and firing mah WHM laserz at every chance possible, you're already fighting an uphill battle if the other teams can/are. People still like to flock to BRD and MCH, and the ugly truth is most just aren't good at them and end up offering nothing substantial to group fights. This leads me to the next point.

2) I see absolutely no Battle High bonus on anyone in your party, and this is moments before the match is ending. I can't see the other two Adder teams, but I'm willing to bet almost nobody else has one either. This tells me that your team was the "feeding team;" ie. the fodder team that gets stomped and lets the other teams farm their Battle Highs. This is largely in part a result of your team's fighting ability (or lack thereof) and again, your team's selection of jobs probably plays a part into that. Also not helping is the next point:

3) Your team's movement on the map. I can see it just from this screenshot. Nevermind the fact the entire team is staggered and probably respawning and running back from being routed; the ones running back to engage are literally running right through mid like they're going to jump between Maelstrom and Flames, which is foolish. You never want to be that team caught between two others. Not only that, the tomelith where everyone is congregating isn't even active. There is one northeast, or a choice of two southeast. It would be strategically superior to pick one, and flank that team either via north or south routes. Granted, that ensures the victory for whatever team you don't go after, but at this point your team is losing, so it's moot, but I'm getting a glimpse of the lack of foresight that probably got Adders into this trainwreck.

4) I see "A" marked in the center of the map. I'm not privy on the circumstances or reasoning for this, but under most circumstances congregating at the center is difficult and borderline suicidal for a team that's weak at fighting. The tomelith there is often a bloodbath and a distraction, not to mention always at risk of being sandwiched by the other 2 teams. The marker being there is also probably giving unexperienced people the impression to fight for tomeliths there every chance they get, and are dying as a result.

So no, tomelith RNG is not the (primary) reason why your team lost this badly. I know people like to fall back on this excuse, but rather there was a cocktail of fundamental problems this particular team seems to have had. For goodness sake, your team had caves spawn, which is largely considered to have the most privileged tomelith spawns. Ironically, the "worst" spawns for caves teams are when 3-4 tomeliths activate in caves; because then you have both teams pinch you from north and south up until your spawn area, and I can almost guarantee you have your team split into 2 trying to defend both ends in groups of maybe 12 people against entire teams of 24... Three guesses how that usually ends up. Often, I don't think many players actually know how to identify what is "good" or "bad" RNG in Seize outside of how close multiple tomeliths spawn by your base. Even if you got one good set of close tomeliths in this last bunch, I'm almost certain one of the other teams would have waltzed right up to your team, sneezed on all of you and overtaken it.

What do you expect from players that just enter for xp etc and don't even use a simply thought on tactics?

It doesn't matter whether it's 2-sided/3-sided or 48/72 players. This is the result of dragging players into pvp that to say it blantly should never been there. Either they fix that core problem or pvp will always be a mess.

Contrary to popular belief, kills in Seal Rock are equally as important as going for the nodes. Especially with the more powerful LBs that can nuke entire teams in one sitting. Each kill is worth 10 points, so if you can murder a lot of people in a short amount of time, that's worth more than some nodes are.

Try to explain that... it's like Secure and drones in the center...

You can't really experience any actual pvp in any MMO game whenever it get to it, full pvp would require you to physically aim as well and not just target something press button.

Seal Rock does feel a bit unbalanced at times. The bottom right team especially has all that wide open space. That said, battle high plays a critical role as well.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

You can't really experience any actual pvp in any MMO game whenever it get to it, full pvp would require you to physically aim as well and not just target something press button.

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W...what? No. Just no.

Frontlines is very RNG heavy to begin with -which is what many people like in the mode- but Seal Rock definitely takes the cake indeed. That being said, seeing nodes on the other side of the map sometimes works in your favour though, as you know you can get in from behind without too much hassle.

The biggest offender is if you start north on this map, a significantly worse starting point than the other 2 due to the terrain. If on top of that nodes were to spawn north too, you're gonna get sandwiched like hell by the 2 enemy teams.