Relic Weapons: About the confirmation of 3 Seals needed for each Hamlet (9 total)

Greetings.

Maybe not everyone reads the English Localization section, but Eemeefu confirmed that there's a mistake in Rowena's dialogues and that we actually need 3 of each Seals instead of 1:

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Originally Posted by Eemeefu

Sorry for the confusion on this one, guys. As you suspected, it is simply a mistranslation from the original Japanese. You do indeed, need three of each of the three different primal seals.

I've just made the necessary changes to the text, which will go live in patch 1.22b.

Again, sorry for any confusion this caused, and thank you very much for bringing it to our attention.

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And here's a picture of me after obtaining all 9:

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...09b6002608.jpg

[No, actually, I don't have even 1 yet.]

Now... I remember Yoshida said that obtaining the relic weapons wouldn't have been something easy, so I would like to ask other adventurers:

Do you think doing the same content with the same Jobs again and again until you get a random drop is “hard”? Or more importantly, challenging?
Because, personally speaking, I've a different view of what a “challenge” is. I remember all the ones I had in the past while trying to reach faraway Aetherial Gates.

Since it seems the new direction of Final Fantasy XIV is that of the in my opinion pointless Speed Runs/AoE feast and general “Do this content again and again with the same Jobs to eventually get what you want.”, I just wanted to hear other adventurers' thoughts on it.

Ah, and always speaking about the Relic weapons, there's the “On the property of beastmen” item. That is something else. I'm “feeling” that I'm working to get it, getting Company Seals in many different ways, and finally I'm almost able to purchase it. I feel like I earned it and enjoyed it.

I, for one, prefer a system like this rather than just doing the same thing with the same Job over and over again. And this is said by an adventurer who likes Hamlet Defense... but only because I can play as a Disciple of the Land: we all know there's a “static” setup for this content, too, and of course if I'd want to play as a Monk... Heh, for Level 2 the party members wouldn't accept it, of course.


I talked about these concerns in other Topics, too:

- The Chimera, the Monk and the Guard

- Devs: Why do you insist on the "Not reward for you efforts" system?


What I'm asking for is for truly challenging contents that adventurers with not much time can also do, just taking them more (see the On the properties of beastmen example), and a revamp of this trend to advantage specific party setups for the fastest victory, therefore not encouraging adventurers to try out different Job combinations.

What makes you think that this is for the final upgrade of the relic weapons or really just the only thing for them?

Well, you asked a reason to do hamlet ? There's your reason.
Seriusly thou, right now it's just speculation on multiple levels

speculation aside getting the 9 seals seems outrageous from a time commitment standpoint but we have not even seen what a hamlet lvl 3 might bring. When the actual details of the quest are out in the open for AF we might get lvl 3 hamlet and who knows, a 50% seal drop rate? maybe more even if you hit a high enough point #. Right now its looking like a 10%~20%drop with 50k+ points on lvl 2.

I doubt AF weapons will all be related to Hamlet, odds are the higher tier Hamlets are for future content in which they add greater rewards as well as increase the chance of obtaining the lower tier rewards.

Think about the AF weapons themselves though, there has to be a reason why they've been taking their time to introduce them, odds are it's going to be more then just 9 seals, it may involve a unique quest line for each weapon that may even face you off on a one on one battle against some opponent lol. There's a lot of ways they can go about it, but odds are the reason we haven't seen the weapons implemented yet is because of the quest line involved in getting them.

The term hard and challenging can be taken in multiple ways

It could mean the fight is rediculously hard and you can earn it that way
or it could mean it takes so long its a pain in the ass and its hard in that way

there are several ways this can be looked at.

but if you have a solid group, who does this regularly, and makes sure it stays at rank 2, all 8 of you can easily have enough within a month of work, the fact that so many have 3+ already after a single week proves that.

its not gonna be fast and easy to obtain, thats all we know right now

Hi Onizuka,

I posted my thoughts in the Promissory Note thread, but since your title seems more on topic with Relic / AF Weaponry Upgrading I'll post it here:

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Hi Bayohne,

Thanks for the updated information.

If you could pass along our sentiments to Yoshida-san & the Battle Team:

* Please, please let them know that many of us are tiring of the current Random Number Generator Drop Rate % that's currently found in all the Max Level Content (and especially now with the Primal Seals, needing 3 of EACH type).

I'm fine with long-term goals. I'm also OK with items being rare / hard to acquire as well.

But the system we've been exposed to since Ifrit, through Darklight Gear, Materia Melding, and now with the Primal Seals / Hamlet Instances is really about Gambling / Rolling the Dice, repeatedly over and over in the hopes that luck is on your side to get the drop.

The big difference in something like Dynamis (early days) for Relic Weapons is that the player sees Incremental Gains EACH TIME they participate in Dynamis (via Ancient Currency).

And to counteract the point Hulan brought up - there's still an element of the "Lottery / Gambling" / Random Number Generator (that this Dev Team seems so enamored with :( - via you might be only getting Single "One Byne Bills" or you could get some "One Hundred Byne Bills" (different levels of currency) in the process of slaughtering Dynamis Xarcabard, and other Dynamis Instances.

You also work towards different goals in Dynamis. There are different Branches / Paths, different NMs, different Drops.

You could be working toward beating Dynamis Lord. Or Getting Fragments or Attestations.

But here, it's running the same Instance repeatedly and just rolling the dice.

I think Random Number Generator certainly has a place in this game, but for Long Term Goal-Oriented Systems like a "Relic / AF Weapon + Upgrading," having a Point System where players can work towards it and SEE that they're making gains each time they commit is highly desirable and much-needed.

It still achieves the Time Sink that Yoshida-san wants with dragging out content, but many Players would be far more receptive, and willing to work towards those Goals vs. what we have now.

Thank you!

Guys chill out, the drop rate on these things is WAY better than totems, and you need TEN of those.

lol
10/char

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Originally Posted by Zyph

Guys chill out, the drop rate on these things is WAY better than totems, and you need TEN of those.

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yeah 10 totems = 1000 kills

Relic weapons and AF weapons are two different things.

Yes, I read the interesting lore tidbits told by Rowena and she mentions the relics of old, and considering that Yoshida said that in patch 1.22 we would have had the Job weapons, I think she's referring to those.

Anyway, now that a rep posted on it, I noticed this thread, that basically says in an even better way what I tried to say in the 1st post here expressing my concerns once again on the direction of Final Fantasy XIV with this trend on these new contents, and this is the answer received:

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Hey everyone,

We understand that the topic of drop rates and needing to challenge specific content repeatedly is a major discussion within the community. Moving forward, our plan is to introduce a wide variety of content and means of obtaining rewards (drops, gear, items, etc.) rather than relying solely on the style of rewards from content like primal battles and instanced raids. As always, your feedback and comments will be invaluable on the march to 2.0 and beyond, so we want you all to keep sharing your thoughts with us.

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Hopefully they also refer to the already existing contents, fixing it up, rather than only the new ones.
We will see!

I still don't understand why garuda has 100% drop rate on tokens but the other two avatars don't. This puzzles me.

I really hope AF weapons are not random number generated, i be super pissed!

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Originally Posted by viion

I really hope AF weapons are not random number generated, i be super pissed!

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well, primal seals are, and you need them to get the weapons... so...

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I still don't understand why garuda has 100% drop rate on tokens but the other two avatars don't. This puzzles me.

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They assume everyone's 7/7 on both primals :(

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Originally Posted by Antanias

They assume everyone's 7/7 on both primals :(

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Actually I believe it's because Garuda is far harder, but that's just my own speculation

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I still don't understand why garuda has 100% drop rate on tokens but the other two avatars don't. This puzzles me.

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They can do one stuff at a time only :)
For this one I guess I can understand that they may need to adjust the drop rate even more if they are going to make the totem/nuts 100% drop so I'll let them pass for this one... but some stuff devs can't do right away in some patches makes me go WHY!?

Like the job/class icon stuff delayed to 1.22c, minor stuff so don't really care but at same time from programmers stand point... it seems like a really really simple task... that hardly needs any QA testing or bug testing...

Anyways AF weapons... I hope this 1.22c isn't some kind of hint that it's gonna delayed once more since what the players had in mind about how you obtain AF weapons and what devs had in mind was totally off.

Those who have gotten these "primal seals" from Hamlet defense, could you confirm wether these drop to lootlist or directly to inventory?

Jonna

So, you want to do a run of hamlet, get the seal and done? Then what can you do? quit the game till next update?

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Originally Posted by Jonna

Those who have gotten these "primal seals" from Hamlet defense, could you confirm wether these drop to lootlist or directly to inventory?

Jonna

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They drop into the players loot list.

Bottom line is, Hamlet Defense reward system is utter crap which makes the event not fun. If they dont fix it, they wasted their effort.

I'm assuming Garuda was a test run of a 100% token system.

Which means the playerbase may well have screwed itself out of a decent drop system during golden week...

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Originally Posted by Ranont

They drop into the players loot list.

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Thank you for confirming this ^^

We got 7 Inferno Seals last night, Hamlet Digger's Helm, a ridiculous amount of useless Militia Hats, and 1 Militia Choker. Only gripe I have w/ Hamlet's is they're boring, unless done on MNK :D... and even then it has it's moments.

These are confirmed to be the relic weapons? I don't mean AF weapons, I mean the LEGENDARY (what yoshi compared relic weapons too in the interview) Wtf? We don't even have SMN yet...:( I thought they were fixing all the instance stuff in 2.0 and the way we do stuff....

Not anymore? I don't want to continue playing this game if this is how everything is going to be sadly...

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

These are confirmed to be the relic weapons? I don't mean AF weapons, I mean the LEGENDARY (what yoshi compared relic weapons too in the interview) Wtf? We don't even have SMN yet...:( I thought they were fixing all the instance stuff in 2.0 and the way we do stuff....

Not anymore? I don't want to continue playing this game if this is how everything is going to be sadly...

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There don't exist any confirmation of anything. The only thing that exists is an NPC that wants to trade something worth 25k GC Seals and 3 of each of those Seals for a promissory note related to a man that 'can fix the weapons of old'.
That is literally all there is to it, people are simply drawing conclusions

any one think that weapon may be a magictech armor/weapon think about it could work.

If this is the job/class weapon, how many time will you need to do th is for all jobs/class

Back to Original Topic.

Just a thought of me, Lv3 Hamlet would be better than Lv2, I'm pretty sure, at least one seal is 100% drop per successfully run with higher than 100k points by more mob counts, Lv2 were exact 49, more than one NM or more than one bonus mob make it possible. (33,334 points with 3x multplier because of Lv3 and comes from the Darksteel box for example :) ).

Since there is already almost on every servers has many experienced Hamlet participants like me made over 30k points without multipler in Lv2, it's usually enough, if there are already 25k points tho! :)
Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Skies

There don't exist any confirmation of anything. The only thing that exists is an NPC that wants to trade something worth 25k GC Seals and 3 of each of those Seals for a promissory note related to a man that 'can fix the weapons of old'.
That is literally all there is to it, people are simply drawing conclusions

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Oh ok...thank you lol the way OP said it made it seem like they knew for sure these are the legendary weapons...;x I figured it was all speculation though...

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

The term hard and challenging can be taken in multiple ways

It could mean the fight is rediculously hard and you can earn it that way
or it could mean it takes so long its a pain in the ass and its hard in that way

there are several ways this can be looked at.

but if you have a solid group, who does this regularly, and makes sure it stays at rank 2, all 8 of you can easily have enough within a month of work, the fact that so many have 3+ already after a single week proves that.

its not gonna be fast and easy to obtain, thats all we know right now

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So, if you had to press a button 3,000 times to get a food pellet, you would consider that to be challenging? I mean, you get to sit there in your chair, at home. Just have to press the button 3,000 times. For a food pellet. Challenge? Or you could go cook yourself an actual dinner. Hint: Pressing a button 3,000 times isn't a challenge. Cooking dinner is. Repeating content you speed run dozens or hundreds of time isn't challenging. Clearing super difficult content is.

The apologists continue to horrify me, and I can only continue to hope that SE realizes if they listen to the apologists that this game will never succeed.

Please remember that this is play time, not work time. If something is too easy, it's not fun. But if something is too repetitive, it's also not fun. If it's easy enough to spam, and you HAVE to spam it, that means it's both easy and repetitive. That's really boring, right? Apologists might not think so, but the grand majority of folks who are potential subscribers certainly do. Boring = loss of current subs. Boring = not enough new subs. Boring = only apologists left to flounder in a dying game.

Varied content and high challenge are really the only way to go, to keep things fun and people interested. If you just want to win against a random number generator, better off spending your money on the lottery, or slots. At least then you have a chance of getting something of real value.

Spamming content over and over and only getting dark matter and fireworks is like trying to fix a car, it keeps breaking down (dark matter/fireworks) so you keep trying to fix it (Beat the pRNG) eventually your gonna scrap it for something new. I know I did.

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

Please remember that this is play time, not work time. If something is too easy, it's not fun. But if something is too repetitive, it's also not fun. If it's easy enough to spam, and you HAVE to spam it, that means it's both easy and repetitive. That's really boring, right? Apologists might not think so, but the grand majority of folks who are potential subscribers certainly do. Boring = loss of current subs. Boring = not enough new subs. Boring = only apologists left to flounder in a dying game.

Varied content and high challenge are really the only way to go, to keep things fun and people interested. If you just want to win against a random number generator, better off spending your money on the lottery, or slots. At least then you have a chance of getting something of real value.

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I totally agree with you on this. The way the game is right now is not for casual players, and I'm sure SE wants a wide variety of customers. A casual player will never be 5 hours repeting the same content every day of the week. The ones that do are hardcore player. Most of the people that are still playing are hardcore players. It's not fun to repeat stuff that have random reward(if you get anything) They way SE is creating content is not for new players. This game is not friendly for non Final fantasy fans. I've invited 5 people to play this game, and they all don't like it. They find it unfriendly, repetitive, boring and cute(that's the only good thing). Besides that, The type of players that FFXIV is inviting are player that endure boredom and believe they need to do that in order to accomplish anything. And this is just a game!!! it's suposed to be fun! Look at Garuda, She is lonelier than ever because she is so hard to beat, nobody want to kill her. Most LSs at present do cc, av, hamlet, ifrit and moogle, and they don't even want to hear the word Garuda. So SE still haven't found the balance between hard and repetitive.

AF weapons and relic items (Legacy weapons/items in FF14 terms) are two completely different things. Legacy items (Excalibur, Ochiudo's kote, etc) aren't coming out til post-2.0 (This is actually stated in the 2.0 PDF files) and will actually be very hard to obtain. AF weapons aren't even supposed to be on the same level of difficulty to obtain as said legacy items so don't get these two terms confused.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Onizuka,

I posted my thoughts in the Promissory Note thread, but since your title seems more on topic with Relic / AF Weaponry Upgrading I'll post it here:

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Hi Bayohne,

Thanks for the updated information.

If you could pass along our sentiments to Yoshida-san & the Battle Team:

* Please, please let them know that many of us are tiring of the current Random Number Generator Drop Rate % that's currently found in all the Max Level Content (and especially now with the Primal Seals, needing 3 of EACH type).

I'm fine with long-term goals. I'm also OK with items being rare / hard to acquire as well.

But the system we've been exposed to since Ifrit, through Darklight Gear, Materia Melding, and now with the Primal Seals / Hamlet Instances is really about Gambling / Rolling the Dice, repeatedly over and over in the hopes that luck is on your side to get the drop.

The big difference in something like Dynamis (early days) for Relic Weapons is that the player sees Incremental Gains EACH TIME they participate in Dynamis (via Ancient Currency).

And to counteract the point Hulan brought up - there's still an element of the "Lottery / Gambling" / Random Number Generator (that this Dev Team seems so enamored with :( - via you might be only getting Single "One Byne Bills" or you could get some "One Hundred Byne Bills" (different levels of currency) in the process of slaughtering Dynamis Xarcabard, and other Dynamis Instances.

You also work towards different goals in Dynamis. There are different Branches / Paths, different NMs, different Drops.

You could be working toward beating Dynamis Lord. Or Getting Fragments or Attestations.

But here, it's running the same Instance repeatedly and just rolling the dice.

I think Random Number Generator certainly has a place in this game, but for Long Term Goal-Oriented Systems like a "Relic / AF Weapon + Upgrading," having a Point System where players can work towards it and SEE that they're making gains each time they commit is highly desirable and much-needed.

It still achieves the Time Sink that Yoshida-san wants with dragging out content, but many Players would be far more receptive, and willing to work towards those Goals vs. what we have now.

Thank you!

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I believe you hit the nail on the head, and I completely agree!

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Originally Posted by Jonna

Those who have gotten these "primal seals" from Hamlet defense, could you confirm wether these drop to lootlist or directly to inventory?

Jonna

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I have gotten 1 in about 75 wins and they drop to a players loot list. I am as hardcore as they get but Im done with hamlets as they are just plain boring. Same crap everytime nothing different, the only good thing hamlets are for is animas right now!

I wouldn't expect anything major in terms of content till 2.0, we're just in the filler phase which sucks.

The drop rate isn't that bad however, I think most of us are sitting at 4-5 seals and should be done with the majority of the guild in a couple weeks. It's nothing compared to darklight. Definitely would not recommend doing it in a pick up group though.

Aleport seems broken to me drop wise. 7 or so seals a day at the other ones, and we're lucky if we get 2-3 a day at Aleport.

One other thing I forgot to mention in the first post is the 15 minutes wait after each victory. I don't get this really. It would be perfectly fine for a 5 minutes wait, a good incentive to get up and stretch a bit/eat something/go to the WC/etc., but 15 minutes...?

Of course, this also applies to the instanced raids, and I'm starting to believe who's the mind that came up with all these new contents ideas: The Speed Runs/AoE Feast, “Just use these Job for the fastest/ensured victory”, “Rush”, “Wait 15 minutes before playing the same content again”, “Random reward system forcing to spam content”, etcetera etcetera...
And also recent intelligence discovered thanks to a cooperative works of the 3 Grand Companies took a possible photo of the responsible behind all these ideas:

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...R75CIZ7rMk.jpg

Back (?) to seriousness, I'm one of the adventurers who enjoyed his time in Eorzea since the first day, because I went in this world with a particular philosophy. But these new contents and the bad design behind them really surprised me (although I'm still enjoying my time in Eorzea, of course).
I just wish they'd listen to us, since we're not asking for easy stuff, but more more rewarding content if you work hard to earn what you're trying to get (Example: Being in the Top3 of Hamlet Defense and have a very high chance to get one of the 3 “AF” hats).


Now another “small” matter I noticed on Hamlet Defense, that however might only concern me.
La Noscea is my favourite region, but doing Hamlet Defense during day time with perfect fair weather is painful for my eyes: the light effects, renowned to have problems, really make the sun shines over the whole Hamlet, including the sand.
Unfortunately this won't be addressed until 2.0 due to the engine, but it would be cool if we could have at least different weather conditions while doing Hamlet Defense... It would be a way to vary and also my eyes would be /happy.


Lastly, about the relic weapons term I used, I wasn't referring to the ones briefly mentioned by Yoshida in the past, like the “Excalibur” that would be ultra-special and change in time (or something like that). For that, I think it was clear from his post we'd have to wait far beyond 2.0
I said relic because I like to read the dialogues and this is what Rowena refers them as, so, considering we were promised Job Weapons for patch 1.22a, I just did 3+3. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

...Unless...! Rowena is referring to another relic of old, whose records are still lost... The Legendary Golden Subligar! Could this be the first hint that we'll all be getting it?? I can imagine everyone's happiness when discovering all those Hamlet Defense identical runs were for this legendary piece of equipment!

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

So, if you had to press a button 3,000 times to get a food pellet, you would consider that to be challenging? .

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Yes, it can be challenging

is it easy to sit there and do it? hell no it isnt

but i stress this, the term challenging has many different meanings