The Samourai are getting it that bad ?

To justify that 1/3 of the topic are about them complaining ?

Yes.
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Originally Posted by Venur

To justify that 1/3 of the topic are about them complaining ?

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Imagine a black mage where frost & fire are basically the same potency and there's no fun finishing move, or a dragoon that just stands there, flat footed, never backflipping off edges or leaping dramatically. Or a rogue that has no mighty frog to jump on. Or a monk who never stands on its head and spins its feet in a massively large aoe (lalafell has HUGE kick range, btw)

So the Samurai, cool and methodical and skilled, with a really wonderful flourish right before they finish something off, now just says, "Meh, it will die eventually. I'll get there when I get there."

Also, I'm pretty sure many people play more than one class, and care about more than one class, and understand that others do, too. I liked my Samurai, and love others better, but it saddens me to see something so great flattened and dulled, and people who adored that class now struggling to find another they like as much. And in some cases, as with my friend, playing other games entirely.

Unfortunately, yes - the job was basically gutted. Samurai used to be my favorite job, but after smacking a training dummy for a bit after 6.1 dropped, I haven't touched it in PVE content.

There's a lot of repeat info in the various threads, but there's also many unique, valid complaints to be had, so even if each talking point was consolidated into a single thread, you'd still have a bunch of threads.


Here's a quick summary:

- The redistribution of potency and the removal of Kaiten severely undermined Iaijutsu and Ogi Namikiri - our "big hits" are now critting for roughly half of what they used to.

- The removal of Kaiten removed the active preparation for Iaijutsu and Ogi Namikiri - this might seem trivial, but it's actually fairly important in terms of how they feel to use.

- The removal of Kaiten removed the choice for kenki spending in terms of how to spend it - spending kenki is just Shinten spam now.

- The removal of Kaiten removed kenki's relevance to the rotation.

- Since kenki is no longer relevant to the rotation, there's no longer a need to pool it for Iaijutsu, which removes the need for kenki management entirely.

- Since kenki is no longer relevant to the rotation, the choice for kenki spending in terms of when to spend it is now irrelevant - timing no longer matters.

- Tenka Goken becoming circular removed any need for movement from our AOE combo.

- Tenka Goken becoming circular necessitates hard-casting Iaijutsu in the middle of the enemy pack where hostile AOE is much more of a concern.


The sum of these changes is that they make the job more mindless, more monotonous, and less satisfying with its payoffs.

Samourai aren't, but samurai are yes.
The change was half baked and makes the class feel unfinished and unengaging

They ruined the job and didn't solve any of the problems they were targeting these changes towards. So yes, it's that bad. We have an empty shell of a previously great job. Revert back to 6.08, we didn't ask for any of this.

To reiterate all the sentiment espoused in each one of those threads, the reflective JP threads and the new growing outcry from Chinese and Korean servers (who got a preview of what is in store for them)...


100% yes. 6.1 was a horrible direction for SAM (and honestly speaking, the game in general if the other dps roles are next on the chopping block).

Honestly, the entire community should be joining in and fighting the dev direction the SAM changes represent. If you play DPS, they are coming for you soon. The only caveat there is if you feel like your dps class is already terrible. Then maybe you have a chance for positive.

But SAM was in a good spot. Game play wise, the SAM community for the most part loved it. Mechanically (and dps comparison wise) we were fine. All SE excuses for the SAM changes fell entirely flat and don't at all actually explain why. Rather, they all came out as illogical excuses that didn't pan out in reality.

They are dumbing things down to dumb things down. And SAM was the first in the firing line. DRG is rumored next for gutting.

We should all be standing together against these types of changes just for simplicity (unless I guess you prefer just mindlessly mashing a couple of buttons to experience the game I guess...) because if it is accepted for SAM in the end... The rest are going to be trimmed down to mindless, face rolling levels, as SAM has now been...

it's a small removal with big implications; imagine if AST got it's card modification effects removed--wait bad example--imagine if SCH got it's only other faerie guage spender removed--oof bad example--imagine if MNK had greased lightning removed--oh, uh

I believe everyone who's already raised has made the case, but I'll just echo some of it here with a direct answer to OP.

Yes, we are very unhappy. The changes made are nonsensical in its current form, from the kaiten removal to the potency shifts to the overall speed and feel of the job now. The way SAM plays now, I heard some other comments stating it feels like a slower MNK now. Just mindlessly droning through the GCDs as the finishers barely make a dent. The only difference is we have an oGCD to weave whenever so we aren't bored... except we are. We are bored, and disappointed.

The job just isn't right. Overall numbers being roughly the same is not a good enough excuse to leave it as it currently is. If the overall damage that they wanted to change is really not different, why did they change it at all? That's why we're so annoyed with it.

It's like someone took all the stickers off a rubik's cube and rearranged them to where the colors can never all align on the corresponding sides. It isn't broken at its core by any means, but anyone looking at it can see it shouldn't be like that.

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Originally Posted by SpiralMask

it's a small removal with big implications; imagine if AST got it's card modification effects removed--wait bad example--imagine if SCH got it's only other faerie guage spender removed--oof bad example--imagine if MNK had greased lightning removed--oh, uh

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I don't remember what it was called, but the Bard used to have this amazing, wonderful leap & shoot ability. Gone, gone, gone. It was the best and I loved it. I don't remember when they zapped it - a long time ago (something about animation length, I guess) - and the wolf guys in Yanxia still use it, the devils.

So I don't want to think of those things they took away that I still miss - I'd rather think of that hideous, dark time when Bards became an immobile casting class & it was the worst change I can imagine. They fixed that. I want to remember THAT possibility.

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Originally Posted by Ceridwen

I don't remember what it was called, but the Bard used to have this amazing, wonderful leap & shoot ability. Gone, gone, gone. It was the best and I loved it. I don't remember when they zapped it - a long time ago (something about animation length, I guess) - and the wolf guys in Yanxia still use it, the devils.

So I don't want to think of those things they took away that I still miss - I'd rather think of that hideous, dark time when Bards became an immobile casting class & it was the worst change I can imagine. They fixed that. I want to remember THAT possibility.

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Didn't mage bard last for all of HW 3.x? I mean, it's good that they changed it after, but like... ain't nobody want to deal with bad decisions for an entire xpac

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Originally Posted by xAFROx

Didn't mage bard last for all of HW 3.x? I mean, it's good that they changed it after, but like... ain't nobody want to deal with bad decisions for an entire xpac

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Yes, I guess it did. And we never got that ability back - so... Ok, not great!

Going into my SAM82 to 90 leveling post update, i didn't think it would be very different without kaiten. But getting to 90 I realize how much I'm missing the ability and how much I hate the constant shinten spam. Worse still is the you don't even have to manage kenki for your "big" spender as you got the 50 kenki gain ability on the same cooldown time as the spender. So all the kenki you get from combos are for shinten spam, and it gets old fast.

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Originally Posted by Ceridwen

I don't remember what it was called, but the Bard used to have this amazing, wonderful leap & shoot ability. Gone, gone, gone. It was the best and I loved it. I don't remember when they zapped it - a long time ago (something about animation length, I guess) - and the wolf guys in Yanxia still use it, the devils.

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Wide Volley? Only removed BRD ability that I recall with that description. Range AoE where the BRD does a backflip and shoots up into the air, then arrows rain down in a circle on the target. Removed around the same time as MCH's Granado Shot.

I wish they didn't take Grenado shot away from MCH. That was such a cool ability. :/

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

Wide Volley? Only removed BRD ability that I recall with that description. Range AoE where the BRD does a backflip and shoots up into the air, then arrows rain down in a circle on the target. Removed around the same time as MCH's Granado Shot.

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I THINK that was it. (googled, & yes, that was it) And those wolf guys still do it. I don't remember Granado shot, but I wouldn't have had a machinist back then. I don't think my bard was at the level to use WV, either - I just desperately wanted it. (I also leveled a monk so I could stand on my head & hit everything within miles with my tiny feet)

I can't believe how much worse the Samurai feels without Kaiten. This one hasn't gone past 81 with it, but my new bunny boy (who I view as her apprentice) had it with Bard as his main jobs. It's depressing.

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Originally Posted by Ceridwen

I THINK that was it. (googled, & yes, that was it) And those wolf guys still do it. I don't remember Granado shot, but I wouldn't have had a machinist back then. I don't think my bard was at the level to use WV, either - I just desperately wanted it. (I also leveled a monk so I could stand on my head & hit everything within miles with my tiny feet)

I can't believe how much worse the Samurai feels without Kaiten. This one hasn't gone past 81 with it, but my new bunny boy (who I view as her apprentice) had it with Bard as his main jobs. It's depressing.

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I leveled SAM to 90 alongside my GNB as I did msq. Those are my only jobs at cap currently. I had only recently realized I could use kaiten on ogi namikiri back in March. Whereas I had been using it at base for most of my time playing. I am not geared well. I don't do good damage in comparison to folks who play more frequently. I did used to think I was at least pretty competent with SAM though. While I can play roulettes and still consider myself versed enough to play competently, it feels off to play.

Really hope these get addressed properly soon. From the potency shifts to the tenka goken change to the kaiten removal. Don't fix what isn't broken and don't change before you're ready to implement actual change, please.

I was a dedicated SAM main but now I have fully switched to MNK. I like big numbers and Phantom Rush has more potential damage than even Ogi now. What a fall from grace. The rotation feels underwhelming without kaiten

I don't play samurai, the only reason I have this job unlocked is to flip-flop my sword in Gridania in non-legacy mode. But as someone who mained summoner, I can feel their pain.

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

I was a dedicated SAM main but now I have fully switched to MNK. I like big numbers and Phantom Rush has more potential damage than even Ogi now. What a fall from grace. The rotation feels underwhelming without kaiten

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Leveling MNK would be the smart move for me since it shares gear. But I never mained it, and honestly, what little I tested of RPR feels like a complete and coherent package... like SAM and RDM did when those first launched.

I think once I get around to finishing role quests, I'll make that my next dps main until SAM is fixed.