Are shards different?

This may sound like a strange question, but I had the thought after thinking about why the first and the source are different despite being the same world and the same landmass. I'm aware that this is answered in-game indirectly.
The reason why they're different in civilizations, knowledge, structures, perceptions, names, and other things is because of the calamities and any external interventions.
But let's say for example that there are two shards untouched by the ascians and mostly by any external interventions excluding Hydaelyn herself. Would they be different? Would people make different decisions and have different names? Would the two shards be different or very identical?

I think that's more of a philosophical question than anything else.

That's like asking if another version of you in an identical world would make the same decision at the same point every time, but then you would need to expand that to every single living being and every single possible natural occurrence across their entire history because any time the tiniest thing possible changes, then that will have an exponential effect on the changes and different paths take on other shards.


The lore does state that there is a difference between the Shards, and even absent of Ascian intervention, they could have progressed differently:

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Originally Posted by Ardbert

One of those reflections—the one nearest to the Source—is our home. And we were the heroes blessed with Her Light. But not all worlds hold Light and Dark in equal measure. In ours, the power of Light was greater by far.

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I would think the inequality of Light and Dark could subtly steer each Shard in different ways, to the point where after 12,000 years (not including time differences), they will be in completely different places due to different things happening on each Shard due to the balance of aether on each one, and those different events causing even more different events that wouldn't have happened on the other Shards, so on and so on which each different event having a knock-on effect. And then the time differences between worlds would also probably have an effect as well.

The only thing that remains universal is the aetheric balance, and the ruins of the ancients. There are going to be ruins of the old world anywhere catastrophes and natural disasters didn't grind them to dust.

I also suspect that due to each shared having significantly less aether, they will be rather weak compared to those on hydaelen. Like how nobody on the first had ever summoned voidsent because they simply packed the aetheric density without literal generations of controlled breeding and planned marriages to cultivate mages strong enough to barely open the way

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Originally Posted by shadowclasper

I also suspect that due to each shared having significantly less aether, they will be rather weak compared to those on hydaelen. Like how nobody on the first had ever summoned voidsent because they simply packed the aetheric density without literal generations of controlled breeding and planned marriages to cultivate mages strong enough to barely open the way

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This can't be taken as a given. In fact, all evidence suggests otherwise: the WoL and the Crystal Exarch are confirmably more aetherically dense than those in the First (the Scions might, that one gets complicated and can't easily be argued either way), and yet neither of them are gods among men on the First. Ran'jit gives us a run for our money more than once, and the Exarch is no more powerful as a Trust partner than Lyna is.

The lack of voidsent on the Thirteenth might be a matter of the rifts that voidsent use to travel only existing between the Source and Thirteenth; or at least definitely not between the First and Thirteenth. Or it could just be that the First doesn't have the generations and multiple civilizations of institutional knowledge set in motion by immortal ghost wizards that the Source does in Allag and Mhach, so the people of the First just aren't at a level of knowledge where they'd do that as readily. (Especially because they've already got Sin Eaters all over the place, why do they need the Sin Eaters' goth cousins?)

If I recall correctly, it's far more difficult to open a gate to the 13th from the 1st because the shards are linked to the Source, not to each other.

Or it might be that worlds link to the next one along in the chain, so 13th to Source to 1st to 2nd, etc. etc.

I can't remember exactly, but I'm reasonably certain the 1st and the 13th aren't directly linked.

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Originally Posted by shadowclasper

I also suspect that due to each shared having significantly less aether, they will be rather weak compared to those on hydaelen. Like how nobody on the first had ever summoned voidsent because they simply packed the aetheric density without literal generations of controlled breeding and planned marriages to cultivate mages strong enough to barely open the way

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The characters on the First you're referencing were attempting to open stable Voidgates, which is an entirely different realm of aether required compared to Voidsent summoning. Considering the fact that the people there knew about Voidsent enough to create a breeding program in order to make children who can open stable Voidgates, it's otherwise not a problem, except for perhaps the distance between the two Shards.

There's also the fact that the Allagans of the 3rd Astral Era and the Mhachi of the 5th were less joined than we are and did not have the benefit of a recent Calamity, which also weakens the barrier between the Void and the Source and they summoned WAY more Voidsent than anyone in our modern day has.

Garleans also have no ability to manipulate aether at all but still somehow are able to contact the Thirteenth. I don't know if that was an oversight though.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Garleans also have no ability to manipulate aether at all but still somehow are able to contact the Thirteenth. I don't know if that was an oversight though.

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I think they’re actually going to double down rather than retcon it, given Reaper and well… gestures to spoilers.

I've been pretty certain for a while that Reapers managed their voidsent contracts through some kind of external process, that in the modern day is part of their soul crystal, hence why our Avatar seems to be anchored to ours before we even pick the thing up. So even if voidsent contracting and consort usually uses aether manipulation (which we don't know for sure either), they found a way to have it not do that.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I've been pretty certain for a while that Reapers managed their voidsent contracts through some kind of external process, that in the modern day is part of their soul crystal, hence why our Avatar seems to be anchored to ours before we even pick the thing up. So even if voidsent contracting and consort usually uses aether manipulation (which we don't know for sure either), they found a way to have it not do that.

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In a way, that side story about Zenos shoving a crystal into his hand was a bit foreshadowy.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

The reason why they're different in civilizations, knowledge, structures, perceptions, names, and other things is because of the calamities and any external interventions. But let's say for example that there are two shards untouched by the ascians and mostly by any external interventions excluding Hydaelyn herself. Would they be different? Would people make different decisions and have different names? Would the two shards be different or very identical?

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I think it’s safe to say people present on the shards would be different and have made different decisions. While they are technically parallel dimensions, the shards can easily be thought of as different planets instead. They’ve had 12 thousand years (roughly as long as all of recorded history in the real world) to culturally develop independently. Barring a rare exception, there are probably not even going to be doppelgängers between shards. To look alike you’d have to have the same or similar genetics and the likelihood that the same bloodlines lived, married each other, and produced the same offspring through the millennia on two different planets is pretty low.

Their names could be a slightly different case, depending on their origin. Yoshida and Oda answered a question in a lore q&a one year (2020, I think?) in regards to the naming schemes of moonkeeper names. Their lore says that some of their family names had been passed down from the 1st astral, so it was asked if they were remnants of the time as ancients. And the devs essentially replied that there could be remnants of ancient civilization present in those name choices, tho the people using them wouldn’t necessarily remember where they got them from. So, if some names have a common origin point in the unsundered world, then they could theoretically be shared across shards.

The above is the same logic I apply to architecture, too. If there are ruins originating from the unsundered world that were still intact for at least a time, they could have influenced architectural trends on the shards. It’s my current pet theory for why Limsa and Eulmore are so similar architecturally: they’re both based off some extant design style from the unsundered world. (I doubt it’ll ever be discussed one way or the other, but eh. lol)

The only things the shards all had in common for certain is their geography and (we can currently assume) their initial populations. All culture and genetics would have logically diverged from that point on. Geography would have changed less, but could still be significant just due to the random nature of weather or terraforming by the indigenous civilizations (irrigating their thanalan/ahm areng or strip mining their lakeland/mor dhona, etc). But, as you said, barring failed rejoinings the shards could be geographically identical, in theory.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

This can't be taken as a given. In fact, all evidence suggests otherwise: the WoL and the Crystal Exarch are confirmably more aetherically dense than those in the First (the Scions might, that one gets complicated and can't easily be argued either way), and yet neither of them are gods among men on the First. Ran'jit gives us a run for our money more than once, and the Exarch is no more powerful as a Trust partner than Lyna is.

The lack of voidsent on the Thirteenth might be a matter of the rifts that voidsent use to travel only existing between the Source and Thirteenth; or at least definitely not between the First and Thirteenth. Or it could just be that the First doesn't have the generations and multiple civilizations of institutional knowledge set in motion by immortal ghost wizards that the Source does in Allag and Mhach, so the people of the First just aren't at a level of knowledge where they'd do that as readily. (Especially because they've already got Sin Eaters all over the place, why do they need the Sin Eaters' goth cousins?)

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I think it's a matter of capacity more than capability.

Ran'jit beat us in CAPABILITY. They could do more with significantly less, and, I would guess, probably would have lasted WAY less than we would have. The WoL could, in theory, outlast Ran'jit, but the issue is that Ran'jit, from decades and decades of training and refinement, had figured out how to do way more than we ever could in a single moment at this point in our lives. And the Exarch explicitly used up a massive amount of his power in maintaining the spells of the crystal tower itself I think.

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Originally Posted by shadowclasper

I think it's a matter of capacity more than capability.

Ran'jit beat us in CAPABILITY. They could do more with significantly less, and, I would guess, probably would have lasted WAY less than we would have. The WoL could, in theory, outlast Ran'jit, but the issue is that Ran'jit, from decades and decades of training and refinement, had figured out how to do way more than we ever could in a single moment at this point in our lives. And the Exarch explicitly used up a massive amount of his power in maintaining the spells of the crystal tower itself I think.

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Okay, then explain the bears. The wolverines, the fuath, the hobgoblins, the Ronkan constructs, the trilobites... I could go on but I think you get the idea.

I was using very direct comparisons, but your assertion that the reason Ran'jit could match us was because he was a master of combat requires every single thing on the First to also be a master of combat, because your logic would say that otherwise, the average level of things on the First would be significantly below the average level of all of Eorzea. And... well, it's not. Not one single part of Shadowbringers says that we are a superhero in this world of mere peons; in fact, everything says pretty much the opposite. We also have the persistently present example of Ryne; Ryne is also from the First, but spends most of Shadowbringers doing just fine alongside us. If your theory was true, she'd basically be a level 13 walking around in level 75 dungeons.

We've also got the flipside: when we go to Elpis, we fight just fine. The Studium fishing quests do confirm that even the regular wildlife there is more aetherically dense than in the present day, so by your logic it should be full of the hardest things we've ever had to fight... and it's just not. They're keeping pace with Thavnair's regular wildlife. Labyrinthos' lower levels are stronger.

The only source in the story declaring anything like 'more aether equals more better' are the Ascians; every single other piece of evidence that could be brought in says that's just not true, and given the fact we keep kicking the Ascians' asses I don't think even their evidence holds water. I think what actually happened there was that the Ascians latched on to aetheric density as an essentially arbitrary heuristic to declare themselves superior and all those sundered shards inferior. "We have to be better than these creatures, and we also have more aether, so clearly that's the reason our lives hold more value." Ancient techniques might be able to use more aether, but that doesn't seem to do them any good against us.

EDIT: Also, if this were true then voidsent would be completely nonthreatening, because they also come from a shard and so by your theory are lesser than Eorzean wildlife.

clearly something way back in the past went different and sent the world in a different direction. Just look at our own history there an numerous points in which had things gone differently we'd be living in a very different world today.

The writing surrounding aetheric density doesn't feel very consistent. The Ancients are established as having their extremely long lifespans, creation magic, and proportionally immense size on account of it, but despite having over 50% of their density, people on the Source are interchangeable from those on the shards. For a while, I thought the explanation might just be that rejoinings only increase the overall quantity of aether on the source and don't actually make the existing people more "complete", but then there was that line in 5.1 about how exceptionally aetherically dense the Scions are compared to the denizens of the First. But then... They're still able to use dynamis, regardless? And then you have that comment from Yoshi-P about how reborn Ancients will probably just have some extra special powers but otherwise be normal, and it's like. What was making them immortal, then, exactly?

It feels like the writers were going for more of a rough vibe off-the-cuff than something meant to be mechanically analyzed.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

The writing surrounding aetheric density doesn't feel very consistent. The Ancients are established as having their extremely long lifespans, creation magic, and proportionally immense size on account of it, but despite having over 50% of their density, people on the Source are interchangeable from those on the shards. For a while, I thought the explanation might just be that rejoinings only increase the overall quantity of aether on the source and don't actually make the existing people more "complete", but then there was that line in 5.1 about how exceptionally aetherically dense the Scions are compared to the denizens of the First. But then... They're still able to use dynamis, regardless? And then you have that comment from Yoshi-P about how reborn Ancients will probably just have some extra special powers but otherwise be normal, and it's like. What was making them immortal, then, exactly?

It feels like the writers were going for more of a rough vibe off-the-cuff than something meant to be mechanically analyzed.

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I mean, you should answer this one in a more figurative and allegorical sense above all; the Ancients are clearly intended to be godlike figures, so they have godlike physical qualities that disappeared once the Sundering happened and they weren't gods anymore. Similarly, we're not gods among inferior beings in Shadowbringers because that's just not the story they were telling. So any explanation kinda has to work backwards from those points; the story must work first and foremost, so whatever explanation we come up with must therefore allow both of those stories to still work first and foremost.

So with that, I think the best explanation I've got is that the Ancients were just literally a different species entirely, living in a completely different environment. Remember that their model is unlike any in the present world; they've got the 'hyur head, elezen frame' that the Garleans have, but without the third eye. (Also, they're enormous, there's that too.) Also keep in mind that even in the present world, lifespans range pretty hard; it's pretty well-known that elezen lifespan is 120 years and viera are in the 200 range, but as I recall miqo'te are the low end of the range at about 60. So there's not really anything dissuading the reading that they were just a different, now-extinct species. Perhaps one that's not really capable of being sustained in the less aetherically dense environment, so they gradually either died and were replaced by, as mentioned in a developer Q&A, sundered souls desperately yearning for aspects they either remembered having or want.

The Ancients were just a different species, one that was 12 feet tall, lived a very long time, and could use creation magic to turn aether into pretty much whatever they wanted.

That last one is key I think, the Ascians rank aetheric density so importantly because it was very very useful to them.
It's much less relevant to the modern races because none of us can use it the same way.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I mean, you should answer this one in a more figurative and allegorical sense above all; the Ancients are clearly intended to be godlike figures, so they have godlike physical qualities that disappeared once the Sundering happened and they weren't gods anymore. Similarly, we're not gods among inferior beings in Shadowbringers because that's just not the story they were telling. So any explanation kinda has to work backwards from those points; the story must work first and foremost, so whatever explanation we come up with must therefore allow both of those stories to still work first and foremost.

So with that, I think the best explanation I've got is that the Ancients were just literally a different species entirely, living in a completely different environment. Remember that their model is unlike any in the present world; they've got the 'hyur head, elezen frame' that the Garleans have, but without the third eye. (Also, they're enormous, there's that too.) Also keep in mind that even in the present world, lifespans range pretty hard; it's pretty well-known that elezen lifespan is 120 years and viera are in the 200 range, but as I recall miqo'te are the low end of the range at about 60. So there's not really anything dissuading the reading that they were just a different, now-extinct species. Perhaps one that's not really capable of being sustained in the less aetherically dense environment, so they gradually either died and were replaced by, as mentioned in a developer Q&A, sundered souls desperately yearning for aspects they either remembered having or want.

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Though I don't dislike this explanation, it's inconsistent with Varis, Emet, and Alphinaud all taking it as a given than the denizens of the Source, once fully Rejoined, would be equivalent to Ancients in various conversations leading into and during Shadowbringers. You could brush one off as the character being unreliable, but all three saying the similar stuff does make it seem like that was what the writers intended at the time.

I get the allegory and think it works for what it is, but I think trying to rationalize it fully within the setting kinda a fools errand. It's obvious in retrospect - especially with the Famicon interview - that they were kinda writing the Sundering stuff by the seat of their pants, changing little bits of the framing and the facts as the narrative demanded and hoping people wouldn't nerd out about it.

Also, where did you get the thing about Miqo'te from? I thought the only player races they've stated to have anything but human standard lifespans were Elezen and Viera.

My own conception of aetheric density is that while rejoining increases the density of one’s soul, the world itself still places those souls in bodies that remain 1/14 Sundered. We don’t have records after the calamities of people living longer lifespans, nor is their any indication that people are getting noticeably better at wielding magicks. When Yoshi P said that Emet and Hyth when reborn would just be a little better at things than everyone else, the implication seemed clear. The soul is Unsundered yet the body wouldnt be anything special. Combine that with Emets line about being stifled by his flesh (which he took from a random citizen of the 1st), the fact Ardbert was able to hold his own against us despite us being 7 times Rejoined, the Ascians and their “uplifting,” all the comments on our weak aether in Elpis and Amaurot etc. etc.

I unfortunately can't cite the miqo'te lifespan thing, it's just something I heard in RP from a friend who generally has their facts straight RE: miqo'te lore. I kinda take their word on that and move on, because my interests are elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

My own conception of aetheric density is that while rejoining increases the density of one’s soul, the world itself still places those souls in bodies that remain 1/14 Sundered. We don’t have records after the calamities of people living longer lifespans, nor is their any indication that people are getting noticeably better at wielding magicks. When Yoshi P said that Emet and Hyth when reborn would just be a little better at things than everyone else, the implication seemed clear. The soul is Unsundered yet the body wouldnt be anything special. Combine that with Emets line about being stifled by his flesh (which he took from a random citizen of the 1st), the fact Ardbert was able to hold his own against us despite us being 7 times Rejoined, the Ascians and their “uplifting,” all the comments on our weak aether in Elpis and Amaurot etc. etc.

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Yeah, this one tracks for me; even if a fully unsundered soul is in a body on the Source, they're still in a body that's a fundamentally different species with different abilities, so they can't make full use of what the Ancients could. They'd also be being raised and learning how to manipulate aether in a world that's largely used to far smaller aether reserves. As comparison, imagine if random cars suddenly had nigh-infinite fuel; theoretically it's possible to make a car that can use that for amazing feats, but realistically you're gonna end up watching the same old Toyotas you always see doing basically the same stuff Toyotas always do, they're just worrying less about where the nearest gas station is.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I unfortunately can't cite the miqo'te lifespan thing, it's just something I heard in RP from a friend who generally has their facts straight RE: miqo'te lore. I kinda take their word on that and move on, because my interests are elsewhere.

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I've heard the miqo'te thing over and over in RP and no one can point to where they got it from in-game and just reference another RPer or a discord. That's one of those "facts" that people often cite that has no actual reference in-game or in any interview or supplementary material but continuously gets passed along and repeated. Same with "mixed-race children are their mom's race", which was invented to explain why someone's half-elezen character looks like a 100% hyur.

Koji had said in an interview from 2014 that 4 of the 5 original races have the same lifespan as we do on Earth except for elezen, and that also explains why it takes a little longer for elezen to reach their adult height. Eorzea is a rough place though so we're still working with medieval period life expectancy for the average person. He said he doesn't expect the average person to live longer than 30s, 40s, or 50s.


Back on topic, I don't think the whole "rejoining of the soul" is very well explained in the game and it's painfully obvious it was tacked onto the plot after the fact. Every rejoining doesn't increase your lifespan or else we would have heard about it in records or after the most recent calamity or from the story that leads into the 8UC. You would think that a group of people plus G'raha would have made a comment about any sort of change within them after experiencing 2 calamities but we don't hear of it. We would also have known about it from G'raha and all of the Scions on the First since the people on the First are just 1/14th, but again nothing. But at the same time it's a bit weird that as soon as all the rejoinings are complete, we'd all be "whole" 20ft-tall Ancients again at the same power level. A part of me wonders if it's not that simple and that a lot of that idea is Ascian propaganda fed to Varis in order for him to do what they wanted him to do.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Back on topic, I don't think the whole "rejoining of the soul" is very well explained in the game and it's painfully obvious it was tacked onto the plot after the fact. Every rejoining doesn't increase your lifespan or else we would have heard about it in records or after the most recent calamity or from the story that leads into the 8UC. You would think that a group of people plus G'raha would have made a comment about any sort of change within them after experiencing 2 calamities but we don't hear of it. We would also have known about it from G'raha and all of the Scions on the First since the people on the First are just 1/14th, but again nothing. But at the same time it's a bit weird that as soon as all the rejoinings are complete, we'd all be "whole" 20ft-tall Ancients again at the same power level. A part of me wonders if it's not that simple and that a lot of that idea is Ascian propaganda fed to Varis in order for him to do what they wanted him to do.

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Again, it's not just Varis. Emet spells out the same concept late in ShB.

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Originally Posted by Emet-Selch

Remember, you are of the Source. Unlike the halfmen here, you stand only to gain. Should you survive the remaining calamities, you will become our equal. A complete existence in a complete world.

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This is during his moment of vulnerability when he almost addresses you as Azem right before you take the elevator in Kholusia, so I doubt they intended him to be talking out of his butt.

I think (big emphasis on the think lol) that post Rejoining Zodiark would the one to set things back to what they used to be. Those still alive on the Source would be sacrificed as per Emet stated plan, and the now freed Ancients would be granted new life and I assume new bodies. Those who joined the Ascians beforehand, as he clearly tried to get us to do, would also get the same I’d think.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

I think (big emphasis on the think lol) that post Rejoining Zodiark would the one to set things back to what they used to be. Those still alive on the Source would be sacrificed as per Emet stated plan, and the now freed Ancients would be granted new life and I assume new bodies. Those who joined the Ascians beforehand, as he clearly tried to get us to do, would also get the same I’d think.

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I suppose that's possible, yeah.

The other way you could hodgepodge this all together would be if there was a kinda 'tipping point' where once both the body and soul were fully Rejoined, they would go "Oh wait! I remember what I'm supposed to be!" and snap all the way back to Ancient-hood all at once, like finishing assembling a broken machine. So just having an Unsundered soul in the Sundered world wouldn't be enough.

But both of these sort of feel like doing the story's work for it to me.

(Another manner I guess you could interpret the situation would be that people from the Source are closer to Ancients than they initially appear. Setting aside Ran'jit, who seems to get his supernatural powers from the relationship with his weird dragon spirit thing, magic does seem less prominent in the society of the First versus in Eorzea. You don't really encounter many spellcasters, and the Ronkans, their version of the Allagans, have far more subdued, simplistic magitech. There's no evidence of whole societies of wizards like what emerged during the War of the Magi either.

We know from a couple bits of casual dialogue that being a magic user in this setting can allow you to increase your lifespan by a lot; Ququruka Tataruka is over a century old and still looks like a young Lalafell. Maybe being aetherically dense doesn't lead directly to quantifiable gains in physical strength and vitality for everyone, but instead specifically increases the amount of people with an innate ability to use magic, and makes it easier for those who do. So anybody could learn to do it regardless of their aetheric density, but they'd have to rely more and more on things from their environment, like how non-Ancients have to use reagents to conjure things instead of doing it from pure aether. Individuals can rise high, but civilizations on a broader scale are constrained.

So the Ancients wouldn't be special or stronger by virtue of their biology, but rather because their aetheric density was so high that the rate of what people in Eorzea would call gifted mages, and what in the First would be a once-in-a-generation prodigy, would be basically 100%, with that fact permeating their culture. So kids would learn how to purge their bodies of illness and aging in school, while in Eorzea those techniques are constrained to the most reclusive masters.

Again, though, pure fanwank on my part.)

I always pictured Zodiark as being key to restoring everything. The Ascians rejoin the shards, Zodiark magics all the Ancient souls into new Ancient bodies, and together everyone prepares enough life to go through with the 3rd sacrifice.
Without Zodiark though, I can't really see anything happening.

It's like baking a cake innit, it's not enough to just dump the ingredients in a bowl, you've got to follow that up by switching the oven on and putting your cake-to-be in it.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Same with "mixed-race children are their mom's race", which was invented to explain why someone's half-elezen character looks like a 100% hyur.

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Mostly unrelated, but this one actually does have something resembling evidence, because the two most known examples of mixed-race children in canon (Hilda and Arenvald) are both their mothers' race with some visual traits from their fathers'. Granted, sample size of two there, but works well enough as an answer for 'which race do I pick when making a mixed-race character'.

(Some people are definitely doing it because they're COWARDS who want to play a pointy-eared elf but don't want to go through the effort to make an elezen look good, but that's not really a lore question.)

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Mostly unrelated, but this one actually does have something resembling evidence, because the two most known examples of mixed-race children in canon (Hilda and Arenvald) are both their mothers' race with some visual traits from their fathers'. Granted, sample size of two there, but works well enough as an answer for 'which race do I pick when making a mixed-race character'.

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I don't take limitations of the game in showing off characters as concrete evidence. It was definitely easier to plop a uniquely-made face on top of an existing body rather than make a whole new body by scratch. There's nothing at all to suggest that genetics work differently here than they do in our world (except for miqo'te and viera, which I'll get to in a second) so I wouldn't see why a "real life" half-elezen wouldn't look half-elezen instead of "hyur, but with slightly pointy ears". That whole thing was debunked in Shadowbringers anyway since we have Severa, a half-Garlean who looks 100% Garlean except her third eye is black instead of white and her mom is a hyur. Up until that point, we didn't even know half-Garleans could have third eyes.

Garleans themselves are another example of how you shouldn't take character models at face value because half of them use midlander bodies and the other half use elezen bodies and we're never told why that is and there doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it except that there seems to be more female characters using midlander bodies and more male characters using elezen bodies. Though there are some male midlander body users like Jullus and Midas (Cid uses a midlander skeleton under a unique model but he's still a foot and a half shorter than Nero and Gaius) and female elezen body users like Livia, Lucia, and Nael.

Being a mixed-race person in the setting is so rare to begin with that we don't have anything to go on except for character models and basing anything off that feels like an excuse to RP something a certain way more than something that's based in actual lore. Unless it's actually written down anywhere, I won't believe it.


Segueing into the main topic though, this reminded me that there is one unexplained difference between the people of the Source and the people of the First. On the First, the mystel (their version of miqo'te) have an equal ratio of male to female. That makes me wonder about how the miqo'te equivalents are like on the other Shards and if they're more like the ones on the First or if they have a really unbalanced gender ratio like the ones on the Source. It also makes me wonder if the writers treated this as another piece of lore from 1.0 (and carried over from FFXI) that they'd rather just retcon or at least just forget about and they're just doing their own thing now.

Considering what Emet said in his big Spoilers for future story events, we should probably expect the shards to be far different from what we seen in the First and Source.

Due to many possible differences in each shard we may find a Shard more technology focused, more pure magic focused, and maybe even one that is literally just modern day society where no magic exists like our world but with FF14 races.

A lot of possible outcomes that "may surprise us" as Emet said.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Considering what Emet said in his big Spoilers for future story events, we should probably expect the shards to be far different from what we seen in the First and Source.

Due to many possible differences in each shard we may find a Shard more technology focused, more pure magic focused, and maybe even one that is literally just modern day society where no magic exists like our world but with FF14 races.

A lot of possible outcomes that "may surprise us" as Emet said.

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Oh god we go the 12th and we see the area intro text pop up and it just says “New York”

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Oh god we go the 12th and we see the area intro text pop up and it just says “New York”

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That will be a bit funny.

Still if they go the route that one shard is literally just Earth but with FF14 races then I can only guess they go the classic anime trope of it taking place in Tokyo. Even giving us access to FF14 version of Akihabara.

Even giving our character access to the Square Enix Cafe located in Tokyo. Got to try their special made potions after all.....

https://64.media.tumblr.com/e0261101...b506863070.jpg
https://img.mipon.org/wp-content/upl...5-768x1024.jpg

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

That will be a bit funny.

Still if they go the route that one shard is literally just Earth but with FF14 races then I can only guess they go the classic anime trope of it taking place in Tokyo. Even giving us access to FF14 version of Akihabara.

Even giving our character access to the Square Enix Cafe located in Tokyo. Got to try their special made potions after all.....

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"come! we must defeat ifrit once again!"
wakes up with a headach.

Given they don't keep getting slapped with civilizational resets due to the rejoinings, you would think that the shards would be more advanced than us on the whole. 12'000 years is a long time.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Given they don't keep getting slapped with civilizational resets due to the rejoinings, you would think that the shards would be more advanced than us on the whole. 12'000 years is a long time.

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Shards drift in and out of sync with the Source (about a hundred years passed on the First between 3.4 and 5.0), so twelve thousand years may not necessarily have passed in the shards. Also keep in mind that they didn't have nearly as much Ascian meddling and manipulation, which was the usual source of leapfrogging tech on the Source with civilizations like Allag and Garlemald.

Twelve thousand years is a long time, but keeping in mind that civilization was not purely contiguous in the First (Ronka and Nabaath Araeng confirm at least two pre-Flood fallen empires), and that we don't actually know how far the Sundering knocked civilization down the proverbial tech ladder, I can buy twelve thousand years if they were knocked down to 'figuring out agriculture' levels, which is entirely plausible. Especially since Norvrandt isn't even at its peak when we visit (Crystarium aside, the Crystarium is cheating); it's entirely possible that the Flood wiped out most major population centers, and Eulmore just happened to be the biggest thing left standing.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Shards drift in and out of sync with the Source (about a hundred years passed on the First between 3.4 and 5.0), so twelve thousand years may not necessarily have passed in the shards. Also keep in mind that they didn't have nearly as much Ascian meddling and manipulation, which was the usual source of leapfrogging tech on the Source with civilizations like Allag and Garlemald.

Twelve thousand years is a long time, but keeping in mind that civilization was not purely contiguous in the First (Ronka and Nabaath Araeng confirm at least two pre-Flood fallen empires), and that we don't actually know how far the Sundering knocked civilization down the proverbial tech ladder, I can buy twelve thousand years if they were knocked down to 'figuring out agriculture' levels, which is entirely plausible. Especially since Norvrandt isn't even at its peak when we visit (Crystarium aside, the Crystarium is cheating); it's entirely possible that the Flood wiped out most major population centers, and Eulmore just happened to be the biggest thing left standing.

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Lets not forget they had airships and trains and a giant elevator. Should speak about them being generally more advanced back during their peak.

I would think that even with no interference from the Ascians, the shards would have still drifted apart.
Subtle differences in their positioning in the Rift would undoubtedly caused slight differences in aetherflow, weather, etc.
Which in turn would have caused minor choice differences early on that would lead to different timing on procreating, which would lead to an entirely different population by the next generation.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

The other way you could hodgepodge this all together would be if there was a kinda 'tipping point' where once both the body and soul were fully Rejoined, they would go "Oh wait! I remember what I'm supposed to be!" and snap all the way back to Ancient-hood all at once, like finishing assembling a broken machine. So just having an Unsundered soul in the Sundered world wouldn't be enough.

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This is implied via dialog from Alisaie in ShB: "The starshower didn't awaken me to Hydaelyn's voice. But that vision of the Final Days, of Amaurot burning... It filled me with sadness to the very pit of my being. Things I once knew, people I once loved, promises I once made... It felt as though long-forgotten memories were dancing at the edges of my mind. But when I try to focus on them, they simply fade away. An effect of having a fractured soul, I shouldn't doubt."

I believe the idea was once the Source was rejoined the Ancients would regain themselves. Not to mention sacrificing rejoined Ancients is counterproductive to their goal as we know their souls would become trapped within Zodiark.

Edit: It's possible the Ancients were deriving their power directly from the star somehow, so even if their souls are whole as long as the star remains sundered they'll be unable to return to their previous Ancient form.

we also have to consider the factor of magical abilities within each Shard. The Shards may also have different level of magical skills to a point one shard may focus more on technology due to no magical abilities or magical abilities are rare while certain shards may fall more into pure magic due to having greater amount of magical abilities in their population or influence from magical abilities despite numbers.

This is only one factor that may contribute to how shards develop differently as well.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Oh god we go the 12th and we see the area intro text pop up and it just says “New York”

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The twelfth was rejoined with the Second Umbral Calamity. But it's a really interesting idea.

The Second, Third, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Tenth, and Twelvth shards have all been rejoined. The Thirteenth was effectively destroyed. Setting aside the First, we still have yet to explore the Fourth, Eighth, Ninth, and Eleventh. If even one or two of these are 'full-sized' worlds on the same scale as Etheirys, you'd have more than enough landmass to write future expansions for years and years to come. It would be fun if, on the eventual final resolution of the story down the line, they revealed that one of those shards was just Earth, with its' playerbase being long lost Azem reflections. You could hand over a PS5 controller. 'Take it, we fight as one!'

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Given they don't keep getting slapped with civilizational resets due to the rejoinings, you would think that the shards would be more advanced than us on the whole. 12'000 years is a long time.

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i'm hoping we visit a shard at some point that is really futurstic, something like esther from ff8.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

The twelfth was rejoined with the Second Umbral Calamity. But it's a really interesting idea.

The Second, Third, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Tenth, and Twelvth shards have all been rejoined. The Thirteenth was effectively destroyed. Setting aside the First, we still have yet to explore the Fourth, Eighth, Ninth, and Eleventh. If even one or two of these are 'full-sized' worlds on the same scale as Etheirys, you'd have more than enough landmass to write future expansions for years and years to come. It would be fun if, on the eventual final resolution of the story down the line, they revealed that one of those shards was just Earth, with its' playerbase being long lost Azem reflections. You could hand over a PS5 controller. 'Take it, we fight as one!'

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Ha figured someone would know better, honestly just took a random shard and guessed lol.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Ha figured someone would know better, honestly just took a random shard and guessed lol.

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Honestly, which shards went down is basically a perfect lore trap. Because as long as you remember that the First and Thirteenth are accounted for it doesn't really matter, but because it was stated at some point it's something you can theoretically be wrong about.