Remove the Mentor crown

Like the title says, I think SE should remove the mentor crown.

This is really a band-aid fix to a bigger problem, which is that the requirements for achieving the mentor status are really easy and have little to do with your experience across a wide array of content.

Nevertheless, I think it would be a positive and simple change. Mentors receive a good amount of harassment in this game, which I don't think is ever warranted. Mentor or not, if someone is being rude or just acting clownish in general, two wrongs don't make a right, and its simple enough to blacklist them and move on.

That being said, I have never experienced any kind of harassment from being a mentor. I simply just don't wear the crown. I enjoyed the exp boost when it was relevant for me, and I get a kick out of reading NN chat; that's pretty much my whole mentor experience.

You don't need a crown beside your name to help new players. Furthermore, the crown has such a bad reputation in this game(even to new players) that they aren't going to ask mentors for help anyways.

And finally, removing the crown would eliminate the portion of mentors who only got the status to have the icon next to their name.

*Yes, I did write this in response to another post I saw about mentor harassment*

But then how do you find the right player to blame? It can't be that sprouts' fault, right?! Yeah! It has to be that mentor!

/s

Give into your birth right and wear the burger king crown well whining about the mechanics something or another well harassing and doing nothing but whining the entire run and then go to the forums and claim harassment because you are harassing other players well wearing a burger king crown! It is your destiny!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

But then how do you find the right player to blame? It can't be that sprouts' fault, right?! Yeah! It has to be that mentor!

/s

---

fr
had a labyrinth run with entirely sprouts and one of the tanks kept intentionally pulling the last boss off 1 to the centre and even with bongos we wiped.

when me and the other two mentors tried to explain they just threw insults at us saying "that's how i've always tanked it" and we kept trying to remind them that even if they're not the new one, most of the others are and that gives people the few seconds they need. they insulted and cursed at me, i told them to shut up and stop giving sprouts bad advice and they tried to act as if i was the one instigating this and began this holier than thou "oh i thought you were supposed to be a mentor? smh" nonsense. thankfully the entire alliance was on my side and called them out but, still. goddamn.

The mentor system actually works great... in the JP servers. ... it's unfortunately VERY at odds with the individualistic culture we have on the NA servers (potentially the EU but I do not play there so I couldn't comment).

What we need is to remove the "rewards" for doing it and make it purely voluntary. That way only people who want to help for the love of helping will do so (yes these people exist) and possibly find a less ostentatious symbol to mark those who wish to volunteer. Maybe have it become a "list" you can bring up for the area you're in that just lists participating members instead of giving them a symbol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

But then how do you find the right player to blame? It can't be that sprouts' fault, right?! Yeah! It has to be that mentor!

/s

---

I'm almost positive a mentor burned my toast this morning, ruining my breakfast. The nerve!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

The mentor system actually works great... in the JP servers. ... it's unfortunately VERY at odds with the individualistic culture we have on the NA servers (potentially the EU but I do not play there so I couldn't comment).

What we need is to remove the "rewards" for doing it and make it purely voluntary. That way only people who want to help for the love of helping will do so (yes these people exist) and possibly find a less ostentatious symbol to mark those who wish to volunteer. Maybe have it become a "list" you can bring up for the area you're in that just lists participating members instead of giving them a symbol.

---

Really? I didn't know that the system worked well on JP. This probably says something bad about us on NA, but anyways thanks for sharing. And about removing rewards; unfortunately having an icon next to your name, for some people, is a reward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

But then how do you find the right player to blame? It can't be that sprouts' fault, right?! Yeah! It has to be that mentor!

/s

---

You jest but it's true LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HayaW

Really? I didn't know that the system worked well on JP. This probably says something bad about us on NA, but anyways thanks for sharing. And about removing rewards; unfortunately having an icon next to your name, for some people, is a reward.

---

i have an entirely separate account for playing JP (... don't ask) and people are more than willing to listen to advice over there. i also don't know about EU but NA has big "you don't pay for my sub" energy. the entire reason why they had to make a set of rules that states you can't just pull willy-nilly in dungeons or do the opposite and refuse to do your job is entirely because of the NA side of things. people just get really, really, REALLY upset here if you tell them what to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HayaW

Really? I didn't know that the system worked well on JP. This probably says something bad about us on NA, but anyways thanks for sharing. And about removing rewards; unfortunately having an icon next to your name, for some people, is a reward.

---

Not necessarily bad, just a very different culture. If you look at it objectively the cultures have their advantages and disadvantages and it really depends on what you personally value as to which one is "better".

Yeah.. the icon is a problem so , as I suggested, either make it something less... rewardy.. like a watering can or maybe the "old driver" symbol from japan. .. or remove it entirely and just put people on a list.

I think what you meant to say is "remove the western culture that is self centered and selfish and just a gigantic meme at this point". It's not a problem with the system but with the people that use it and thus the solution would be punishment, regulation and heavy moderation.

The western/NA mentors made the crown into a meme. JP is totally fine with it. NA culture is self centered and selfish in general. And you can observe that everywhere, be it early pulling people in Bozja or Eureka or people using the shout/yell chat in hubs for their conversations and shitchats, for whatever reason. On JP you don't see that happening at all.

A watering can icon would be adorable and very fitting IMO.

- change the crown into a watering-can
- give no special rewards for being a mentor

I was a mentor for many years before the system was introduces in FFXIV. You dont need incentives for people helping

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ranaku

people using the shout/yell chat in hubs for their conversations and shitchats

---

What exactly is the problem with chatting in shout besides JP not doing it? It's not like this isn't acceptable on NA servers. It's how we communicate when we're sitting around cities crafting, waiting for something to spawn, just vibing, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

What exactly is the problem with chatting in shout besides JP not doing it? It's not like this isn't acceptable on NA servers. It's how we communicate when we're sitting around cities crafting, waiting for something to spawn, just vibing, etc.

---

nothing.
i see jp people do it all the time, i have no idea what they're going on about.

I think they should put an “I” which stands for “Information” instead of the crown
also they need to remove titles/mounts

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ranaku

I think what you meant to say is "remove the western culture that is self centered and selfish and just a gigantic meme at this point". It's not a problem with the system but with the people that use it and thus the solution would be punishment, regulation and heavy moderation.

The western/NA mentors made the crown into a meme. JP is totally fine with it. NA culture is self centered and selfish in general. And you can observe that everywhere, be it early pulling people in Bozja or Eureka or people using the shout/yell chat in hubs for their conversations and shitchats, for whatever reason. On JP you don't see that happening at all.

---

Yah, someone already mentioned this about NA culture. And its true, "you can observe it everywhere." It's possible that removing the crown in NA would make toxicity more widespread from a lack of somewhere to direct it. But like I said, its a band-aid fix. I don't know how to fix NA culture, but I don't think "punishment, regulation and heavy moderation" is the solution. People are creative, and they will find a way to act out poorly within the boundaries given. You can see this with the new pvp chat; how long did it take ppl to start sarcastically spamming Nice Job! Good Match!

Sadly they won't remove the crown since there are achivements tied with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

What exactly is the problem with chatting in shout besides JP not doing it? It's not like this isn't acceptable on NA servers. It's how we communicate when we're sitting around cities crafting, waiting for something to spawn, just vibing, etc.

---

The "vibing" sadly is just most of the times on the same level as the good old world of warcraft chat game where you take the name of a skill and the a word. It's a good example of how different japanese and western culture is. But the game is developed by japanese devs even if they take some inspiration and advice from western audiences their culture is still foreign to them and that way there will be always such misused things.

Like the wintrading that was plaguing feast, something that wasn't a thing on JP. Like the mentor system that is more a meme. The chat being a complete mess and spamming nonsense through the aether is just another example of how western culture is more a meme than a functional society. Which is, don't get me wrong, not bad at all but people always act so surprised when systems get misused and turned into the worst possible outcome, which is funny cause it happens everywhere all the time so people should be used to it by now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denji

nothing.
i see jp people do it all the time, i have no idea what they're going on about.

---

a big difference when the japanese shout in their hubs/cities is that they start it off usually with シャウト失礼します、 or "excuse me for shouting," and it's usually to announce an event or recruit for something (fc/pf/etc.)


another big difference is that they don't spam that same message, usually once every two hours or something, they don't use it for conversing with another person and if they ever do it's very rare

The crown was always a mistake.

������Mentor Name

Is the better option. Someone to fertilise and nurture the sprouts, rather than rule over them.

I've always been down for a watering can icon rather than the crown, since sprouts are sprouts.

I also agree that they should remove the rewards; there should be no incentive to be a mentor other than simply wanting to be there to help other players, I feel like.

What would replace the mentor crown?

The crown helps you to understand who is a veteran player, just like the sprout icon helps you to understand who is a new player. People without the crown are somewhere in the middle of that.

They should give mentors a burger king crown they can glamour!

The crown plus the mentor rewards need to go. Mount can be moved somewhere else.

In Light DC (EU) I think it's generally fine. Can't say about Chaos. It's more about 3rd parties who spread the negative news and reflect that on all the mentors no matter which data centres they are from

I usually hide the crown because i don't like the look of it.
The rewards are fine though, there need to be an incentive to make mentors queue for the roulette so sprouts using df for ARR ex trials don't have to wait forever for the duty to open.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astyrah

a big difference when the japanese shout in their hubs/cities is that they start it off usually with シャウト失礼します、 or "excuse me for shouting," and it's usually to announce an event or recruit for something (fc/pf/etc.)


another big difference is that they don't spam that same message, usually once every two hours or something, they don't use it for conversing with another person and if they ever do it's very rare

---

yeah but it's really hard to not apologize in japanese and you can't even say thank you without borrowing サンキュ because otherwise you're not actually thanking them you're apologizing for taking up their time/effort OR you're using the wrong thank you for the wrong situation/person and auaugh

sorry, had a flashback there.

I would be down for a star by your name for mentor status. Where each type of mentor status has its own color of star.

Most important rule in a mmorpg is being friendly with other players. If you do so as a mentor no problems with the mentor crown will happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loonies

Most important rule in a mmorpg is being friendly with other players. If you do so as a mentor no problems with the mentor crown will happen.

---

^ This

As a Mentor, I always answer player who ask question. If I see a player doing bad things in dungeon, I ask him if I can make him a suggestion. If I got a negative response or being ignored, then fine, I don't say them what to do until they realise the mess they are doing. But if he's receptive to help or suggestion, then I suggest him what to do without forcing him to do so. They even get a commendation after the dungeon for they will to learn.

The Mentor Crown is only bad if the player who wear it is bad. As a Mentor, you are a representative of the FFXIV Community, you are here to help all those sprout, not harass them. If you don't want to help them properly, don't wear your crown. You can help them without your crown too, but that would be a waste towards the true Mentor community.

I've never been harassed as a Mentor ever. New player sometimes can be rude, exactly like some Mentors are, but that's just how human works, everyone think differently.

But remember that having this crown doesn't mean you are an elite player. You just have a lot playtime on the game which allow you to help player you make the first step in Eorzea. I've seen countless Casual Mentor that have a way better mentality towards sprout than "Hardcore Player" Mentor who don't give a s**t or insult them for just being bad.

Most mentors which i saw got no idea how to play own class or how to do mechanics in dungeons / trials. Sometimes even i would say that sprout is more knowledgeable than a mentor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

But then how do you find the right player to blame? It can't be that sprouts' fault, right?! Yeah! It has to be that mentor!

/s

---

One has an icon that say "I might fail the mechanic" and the other has an icrown that say "I will fail the mechanic".

If you remove it how will sprouts q into extremes through DF? :p
Real talk lets also remove the Legend titles. I've seen a few of them being mean, so removing it just like the letter Z would help a lot.

1500 commendations is easy to do only if you beg for it everytime, otherwise no.
And mentors do need to experience a wide array of content, or you're telling me you can blaze trough the base game + 4 expansions in a day or two? Please, we both know your arguments are weak.

In a Zepla video, I saw her suggest that the mentor crown should be changed to a 'watering can' which is fitting, considering the role is to nurture the sprouts and help them.

I really don't think the crown icon is necessary for mentor at all, but considering people have already worked for it; SE should just change it to an achievement cosmetic for our usernames.

I still remember in OSRS everyone wanted to be a in-game moderator, just for the crown next to the name because it was just a status to obtain. A lot of people seem to want the status, but not the responsibility.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

What would replace the mentor crown?

The crown helps you to understand who is a veteran player, just like the sprout icon helps you to understand who is a new player. People without the crown are somewhere in the middle of that.

---

Patently false considering how easy it is to gain mentor status if you actively make an effort to obtain it. A sprout could look up what they need for it, work on it their whole way through the game, and immediately become one not long after hitting level cap.

Meanwhile some people who have been playing since 1.0 don't have it, simply because they don't want it. A crown doesn't indicate a veteran (it's easy to obtain for anyone), just as a sprout doesn't always indicate a new player (alts exist).

Mentor icon needs to go, as well as rewards. If you want to actually help and teach others, you can do that without a stupid crown by your name. The watering can suggestion is nice, but the sad truth is most on NA/EU will become a mentor specifically for any kind of 'nameplate glamour', no matter what it is. And then we just have the exact same problem all over again.

Icon needs to go, rewards need to go. It baffles me that they think they need to tie a reward to simply helping people. That's its own reward, seeing people take your advice or obtain new knowledge you've shared and pass it on to others. If that isn't enough for someone, then they shouldn't really be calling themselves a mentor.

The shape of the icon is not what makes it attractive it's the relative rarity. The only time the icon should be visible would be if the mentor queued via mentor queue. The list of registered mentors is a great idea and gets back to the spirit of the system. Move the mount to some other achievement. If there has to be a reward make it a 'gold watch'. Yes I'm well aware that wrist glams get hidden quite often.

Alternatively make the crown a "veteran crown". Give it to anybody who's got Tank, Heals, and DPS to level cap.

Having played WoW for over a decade, I can safely say the majority of players are bang average and aren't in a position to give advice to anybody else. The same applies in FFXIV and when you look at the entry requirements for being a mentor, it's basically a participation trophy for people that started in earlier expansions with there being no skill requirement.

If the mentor system was skill based, it would only be for people clearing Savage and Ultimates which would dwindle down the pool of mentors quite drastically. Not to mention some people still buy clears and if I'm being entirely honest, do we want the "hardcore" raiding mentalities often shown in higher level gameplay being the entire mentor player pool of the new players of all skill levels? That's not a bash on high level players, you guys rock, but it wouldn't fix the system.

I think at this stage, it's just easier to remove the system. You don't need to be a mentor to give good advice or bad advice plus you can then avoid people having the crown for the wrong reasons. There's people that just have it as a participation trophy because they started long enough ago to have naturally met the full entry requirements. You also have players that just have it to farm the mount reward from the mentor roulette queue which certainly rears it's ugly head with a few high profile mentors that are also partnered Twitch streamers (the ones that get really upset when their mentor roulette queue is an 8-man piece of content because it's probably an old extreme).

The good mentors that actually want to help people don't need a badge, title and mount reward to keep doing that if they truly want to help people. The player base is much larger and different in comparison to when this system was first implemented, removing a poorly aged system wouldn't be bad for the game but rather just reflects where we're at today. As for the mentor roulette mount, make it a reward elsewhere or throw it on the cash store, I don't really think it matters where it ends up if the mentor system was removed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeminiReed

The shape of the icon is not what makes it attractive it's the relative rarity. The only time the icon should be visible would be if the mentor queued via mentor queue. The list of registered mentors is a great idea and gets back to the spirit of the system. Move the mount to some other achievement. If there has to be a reward make it a 'gold watch'. Yes I'm well aware that wrist glams get hidden quite often.

Alternatively make the crown a "veteran crown". Give it to anybody who's got Tank, Heals, and DPS to level cap.

---

Hard disagree on the "veteran crown". Most players are bang average and if we're giving a special badge to people that level a few different jobs, which you can do in a completely brain dead way, it doesn't solve the problem. The new and returning player icons are fine before it just signals someone is getting back into the game but anything else doesn't need to exist. Trade mentor is a joke you can get by copying and pasting from a guide (that's how I level DoH/DoL) and battle mentor is just a participation trophy, neither indicate actually knowing anything about the game and lowering the barrier would only make it worse.