Rampant cheating in PVP?

I just got killed twice by Seiton Tenchu while being at max health.
I've heard of mods which change your MP Regen, warn you of Sam's LB etc.

Is anything going to be done about cheating in PVP?

Were you at 50% HP at any point because the moment the NIN uses LB is the only moment that counts and no amount of healing between the cast and the attack registering wont matter :p Also yes cheats are rampant everywhere and there are threads everywhere about them but nothing has been said from SE side as far as I know :(

I was playing a WAR, and definitely over 50% twice, which is why I found it so odd...
Not even sure how I'd be able to report something like this... ;(

Believe you cant report fellow pvp members from a match yes dont know why this is tbh

I dashed away from a warrior after they chained me, then they chained me again, i dashed again, they chained me, then i run out of dashes...

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Originally Posted by AndyMugu

I was playing a WAR, and definitely over 50% twice, which is why I found it so odd...
Not even sure how I'd be able to report something like this... ;(

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People have been using add-ons to auto-NIN LB someone the instant they drop below 50%, so being in the kill range for even a fraction of a second is enough time to die.

someone just showed me this it's even worse then you think.

<name> is a fully automated PvP combat routine. An ACR that finally focuses on the truly important parts of FFXIV, the PvP. The real content. 8-)

An ACR that aims to improve on the basic format of 'use skills on the target'. Automatically taking into account important details like target HP, their buffs, surrounding targets, how many of your allies are targeting a person, and whether or not they're in execute range.

Also featuring many quality of life features like smart targeting, a hotbar that makes it so you no longer need to fight the ACR to get skills in, a counter that shows you the number of people currently targeting you, and making usage of addons like Argus to draw lines to your healers that turns red if they're out of line of sight.

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Its fully reactional and basically you don't have to do anything anymore. just move around with your character the rest is done perfectly for you.

They've had similar programs for PvE forever, so it branching out to PvP felt like it was just a matter of time.

It's branching out because SE is not using the ban hammer enough.

I hope there will be no warning for those cheaters when they get caught one way another. Just straight up perma ban them... Show them there will be no slap on the wrist for that kind of cheating and people will stop. Right now everyone that cheats expect a small slap on the wrist at worst.

FFS square, just slap battleeye on it

Why do u guys even open this useless threads, they would rather remove ranked before slapping an anti cheat on it, 50% of the community mods their game for various normal things pvp on the other hand is literally fotm and to be forgotten in a month lol

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

Why do u guys even open this useless threads, they would rather remove ranked before slapping an anti cheat on it, 50% of the community mods their game for various normal things pvp on the other hand is literally fotm and to be forgotten in a month lol

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Perfect, by all means, now leave.

I don't think the devs intend to add any kind of anti-cheat, and everyone would probably experience performance issues if they did that. I think a reasonable solution would be implementing battle logs that get recorded server-side, and then when players submit complaints during that match they can review the logs for "illegal" actions. For example, instantly swapping to a low-hp target, consistently and abnormally quickly. Or using skills with precision timing that does not align with normal behavior. Or even very egregious behavior such as using skills that ought to be on cooldown.

They also can look out for players exploiting existing bugs, such as the WHM heal charge bug. OR they could, with the cooperation of modders, get examples of mod behavior that can make it easier to automatically cross-reference from battle logs.

There is just one post about anticheat in this thread and it's the one above your post.


There is more then one way to go about it.
Main problem is:

<name> is a fully automated PvP combat routine. An ACR that finally focuses on the truly important parts of FFXIV, the PvP. The real content. 8-)

An ACR that aims to improve on the basic format of 'use skills on the target'. Automatically taking into account important details like target HP, their buffs, surrounding targets, how many of your allies are targeting a person, and whether or not they're in execute range.

Also featuring many quality of life features like smart targeting, a hotbar that makes it so you no longer need to fight the ACR to get skills in, a counter that shows you the number of people currently targeting you, and making usage of addons like Argus to draw lines to your healers that turns red if they're out of line of sight.

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Its fully reactional and basically you don't have to do anything anymore. just move around with your character the rest is done perfectly for you.
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Thing is that SE put in allot of resources to create something, with this going on it will be for nothing since people will start to avoid the mode in like you said a month or so.
I agree on not using anti cheat for the simple fact that it cripples the whole community not just the pvp croud.

There are other ways around it but that would take allot of continuous resources, question would be is it worth?
It's worth if SE has the goal to push this to e-sports, if not and it's just a mode to enjoy then I would say no but if it's a no they should remove rewards for ranking up.
This way there is no use for exploiting leaderboards since there is nothing to gain other then flexing on other people, and lets be honest nobody cares.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

FFS square, just slap battleeye on it

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Attach any type of anti-cheat engine, and watch an substantial amount of the userbase mass-exodus.

So many people cheat in this game, they wouldn't be able to play without them.

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Originally Posted by verdres

reasonable solution would be implementing battle logs that get recorded server-side, and then when players submit complaints during that match they can review the logs for "illegal" actions

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I think that is simply just too much work, only their SpecialTaskForce does that and they don't have that many of them and only do it when there are tons of reports. Would be easier if they can develop an AI that detects those patterns compared to using human resources, which are just too expensive for all those games.

They should shift ranked mode probably into party vs party only and not have it in solo anymore. Cheating will be less effective against coordinated teams and SE only would have to really check those games and not every solo game, which is a lot less trouble to deal for their GM's.

And they should probably let at least 2 people queue up together for the normal/unranked queue, I can imagine many people who would like to play with at least 1 friend.
In The Feast you were able to as well and there were only 4 people in a party.

partying up is fun thing that I agree should be implemented.
thing is that pre-mades will wreck non-pre-mades, so put them together.
2+3 pre-made vs 2+3 pre-made or even 5v5, but dont put non-premade vs pre-made.
People will be on discord coordinating their attacks vs people that just need to go on visuals which makes it really unfair.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

I think that is simply just too much work, only their SpecialTaskForce does that and they don't have that many of them and only do it when there are tons of reports. Would be easier if they can develop an AI that detects those patterns compared to using human resources, which are just too expensive for all those games.

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Yeah, that's exactly the kind of situation where a client side anticheat can actually work wonders. Sure, it's possible to circumvent them but serious products can update themselves on the fly while the game runs. The client integrity checking code that they use can be randomised, and changed whenever they want, and that makes it much harder to defeat durably. It would be better if there was also some server side validation, wow for instance despite having authoritative clients movements (which feels a lot better for the player), have the server detects some type of anomalous movements on the server side (with some well known false positive that result in instant disconnections, mostly involving gliders), but even in the absence of this a good client side anticheat is a lot better than nothing.

Something like battleye is very turnkey, the integration is pretty painless and then they send you the IDs of player who have been detected to cheat, they can even preemptively ban them (by preventing the client from starting when battleeye connects) so you can verify the reposrts and decide what to do with them (perma ban them, give them a warning, have your own policy regarding re-offence, etc). I'm sure other similar anticheat solutions are equally easy to implement. Heck, I'm sure that you could enable it only during pvp duty for the sake of harmless mods used outside of pvp.

The downside is that it's costly. But it's not like they can't afford it. I'm going to assume that whatever reason they offer for not doing that is window dressing for "we don't feel like investing money to solve the problem"

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Originally Posted by CptBuckyOhare

thing is that pre-mades will wreck non-pre-mades

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I dunno I gotta say I'm tired of hearing this excuse repeated infinitely by anyone who thinks people shouldn't be able to party up in a mode with 5v5.

You can get wrecked by WAR/WHM so we should stop WHM/WAR from pairing up.

You can get wrecked if someone has better macros for coordinating their team than you.

We can get wrecked by not having a tank/healer so if they can't have one, don't even start the match.

We can get wrecked by hackers and cheaters so don't even play the mode.

These all or nothing approaches provide no open possibilities for "fun" and/or change. At the end of the day I'd rather lose with my friends having fun making our glams be dwarves than be stomped by bots AND have to do it alone.

its a matter of advantage or not it's simple logic, just because you are tired of hearing it doesn't mean it's less true.
Go rant somewhere else :D

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

You can get wrecked by WAR/WHM

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yeah, now imagine a WAR and WHM in sync in Discord, add it a SAM and a DRG holding their LB to team up.

premades vs no premades with this PvP system will win 95% the games.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Would be easier if they can develop an AI that detects those patterns compared to using human resources, which are just too expensive for all those games.

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Definitely agree, at a glance it seems like a very efficient solution. Depending on how predictable bot/addon behavior is, they could even flag a specific sequence/timing of actions to get a good idea of who to scrutinize.

Don't think it's that easy there is a fluctuation in the timing because of latency i think?
But I sure hope they can do something like that yes.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

yeah, now imagine a WAR and WHM in sync in Discord, add it a SAM and a DRG holding their LB to team up.

premades vs no premades with this PvP system will win 95% the games.

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But again you're acting like good players don't already do that. THat's why the LB <%> quick chat is a thing. I know because I've watched it happen and coordinated it with people.

If people want to make excuses they can but just going "if they can talk to each other it will ruin it" makes it where we might as well nerf any/all communication in the mode at that point if that's what we're worried about.

I'm just saying if we're going to say "But they can TALK to each other! That's no good!" then I have some bad news for you in a lot of other pvp games/lobby games lol. At least when you have to deal with screaming 13 year olds you can tell them what you're doing and where you're going.

Without more Quick Chat options or without premades this will eventually become unfun to even the most avid PVP fans because every match will be losing regardless of organization to either hackers or whm/war/rdm/drg/sam mobs anyways.

If I'm going to lose, I'd like to at least lose while having fun with friends. Nothing that you can do while in a discord call is something you can't currently do (to varying degrees of success and vagueness) with macros/quickchat/etc. It's just the current quick chat options are garbage compared to just about every other pvp offering on the market.

Other people actually caring enough to coordinate doesn't change the fact that many people will just ignore team collab efforts to go 1v5 the crystal for the 4th death in a row because they can't read "fall back and regroup" the 6th time you spam it.

What you are saying is on the casual side of things, in high elo every advantage is an advantage and voice communication is a big one and has been proven time after time.
You can disagree all you want and make big posts and all but it doesn't change the fact.

voice comms is overrated. Most valuable is knowing what to do and when, in any pvp game. And in FF14, that does include syncing LBs, which does not need voice comms at all. In addition to the quick chat, you can see every LB status (even enemies') on the party frames.

Conversely, if you've got someone that's bad with you in discord, telling them "let's LB together" won't help much. They'll probably whiff or get the timing a bit off if that's what they're prone to doing anyways.

it's a thing, mainly the in-game communication only gives you the ability to call out things you want. In voice communication can be way more elaborate.
i.e in 10 sec's i'll be here attack this then switch here or going to faint attack switch to whm etc.
You get the point and ofcourse communication is a skill, so going on discord with people that aren't good at it doesn't really help.
But in higher skill levels it sure matters.

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Originally Posted by CptBuckyOhare

it's a thing, mainly the in-game communication only gives you the ability to call out things you want.

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So quick chat should be nerfed then yeah? No coordination because that's a skill? No target macro either to help your team burst because that would be unfair. Can't have the LB status because saying LB at 90% is essentially the same as giving a timer for when your LB will be up.

Communication matters in team fights because that's what you're supposed to do in team fights, I'm not going to make up excuses for this game's pvp mode, especially when cheating/class balance is where it's at, because of some arbitrary line drawn about "fairness."

If you want to limit premades to Casual instead of ranked, I'd at least understand (it'd still be stupid). But saying that because people can talk to each other when the current list of issues in pvp are:

1. Win Trading
2. Bots/Scripting
3. Busted Classes
4. People queuing up together anyways
5. Lack of specific quick chat options to allow better team coordination that 90% of other pvp games provide.

comes off as fear mongering for no reason.

People act like you will somehow get stomped less and that it's an all or nothing concept, but there's plenty of ways to balance this out as games like League have shown.

To think that "lack of communication is a feature not a bug" is, in my opinion, a daft take. But I can tell that's not going to change peoples minds.

I can't for the life of me figure out why people would root for lack of playing with friends/FC mates in a game that's literally built around co-op/multiplayer but to each their own.

Just because quick chat is a similar advantage to voice chat doesn't mean they are the same and ought to be both accepted or rejected. You may as well argue that the devs should remove "attacking [target]" macro because in theory all other players might listen and focus one player. Talking as if this issue has a binary solution is ridiculous and wastes everyone's time.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

So quick chat should be nerfed then yeah? No coordination because that's a skill? No target macro either to help your team burst because that would be unfair. Can't have the LB status because saying LB at 90% is essentially the same as giving a timer for when your LB will be up.

Communication matters in team fights because that's what you're supposed to do in team fights, I'm not going to make up excuses for this game's pvp mode, especially when cheating/class balance is where it's at, because of some arbitrary line drawn about "fairness."

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Do you even read? I am not saying anything like that. What in your mind made my sentence sound to you like it should be removed or nerfed for that matter.
All I am saying is that voice has a big advantage against non voice users.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

I can't for the life of me figure out why people would root for lack of playing with friends/FC mates in a game that's literally built around co-op/multiplayer but to each their own.

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If you wan't to have fun with friends just play custom matches, but I do agree being able to team up and que with friends would be nice.
But if so make it pre-made vs pre-made and don't mix them with non-pre-made

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Originally Posted by CptBuckyOhare

someone just showed me this it's even worse then you think.

<name> is a fully automated PvP combat routine. An ACR that finally focuses on the truly important parts of FFXIV, the PvP. The real content. 8-)

An ACR that aims to improve on the basic format of 'use skills on the target'. Automatically taking into account important details like target HP, their buffs, surrounding targets, how many of your allies are targeting a person, and whether or not they're in execute range.

Also featuring many quality of life features like smart targeting, a hotbar that makes it so you no longer need to fight the ACR to get skills in, a counter that shows you the number of people currently targeting you, and making usage of addons like Argus to draw lines to your healers that turns red if they're out of line of sight.

----
Its fully reactional and basically you don't have to do anything anymore. just move around with your character the rest is done perfectly for you.

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Why redact? Are you afraid that you would get busted using it as it seems you have been doing...Nice way of trying to cover you butt

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

So quick chat should be nerfed then yeah? No coordination because that's a skill? No target macro either to help your team burst because that would be unfair. Can't have the LB status because saying LB at 90% is essentially the same as giving a timer for when your LB will be up.

Communication matters in team fights because that's what you're supposed to do in team fights, I'm not going to make up excuses for this game's pvp mode, especially when cheating/class balance is where it's at, because of some arbitrary line drawn about "fairness."

If you want to limit premades to Casual instead of ranked, I'd at least understand (it'd still be stupid). But saying that because people can talk to each other when the current list of issues in pvp are:

1. Win Trading
2. Bots/Scripting
3. Busted Classes
4. People queuing up together anyways
5. Lack of specific quick chat options to allow better team coordination that 90% of other pvp games provide.

comes off as fear mongering for no reason.

People act like you will somehow get stomped less and that it's an all or nothing concept, but there's plenty of ways to balance this out as games like League have shown.

To think that "lack of communication is a feature not a bug" is, in my opinion, a daft take. But I can tell that's not going to change peoples minds.

I can't for the life of me figure out why people would root for lack of playing with friends/FC mates in a game that's literally built around co-op/multiplayer but to each their own.

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the win trading. bot/scripts are running rampant now. when folks are getting polyed out of a primal rend even before the animation spinup that is a problem.

there have been a couple of times when I was going to kill a target and I hit them for 0!! and they just sprinted away. I know their guard was down and it should have been a kill.

I think the biggest problem presently is that CCing someone immediately after they trigger seemingly any ability results in it being put on cooldown without doing anything.

I think they need to adjust the timing of PvP abilities to ensure that their effects go through no matter what to prevent add-ons from exploiting this fact, because it's getting pretty stupid when they can interrupt basically anything that's considered problematic enough to warrant it.

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

Why do u guys even open this useless threads, they would rather remove ranked before slapping an anti cheat on it, 50% of the community mods their game for various normal things pvp on the other hand is literally fotm and to be forgotten in a month lol

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that's a lie!!! more like you do not know the % of how many ppl use mods or addons so stop with that....

I don't know if it would be considered cheating, but I had a strong suspicion tonight that someone (or someones) was fishing for the rest of their team in a couple of matches. No real proof, but the counter would get to 9/10 and suddenly someone withdraws. Then it happens again, and again, before the match finally starts. And I've started noticing that sometimes the same folks are on the same team together, yaa if it's my team, boo if it's not.

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Originally Posted by Wolffriend

I don't know if it would be considered cheating, but I had a strong suspicion tonight that someone (or someones) was fishing for the rest of their team in a couple of matches. No real proof, but the counter would get to 9/10 and suddenly someone withdraws. Then it happens again, and again, before the match finally starts. And I've started noticing that sometimes the same folks are on the same team together, yaa if it's my team, boo if it's not.

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If people can draw information about what instance they're being queued into for roulettes via add-ons, it wouldn't surprise me if who they're being queued with is also available somehow.

In which case, yeah, that would be cheating.

Is it possible to segregate console players from PCheater players? Competitive play is more enjoyable when you are not at a disadvantage. The rampant cheating for PC players is frustrating for console players. We cannot downloads overlays, bots etc.. It is possible in other games to turn off match making in crossplay. Please add that feature.

Hi. I read a lot about cheating/modding in here, but I really can't tell whether that is a serious issue or it's an overblown reaction and almost nobody is using it.

So how did y'all get this feeling/info that people are cheating everywhere?