They need to make Crafting rely on buttons again

As the title states. Crafting needs to actually rely on the buttons and Condition again. Just like how Expert Crafts for Firmament were when competing. At current, Condition is useless and does nothing for the state of crafting. We have skills that are based off what Condition you currently have. But everyone just melds to a point that they Macro Craft base mats, then macro craft the final product. Not only would this breathe new life into the Crafting side of the game. But it would also stop third party users and bots from clogging the MB because they are never logged out and crafting 24/7. Otherwise without these changes, they might as well take Condition out (Which the way they keep dumbing things down with every new patch it seems, this might just become a thing. Which I hope it doesn't). The last time I actually had fun with crafting was during Firmament Competition to get my title against everyone else. It made you pay attention to what you were doing and actually KNOW what you were doing.

Abusing condition is good for leveling and for 100%ing crafts when you don't have macro-tier stats.

I do think crafting should be harder though, everyone just macroing everything is really lame and makes it so one of the more unique things about this game may as well not exist.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Abusing condition is good for leveling and for 100%ing crafts when you don't have macro-tier stats.

I do think crafting should be harder though, everyone just macroing everything is really lame and makes it so one of the more unique things about this game may as well not exist.

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Good for leveling? I got bad news for you lol ANYBODY leveling now just uses Firmament because it's overly absurd when it comes to giving out EXP to level. And from 80-90 you can easily spam Leve turn ins or craft like Ingots and get those 10 levels.

But something needs to be done. Like I said any randomness in the crafts (like Experts) would make these third party bots not be able to stay on 24/7 flooding aspects of the game and most importantly on top of that would breathe new life into making Crafting fun again

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Originally Posted by Lecru

Good for leveling? I got bad news for you lol ANYBODY leveling now just uses Firmament because it's overly absurd when it comes to giving out EXP to level. And from 80-90 you can easily spam Leve turn ins or craft like Ingots and get those 10 levels.

But something needs to be done. Like I said any randomness in the crafts (like Experts) would make these third party bots not be able to stay on 24/7 flooding aspects of the game and most importantly on top of that would breathe new life into making Crafting fun again

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No thank you. The hidden issue with this is I don't want to spend seventeen hours crafting things I have proven time and again able to craft. The whole system is a bit silly anyways. Sure, the minigame is fun, but it's ultimately a puzzle. What's wrong with a puzzle? Well, the thing is when you solve it, you're done. So just spam the answer. If I have to essentially show my work for the same answer over and over, I think you can see why that would grow aggravating. This is incidentally why other games often don't go for this angle except for maybe one that I know of. And that one's dead.

Sure, I agree crafting is too easy and I wish there was a way to deal with it, but if asking me to turn a 30s craft into a 2 minute craft per when I have to make an entire stack is the answer? Get another one. Honestly, I'd sooner vote for nuking the Firmament, but that's neither here nor there.

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Originally Posted by Lecru

As the title states. Crafting needs to actually rely on the buttons and Condition again. Just like how Expert Crafts for Firmament were when competing. At current, Condition is useless and does nothing for the state of crafting. We have skills that are based off what Condition you currently have. But everyone just melds to a point that they Macro Craft base mats, then macro craft the final product. Not only would this breathe new life into the Crafting side of the game. But it would also stop third party users and bots from clogging the MB because they are never logged out and crafting 24/7. Otherwise without these changes, they might as well take Condition out (Which the way they keep dumbing things down with every new patch it seems, this might just become a thing. Which I hope it doesn't). The last time I actually had fun with crafting was during Firmament Competition to get my title against everyone else. It made you pay attention to what you were doing and actually KNOW what you were doing.

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We should make it a rhythm game like that scene from SAO abridged with that one chick Smithing and add in Devil May Cry style music in the background when you get high scores.

It wouldn't stop botters at all. They can program bots that can play the entire game by itself. The complexity of using different skills based on some logic optimization would be child's play.

Crafting macros have always existed.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

It wouldn't stop botters at all. They can program bots that can play the entire game by itself. The complexity of using different skills based on some logic optimization would be child's play.

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I was seeing bots speed-crafting expert recipes by the time the second Firmament rankings rolled around, so they definitely can program logic scripts to solve the variables on expert recipes.

I don't think it's a stretch to say most of the people who grinded out the pteradactyl did not do it through legitimate means judging from how many of the owners on my server routinely bot FATEs, DoL nodes and other content.

Yeah it seems they did. Watched some guides from all the way back to HW since I wanted to see few things about ARR end game crafting and well... Macro, macro, macro...

Macros have always existed, they always will exist unless you significantly over-tune the recipes and their difficulty -- Nobody will churn out consumables en masse when each of the crafts is essentially an expert recipe. If anything, Ishgard Restoration has taught us that macros or not, it won't stop botters. The game is not the same as it was in Heavensward or even Stormblood for that matter. Bots will flood the markets as much as they so please, the game is a lot more popular now than it once was.

You know what I find fun? Creating my own macros based on my own stats. So if they forced all crafts to be non-macro I’d actually lose some of what I enjoy. It feels satisfying when I can create a skill set that does what I need without as much effort. I then can optimize it as I watch it going to see what I can replace and what I can improve. But that’s me.


That being said I do enjoy the expert crafts, just wish they had less items to them but minor complaints that don’t really matter. It would be nice to see them come back in that island thing.

Stopping bots seems like a good argument for stopping macros from being workable.

I don't personally macro anything when crafting, but I don't craft much. I do like the changes though because I was overwhelmed with buttons before Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by Lecru

As the title states. Crafting needs to actually rely on the buttons and Condition again. Just like how Expert Crafts for Firmament were when competing. At current, Condition is useless and does nothing for the state of crafting. We have skills that are based off what Condition you currently have. But everyone just melds to a point that they Macro Craft base mats, then macro craft the final product. Not only would this breathe new life into the Crafting side of the game. But it would also stop third party users and bots from clogging the MB because they are never logged out and crafting 24/7. Otherwise without these changes, they might as well take Condition out (Which the way they keep dumbing things down with every new patch it seems, this might just become a thing. Which I hope it doesn't). The last time I actually had fun with crafting was during Firmament Competition to get my title against everyone else. It made you pay attention to what you were doing and actually KNOW what you were doing.

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If it's not broke don't fix it ..... crafting is fine as is and without macros crafting 2 , 3 , or 4 stars are mostly impossible. Melding up gear to make crafting possible is a skill. It is so satisfying to make a macro that works. I saw a macro that needed to much GP so I made my own that didn't need as much GP and it works. I would never afford a house if I didn't use macros. I don't use the firmament to level up I use leves. I believe leves are much faster than Ishgard and leves are at all levels.

When it comes to valuable items like gear and glam, I can see the point of wanting a crafter to "prove" their ability before it becomes macroable. Turning the first craft of a starred item into a difficult expert-style recipe might be interesting.

But to do it every time you craft the item, especially stuff like food or potions? No thanks.

I have no problem with macros, but being able to churn out Master Recipe gear should involve more investment, rather than being something pretty much anyone can do by leveling in a few days, throwing a nominal sum of gil at the mb for gear and going nuts. Materia rains from the sky nowadays too.

Crafting in general is dead and neglected. It just exists to provide casual players with cheap endgame gear, pots and food via bots.
There are no Expert crafts this patch, the new DoH set doesn't even serve a purpose besides shaving a step or 2 off your Classic gear macro. But that's worthless on the mb too so there's no point in making endgame items to sell. The new Custom Deliveries will as usual just exist for a little story, scrips are faster to farm with collectibles. The new gathering set is detrimental because it spiritbonds slower.

There's just nothing to do with crafting that's fun. You hit max level within days, then there's no endgame. Even a new patch or new set is done and over with on week 1. The whole thing is in a dire state.

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no ty

getting rid of macros wont stop the bots.

the only way to stop the bots is to remove the market for their gil selling. ban the buyers... the bots will become less of an issue if no one is buying from them.

Once receipe is solved by the minimal stat you need to succeed, the whole crafting now becomes a chores and spamming maros that is 100% to succeed. With all due respect, we might as well just add condition crafting for 1st time crafts, then let us just hit craft button and viola, item crafted, just like wow, new world and all other games.

the problem with crafting is how easy to lvl and farm materia is right now, imo "cheap melds" rotations should not exist and being able to 100% HQ crafts without using at least 75% HQ materials should be made impossible even with max melds

I kind of wish there was a premium crafted gear tier which requires obscene amounts to get the materials for (comparatively anyway) and is expert level in crafting difficulty, but in the end, you'd get gear that is on part with the limited tome gear at that patch.

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Originally Posted by Lecru

Good for leveling? I got bad news for you lol ANYBODY leveling now just uses Firmament because it's overly absurd when it comes to giving out EXP to level. And from 80-90 you can easily spam Leve turn ins or craft like Ingots and get those 10 levels.

But something needs to be done. Like I said any randomness in the crafts (like Experts) would make these third party bots not be able to stay on 24/7 flooding aspects of the game and most importantly on top of that would breathe new life into making Crafting fun again

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Getting HQ at low level without using good condition is difficult, and getting good leve turn ins requires HQ, so....

Balancing the game around bots is bad. Just ban the bots instead of inconveniencing legitimate players who don't want to repeat the same process but differently x99 times.

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Originally Posted by Lecru

As the title states. Crafting needs to actually rely on the buttons and Condition again. Just like how Expert Crafts for Firmament were when competing. At current, Condition is useless and does nothing for the state of crafting. We have skills that are based off what Condition you currently have. But everyone just melds to a point that they Macro Craft base mats, then macro craft the final product. Not only would this breathe new life into the Crafting side of the game. But it would also stop third party users and bots from clogging the MB because they are never logged out and crafting 24/7. Otherwise without these changes, they might as well take Condition out (Which the way they keep dumbing things down with every new patch it seems, this might just become a thing. Which I hope it doesn't). The last time I actually had fun with crafting was during Firmament Competition to get my title against everyone else. It made you pay attention to what you were doing and actually KNOW what you were doing.

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Bots were solving Expert Crafts during Firmament progress. You're a bit naive if you think your proposed changes will do anything to the bots on the marketboard. They'll only impact the player crafters relying on macros shared by others.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it doesn't solve the bot situation.

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

We should make it a rhythm game like that scene from SAO abridged with that one chick Smithing and add in Devil May Cry style music in the background when you get high scores.

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Would you say that it would get you.... M O T I V A T E D?

OP, players will always follow the path of least resistance, and they can't make expert level crafting the norm. Granted, crafting can always be improved to incentivize players to actually learn how to do it, opposed to just looking up a macro, and hitting the stat requirements to be able to use it.

Speaking for myself, I don't ever use macros. Crafting for me is constantly a game of completing a 100% quality item in the fewest amount of steps. This means looking for and taking advantage of the various conditions. When you mass craft this way, you actually reduce the amount of time it takes to complete your session. Trying to get max collectability on expert level crafts would cost me around around 15 minutes (duration for a crafting medicine) to do two expert level crafts, or 3-4 in the time it takes for a food effect to expire. If this was demanded for just normal or even master book crafting, it would put me off of it for sure. I would imagine other players as well.

Dont miss rng and the eye bleeding greed driven prices of the old days. Glad its dead and gone..

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Originally Posted by Lecru

As the title states. Crafting needs to actually rely on the buttons and Condition again. Just like how Expert Crafts for Firmament were when competing. At current, Condition is useless and does nothing for the state of crafting. We have skills that are based off what Condition you currently have. But everyone just melds to a point that they Macro Craft base mats, then macro craft the final product. Not only would this breathe new life into the Crafting side of the game. But it would also stop third party users and bots from clogging the MB because they are never logged out and crafting 24/7. Otherwise without these changes, they might as well take Condition out (Which the way they keep dumbing things down with every new patch it seems, this might just become a thing. Which I hope it doesn't). The last time I actually had fun with crafting was during Firmament Competition to get my title against everyone else. It made you pay attention to what you were doing and actually KNOW what you were doing.

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Don’t bother trying to ask for Harder crafting here. You’ll just get hit with “crafting was never hard” or “you just want it to be exclusive to elitists” or “I don’t have time for that” over and over again. This community has a sort of hatred/intolerance for people who actually prefer crafting to require more effort and thinking power. Here, Reddit, other forums of ffxiv, they literally all have the same insecurity and hatred towards it. When really it’s just a projection of them being afraid of crafting going back to how it used to be in Heavensward and A realm reborn. Where you basically could not mindlessly spam a macro to get the job done, you actually had to spend 2-3 minutes a craft…which also made things more pricey but it was worth it.

Trust me, I want more intuitive crafting but this community will always project their insecurities about it, hate it, and just play it off as “it was never hard” or “it’s tedious” when in reality, it actually used to be very time consuming, that’s what *made* it hard. So just don’t bother with these people, it won’t go anywhere.

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Originally Posted by CrayonsAndPaint

Don’t bother trying to ask for Harder crafting here. You’ll just get hit with “crafting was never hard” or “you just want it to be exclusive to elitists” or “I don’t have time for that” over and over again. This community has a sort of hatred/intolerance for people who actually prefer crafting to require more effort and thinking power. Here, Reddit, other forums of ffxiv, they literally all have the same insecurity and hatred towards it. When really it’s just a projection of them being afraid of crafting going back to how it used to be in Heavensward and A realm reborn. Where you basically could not mindlessly spam a macro to get the job done, you actually had to spend 2-3 minutes a craft…which also made things more pricey but it was worth it.

Trust me, I want more intuitive crafting but this community will always project their insecurities about it, hate it, and just play it off as “it was never hard” or “it’s tedious” when in reality, it actually used to be very time consuming, that’s what *made* it hard. So just don’t bother with these people, it won’t go anywhere.

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You are prime example of whats wrong with both hardcore and casual crafters. The my way or the highway mindset. SE should remove crafting until both sides find a middle ground.

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Originally Posted by CrayonsAndPaint

When really it’s just a projection of them being afraid of crafting going back to how it used to be in Heavensward and A realm reborn. Where you basically could not mindlessly spam a macro to get the job done, you actually had to spend 2-3 minutes a craft…which also made things more pricey but it was worth it.

Trust me, I want more intuitive crafting but this community will always project their insecurities about it, hate it, and just play it off as “it was never hard” or “it’s tedious” when in reality, it actually used to be very time consuming, that’s what *made* it hard. So just don’t bother with these people, it won’t go anywhere.

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What is this take? It's not projection - crafting was easily macroed even back in Heavensward. The only difficult part of the system back then was use of specialists & the grind for materials via the scrip system. I would like it if crafted endgame gear was made via expert crafts from now on, but I won't pretend it ever required any complexity even back then.

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Originally Posted by Lecru

As the title states. Crafting needs to actually rely on the buttons and Condition again. Just like how Expert Crafts for Firmament were when competing. At current, Condition is useless and does nothing for the state of crafting. We have skills that are based off what Condition you currently have. But everyone just melds to a point that they Macro Craft base mats, then macro craft the final product. Not only would this breathe new life into the Crafting side of the game. But it would also stop third party users and bots from clogging the MB because they are never logged out and crafting 24/7. Otherwise without these changes, they might as well take Condition out (Which the way they keep dumbing things down with every new patch it seems, this might just become a thing. Which I hope it doesn't). The last time I actually had fun with crafting was during Firmament Competition to get my title against everyone else. It made you pay attention to what you were doing and actually KNOW what you were doing.

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This is the direction the game is going in. Simplify jobs for the casual audience. So I can't see them realistically making any changes that would make crafting any more challenging. I'm not a hardcore crafter myself, but I do think that crafters deserve some more challenging content.

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Originally Posted by CrayonsAndPaint

Don’t bother trying to ask for Harder crafting here. You’ll just get hit with “crafting was never hard” or “you just want it to be exclusive to elitists” or “I don’t have time for that” over and over again. This community has a sort of hatred/intolerance for people who actually prefer crafting to require more effort and thinking power. Here, Reddit, other forums of ffxiv, they literally all have the same insecurity and hatred towards it. When really it’s just a projection of them being afraid of crafting going back to how it used to be in Heavensward and A realm reborn. Where you basically could not mindlessly spam a macro to get the job done, you actually had to spend 2-3 minutes a craft…which also made things more pricey but it was worth it.

Trust me, I want more intuitive crafting but this community will always project their insecurities about it, hate it, and just play it off as “it was never hard” or “it’s tedious” when in reality, it actually used to be very time consuming, that’s what *made* it hard. So just don’t bother with these people, it won’t go anywhere.

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I'm not sure what is more impressive, the mental gymnastics required to reach a conclusion that people are projecting their own insecurities because they cannot 'handle' the older crafting systems (Which need I might add never actually were difficult in the first place -- Just elongated), or the fact that you seem to have actually convinced yourself that a time-consuming system equivocates difficulty.