Remove "Z" Title

Would you remove, at least temporarily, the "Z" title? That letter is horrifically offensive and violently politically charged today.

My suggestion is to change it to "Zzz..." and be done with it.

....remove what?

You know Z, the letter used by PROTESTERS AGAINST THE WAR who lived in Russia? Because if they said "war" or got caught protesting they'd be tortured and killed?

Guess OP is pro war, or anti protester.


( There's an entire topic discussing it to death, where folks figured out trolls would try it eventually)

aight imma peace out before my head short circuits trying to figure out if this is a troll post.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

aight imma peace out before my head short circuits trying to figure out if this is a troll post.

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Probably is. The actual conversation about it is happening in another thread on the front page, sort of thing that's easy to see.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Probably is. The actual conversation about it is happening in another thread on the front page, sort of thing that's easy to see.

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i uh... never visit the front page so i must have missed it lol. ty for the clarification.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

i uh... never visit the front page so i must have missed it lol. ty for the clarification.

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Don't worry... hay, for real fun... it's been discussed so much that I can predict....


The troll will either abandon this thread completely and try something else somewhere else, or they'll try to double down.

Either by calling me the troll, or by quoting some russian propaganda, or both.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Don't worry... hay, for real fun... it's been discussed so much that I can predict....


The troll will either abandon this thread completely and try something else somewhere else, or they'll try to double down.

Either by calling me the troll, or by quoting some russian propaganda, or both.

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im betting #1 is already happening.

Maybe we should remove people who continue to ask for this.

How many times do we have to state this answer. The answer is no, it will always be no, and the Z stands for Zeta (and is a Gundam Reference). Some Eastern European conflict (That is far from the first and won't be the last, by the way) is no reason to ban an entire letter from general usage. It was also created before the current war and has no association with said war, direct or otherwise, ergo there is no need to remove it even if the devs cared about a conflict that is a third of the world away from them. As for the actual usage of it, it'd be akin to banning a <Ranger> title because a division of the U.S. army is called the Rangers.
And if its being used by protestors against the conflict itself, as ICF0 says, I say that's a reason to keep it around, rather than ban it.
Now stop using god knows how many alts to repost this question every time your thread gets deleted, OP. What is this, the tenth thread on this subject?

Edit on 22 April to get the fact further up the page: When first writing this I had skimmed over the fact that post #3 described the whole thing back-to-front and has set the tone of everything that followed. The conversation seemed a bit off but I didn't realise why.

So, to be clear:

The Z is being used as a symbol of support for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Not by anti-war protestors. That is why people are uncomfortable about it being in the game despite it long predating this unfortunate new use.

That is what I was writing from in this post, in contrast to the preceding posts reacting to the incorrect version of what it represented.

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Original post on 21 April:

Context for those who have missed it in the news:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_(military_symbol)

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

...no reason to ban an entire letter from general usage.

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Aside of the overly dismissive attitude you're taking to the conflict itself, this part of your statement is misrepresenting what is being asked for in this context. It's not about removing the letter from general usage at all, but about removing it from this very specific usage as a standalone letter that can be worn on your character as a sort of badge.

While I am not certain if this particular OP is serious, note that they are asking to alter it to triple-Z so it's not even a matter of asking for the letter to be banned. Other requests have suggested Zeta as an alternative, which I think makes more sense as a link to the achievement anyway, and again does not actually remove the letter.

I am in two minds as to whether changing the title would be a good idea. There's some merit in the argument that shying away from using Z in other contexts is just reinforcing the pro-Russians' claim on it, but also in not wanting to keep something that has become a pro-war symbol. But then perhaps making a fuss over it does more harm than good, and the safest approach is to just not alter it when it was created independently.

Edit to add, because I missed saying it as I figured out how to best word things: I think my personal preference would be changing it to Zeta, but I can see why SE potentially wouldn't want to make a big deal of it.

First of all, for clarification, uhm. The Z is being used as a pro-war symbol. It's painted on the tanks and has been frequently used by Russians to show support for the war. (Or rather, support for their victory; they probably don't want to prolong it, they just want to win it.) That's the actual reason Blizzard made some moves in response. The Guardian's got a good overview, but in short nobody's 100% sure on the exact origin point, although we're all clear on the meaning being used.

I completely agree with both Blizzard removing the Z from Overwatch outfits and Nintendo delaying Advance Wars, but that's actually because they hit closer than they were comfortable with hitting. The Z outfits in Overwatch were not only the exact Z being used on the tanks, but also on the Russian character; that hits uncomfortably close for people and we're better off not having it if we don't have to. Similarly, Advance Wars wasn't postponed because 'it's war and it'd be in bad taste', but because the actual story of Advance Wars is about an obvious Russian-analog making a military push into a westward nation; that's probably not a game you want releasing right now, no matter how obviously Cold War the aesthetic is.

But the Z title in FFXIV... it's just a Z. While I would hardly begrudge the developers changing it to 'Zeta' if they wanted to keep the Zeta Gundam reference while avoiding this, I don't think there's really cause to remove a title that's just a letter unless there's a significant amount of people using it for that. And frankly, I don't think I can remember the last time I've seen anyone use that title at all, so it's probably not being used very hard.

I suppose they could change it to a lower case Zeta. "ζ".

ICf0 is definitely a troll, this one's pretty obvious. And if he's not... well, we cited reputable sources, surely if he's not trolling and has the truth on his side he'll also be able to cite reputable sources.

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Originally Posted by SilverArrow20XX

I suppose they could change it to a lower case Zeta. "ζ".

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That might run into a font issue, perhaps; I'm not sure if the font the game uses for titles actually has a lowercase zeta. Then again, the early Endwalker final zone titles did surprise us with what characters they could use.

they got 25 other letters before Z

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

You know Z, the letter used by PROTESTERS AGAINST THE WAR who lived in Russia? Because if they said "war" or got caught protesting they'd be tortured and killed?

Guess OP is pro war, or anti protester.

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I must have been skimming too much the other day because I didn't realise you have this entirely back to front and everyone else in the thread took it as the accurate version.

It is not a symbol being used by the anti-war protestors but by the pro-war supporters.

And even if, as you claim later, this is all some corruption by the Russians to sweep visible protests under the rug, that's certainly not how it has ever been relayed to us in the media.

It seems that even you are correct in claiming that it began as a protest symbol, which sounds unlikely from the other uses of it (painted on Russian tanks and supported by Russian state media), that understanding has been entirely overwritten both inside and outside of Russia and the anti-war meaning didn't even get reported fleetingly. If they did all that to "take it from the protestors", they have thoroughly succeeded.

Anyone asking for it to be removed from the game at this point is almost certainly concerned at its use as a pro-war symbol.

You guys really need to stop being baited so easily.

You see what you think is the same troll post over and over enough times and you begin to wonder if a portion of humanity really is that stupid.

I must live under a rock in comparison. It feels like just last week it was still used in protests even though folks where disapring. But I guess the propaganda won... wow.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I must live under a rock in comparison. It feels like just last week it was still used in protests even though folks where disapring. But I guess the propaganda won... wow.

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The anti-war protests were not using the Z. If you think they were, I would suggest you find and provide your source for that. Because right now you're looking like a troll.

If they remove Z then they should also remove milk from the game because of racism.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

The anti-war protests were not using the Z. If you think they were, I would suggest you find and provide your source for that. Because right now you're looking like a troll.

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Back at the VERY start, when russia was pretending that it wasn't war, that they wern't invading, and they were not ammassing troops, that's when it was.

And then as early as febuary it was starting to be changed, apprently... yha, I been under a rock apparently.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Back at the VERY start, when russia was pretending that it wasn't war, that they wern't invading, and they were not ammassing troops, that's when it was.

And then as early as febuary it was starting to be changed, apprently... yha, I been under a rock apparently.

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Provide. A source. A link, to any source at all, that says that the Z started as an anti-war symbol. If you're telling the truth, you can find one, because you've found it before.

If you're not, you're just going to keep saying stuff like this without citations and we can ignore you as a troll and move on with our lives.

This thread is stupid.

As an avid fisherman, there is a saying for this sort of post.

Why did they even move this thread to Lore?